Poll: Would you like to see Custom Lore on CoTH?
Mixed feelings (I will post)
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CoTH Presents: Custom Lore (Maybe)
Custom Lore

This was spoken about at the Meet and Greet, headed by our lovely GrakorGETTHENUMBERSOUTOFYOURNAME456.

A recent discussion has us all thinking about custom lore again and, rather than simply discussing it, we've decided to take a step in the direction of making it a possible reality. Now, as clarify, this isn't going to be an excuse to go crazy and pull in alternative universes [WoD pending] and everyone makes up whatever they sneeze out at the time. It will be a group effort to swing the future of the meta-plot in a way that makes sense and enables players to make an active change and leave an impact on the world. The setting is going to remain the same, however the plot and elements of it are what is subject to potentially change. Example being Garrosh actually gets redeemed instead of going all out crazy by the end of MoP and saving that role for someone else. We will not, however, be doing things like a repeat of the Sin'sholai. That is a bit too massive.

The question, as reflected in the poll, is if this is something the members of the server would like to do? There was a positive reception at the Meet and Greet, but not everyone is able to attend to put in their voice and questions. So the option to do so is going to be in this thread. There are a few questions that were asked and I'll repost here so that they don't get repeated.

Will Non-GMs have a hand in making lore?

Yes and no. Players will be free to posts suggestions [not in this thread, please] on what direction they would like the plot to take and discuss it with the GM team. However the choice is ultimately up to the GM team. Now in order to keep a slight element of surprise, we will not be saying every little thing we'll be doing story-wise, however you will be free to make a thread asking about what we currently have going on and give suggestions if you so choose.

What about the Horde/Alliance conflict?

This depends on just how much we're willing/encouraged to change, so it's still largely up in the air with no definitive answer.

How will changes be conveyed?

We hope to run events to show the changes, but we can't do that for every little happening. A mixture of events, forum posts and announcements will be utilized.

Can our characters become lore figures?

No. Characters will not be allowed to rise to the level of a Lore Figure, become King or any such things. However, they may be able to gain recognition by their factions and have that reflected though NPC puppeting, rank and other such things. There is also the possibility of allowing reputation to be earned by opposing faction members, but that depends on question two with the Horde and Alliance conflict.

Will former areas (Outlands, Northrend, BC staring areas) be touched again?

Possibly! Blizzard has no intention of updating them and to break them free of being stagnant would be wonderful. Maybe even reclaiming a few lost spots.

Retroactive Lore?

A few people brought up the question of custom lore of the past. This may be a possibility. However we would have to tread very careful as to make sure we don't accidentally cause a situation where everyone in that time period has to rewrite their profiles to be correct again.

More questions and answers can be seen here.

If you have any further questions, opinions, statements or whatever, post here or drop us a line in the PD!
[-] The following 14 users Like Reigen's post:
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Got my vote~ Sounds fun, don't let out on too much stuff OOCly and if people go in with an open mind that anything can happen (including a defeat) then I reckon it'll make for fun events! I don't got any questions as of yet so yes, short post.
Got my vote...

*climbs back onto the theatre chimera and flies back into his mountain cave*
[Image: Ml7sNnX.gif]
I'm all for backing this idea, it sounds really interesting. Although I do agree that with more than a few things, we'd have to tread carefully.
“Fairy tales do not tell children that dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children that dragons can be killed.”
— G.K. Chesterton

[Image: tumblr_n9hl98KKPd1r4fnslo1_500.gif]

Have a puppy Ruby and a nice day.
Took you long enough, lol.

One way or another, sure, just don't make it stupid please.
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I voted yes, in moderation. I don't think we should change the past for the most part. Best avenue might be to pick a year/event as the turning point, and go from there. And also, since WoD is mostly a trip to the past affair, there just needs to be a plan to introduce the MoP content (Pandaren, Monks, etc). Other than that, I'm all for it!
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Also erm.. Please remember to make a thread or something with all the custom lore so new people could read there what is changed. It'd be very useful.
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Mixed feelings.

I've had bad experiences before, and it would take me seeing how it goes to be firmly yes or no. I tend to not really support "We're the GM's, we'll have control of everything, but you can put your opinion in" because the opinions of the many tend not to really sway anything. That's not on you guys, though. Call me gun shy.
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Mixed feelings for me.
On one hand, I am very excited about all of this but on the other hand... A lot of things will change, this way. I know a lot of you (GMs and players alike) want to see a massive change in Garrosh for example, but if this is going to happen, would the Forsaken still be at war with Gilneas? Or would a workaround to this be found? (Eg, he was afraid that they might join the rest of the Alliance and so he had to take them out before they could do so.) Lore would change and it would be pretty hard for people (mostly new players) to properly get into it all and know what exactly is going on.

On the other hand, I do -love- the idea of things changing according to our actions through RP. Not like we're going to singlehandedly take over Orgrimmar(for example) but if we can convince Varian Chinn to take rally the Alliance enough, we could perhaps take over smaller places like Razor Hill? Or something like that and use that as base to harass Orgrimmar. Or the Horde taking over Goldshire and use that as base to harass Stormwind (these are just examples, mind)
I will not be forgotten. This is my time to shine. I've got the scars to prove it. Only the strong survive. I'm not afraid of dying. Everyone has their time. Life never favored weakness.

Welcome to the pride!
I have some mixed feelings about it.

I like the idea of, that the community itself is capable of developing lore. There have always been some things in the lore, that I would personally love to have switched (Garrosh being an example), but... on the other hand, it can create confusion for the people, and I also believe disagreement can easily arise. So while I... somewhat support the idea, I would like to have it handled with caution.

To me, we shouldn't be mucking around with the main narrative too much, in part because we've done just fine despite it.

I'd rather see the server have Supplimental lore stuff that's on a greater scale than we've previously allowed.
Let's touch on abandoned ideas, like doing something with Gilneas, because that place is so damn pretty and lore-relevant.

Let's explore Titan worship in a way that opens it up into one of those spiffy NPC neutral factions. Give it to humans, gnomes, dorfs, worgen, and even Forsaken. If you want to get really into it, allow elves who discover a trace of human in their lineage to join, too. This would finally give neutral Forsaken somewhere to be other than the Argents.

Let's heal the dead scar. I know only so much can be done without world edits in this regard, but stuff could still be done.

And let's give the Draenei some more Azeroth love. Found a new town or something. They're so... Irrelevant in lore.
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Heavily mixed feelings.

While writing, I feel that Custom Lore is just something that people want to have because they feel that RP is stale. We have how many zones? There's a lot to do, but no one comes up with an interesting story to make an event with the zone they pick. I'm not saying there hasn't been interesting stories already, but there should be more of that instead of discussing Custom Lore right now at this point in time. If we literally did everything we could RP wise on the server and knew we couldn't have access to MoP? I would probably consider it, but that's not the case at all.

I most likely didn't touch everything I wanted to say and probably had a terrible time explaining it. It's really hard to gather my thoughts.

I am not fond of the idea of having people tampering around with Lore. It makes me feel like we're going to end up writing a bad fanfiction. We all have opinions and I feel that it's just going to end up bitter if not everyone agrees with it. If this does happen, for the love of all that's holy, do NOT touch Lore Figures or the big storylines. I always hear the complaining of Garrosh, but no, don't even try with him. You can complain about how much you hate him, but I would be greatly upset, going back to the bad fanfiction idea I mentioned. I'm pretty much not for the whole Custom Lore on that aspect of trying to change/tweak the story or character because PEOPLE feel that it should. It's not your call to do so in my opinion. This is probably because I enjoy what Blizzard has for has without much complaint. I trust in what they're doing, so I don't trust anyone to even attempt their own take on such things.


Custom made factions
Custom made towns
Events in Stagnant Areas like Outland and Northrend
Retroactive Events

With Custom made factions and towns, I feel like a group of people can found such things and give it history. For places, I feel that it shouldn't break the lore in the area where it's located in. For example, you can't have a town in Westfall that's prosperous and bandit free. As for factions, it would be basically like how noble houses work. You can make active storylines and progression with these things.

I would really like to go back to Outland and Northrend, but we'll have to look over what happened and what was end game for each zone perhaps. I feel there would still be conflict of the major enemies in the area, but at a lesser extent to what it was before. Not so much changing it, but to know what's there and what has happened.

We know generally what happened the past, especially in the wars and what not. The events would be a small part of what could of happened. I would really like to RP out the Fall of Dalaran or Quel'thalas. Of course, if anyone has some interesting backstory at that time, they can talk to the DM about what their character did and have it implemented into the event.

Overall, I'm generally for creating things that would have little serious or to no impact on the main storylines of Lore and Lore Figures.
Quote:"Your faction is the underdog right?
You always lose and suck at everything.
You lose towns, people and your second in command is a 14-year old who uses dark magic on his protectors and runs away alone the the wilderness."
- Panoss from the WoW retail forums
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I fully enjoy this plan, but...

Dae Wrote:To me, we shouldn't be mucking around with the main narrative too much, in part because we've done just fine despite it.

This does have a ring of truth in it. We could do a lot of cool stuff about changing Garrosh, Varian, MoP, the war, stuff like that... But it could have the potential to throw a few people off.

I'd like to see that this turns into something good and great - people have always had an element of 'custom lore' in their events and storylines, because despite the awesomeness and following the questlines, it's different than what was 'given' to us, yeah? This would allow for even small ideas to potentially have an impact on not just the group that's involved but also others as well.


I probably couldn't have hit the 'yes' button more times in my entire life.

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  • Kaghuros
//Rigley's Opinion: Rigley's Opinion is not Necessarily Indicative of Overall GM Thoughts or Incoming Policies.//

As someone who's been a proponent of this for a while I'll explain my 'ideal outcome' and my thoughts.

The changes I would pitch are ones that change very little of the outcome of the world. If I had the reigns entirely it'd be less altering the events of the world and more changing the story that's leading up to them.

Garrosh's descent into evil? He didn't just have another shift of character, he was affected by the Sha in Pandaria and it overwhelmed him. His story still comes to the same conclusion. Varian? Make him consistent. Make him brash and combative with the Horde. He can be a competent and supported leader without being a paragon. Make Sylvanas have actual motivation behind her evil-ness, or preferably dial it back so that she's morally gray again.

Turn the faction war into a cold war, where it makes sense- There's no reason to divide forces to fight the horde/alliance conflict in the Twilight Highlands when the land you're fighting over is LITERALLY BEING DESTROYED BENEATH YOU. They can wait until the bigger threat is taken care of before duking it out for the remains. On the other hand the nelf/orc conflicts continue unabated; one faction taking a truce for the greater good doesn't demand that all their allies do as well. The Warsong and Silverwing factions are probably going to fight until one is just gone, after all.

I guess in short I'd say the idea is as so: We're not looking at rewriting the story entirely, we're looking at taking a different path to accomplish the same stuff. Incorporate lore figures who have long been forgotten (Nazgrel, Trollbane) and try and flesh stuff out a bit more in the process.

This is less the product of 'rp feels stale' and more the product of 'we don't like where Blizzard is taking us', and its been produced more out of seeing the plot develop in Mists of Pandaria and Warlords of Draenor more than anything.

To address a concern which I believe is probably present (and I've seen skirted on in this thread): I know there might be some issue with the notion of 'GMs determine, you can give input'; I completely understand why that's a hang-up for some people. I understand how for some this sounds like 'We'll decide, you can shout in a thread if you don't like it'. Ultimately though someone will have to determine the outcome of this stuff, and putting it to a vote each time could end up making stuff inconsistent. I'm certain would do their best to incorporate feedback and try not to step on toes; really given that we're still going to (more or less) move on a set path though, I don't believe there would be too much of an issue.

...And if there is an issue, your character can probably react to it as well. Why aren't we fighting these orcs when the opportunity strikes? Why would a leader want to do peace talks with a faction we've hated and warred with for years? Maybe someone should throw a wrench in the works so we can get back to the good old fashion wor.

...These are all theoretical things, of course, and to stress this it's all my opinion that I'm covering in this post. So don't get stressed out thinking that its a major vibe from the GM team in general. I do feel that by going off the rails we can make the world breath a bit though. Have things happen where the lore goes silent. Have places affected that were previously static because 'the questline says so'. Involve factions that were forgotten by Blizzard ('Tectonic plates', ch. Kul Tiras, where are you?). That sort of thing. I think we could do all this and find a way to make it accessible.

Alright, I think that's about enough from me.

EDIT: Am I overhyped? Yes. Almost certainly. I will not lie and tell you that everything will go smooth and that all of our dreams and visions will blossom into a saccharine utopia. I will say that I'm very hopeful when viewing this kind of idea and that I think it has a lot of potential.

//Rigley's Opinion: Rigley's Opinion is not Necessarily Indicative of Overall GM Thoughts or Incoming Policies.//
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