Druids speaking whilst in Animal form?

[Manufreak101]

This is something that has been commonly argued upon within our community.
Is it possible? I say yes.
Many people have their own thoughts about druids and their forms.
On a retail WoW forum I actually found someone who says that when she transforms, she is actually herself, but with the 'illusion' of being an animal with all it's powers,
/shrug
we can all have our views I guess.

But still, A druid can transform into different animals and they all are different in their own way, here's a list of them provided with an argument that backs up them speaking in that form. Let's all be clear first of all, that when we transform, we actually turn into that animal, the only difference is that that animal has the mind of something totally different within it, so in other words, no illusions.

(1)Bear Form- One of the most basic forms I say, and even I agree that in this form, we can't speak. This is backed up in Warcraft III when druids of the claw can't speak whilst in bear form. So, no arguments here. It is also proven that whilst in this form druids don't even posses the appropriate vocals in their throats to even speak, speaking would just be turned into pure gibberish, and when I say gibberish, I mean a whole load of growls!

(2)Cat/Travel Form- Is the stereotypical form of druids(Cat form), and speaking in this form is also something that is deemed impossible. It's mainly due to the vocals once again.

(3)Aquatic form- Just like the two previous forms, is also deemed impossible, once again mainly due to the vocals.

(4)Flight Form- For both Swift and normal flight form, I'll have to agree to the fact that they can't talk, even the druids of talons from Warcraft III couldn't, once again it's all down to the vocals.

(5)Moonkin/Tree of Life Form- Now this is a very open area of this discussion. Let me start of by saying the these creatures don't even exist in real life and is open to speaking, especially since Blizz hasn't officially and clearly stated that druids can't speak in these forms, or in any of the other forms for a fact. Many have even witnessed druid NPCs speaking in these forms aswell, with the occasional 'squawk' from a Moonkin-formed druid maybe. So this I would say, is the only form allowed to speak. But this is an open forum and I seek the approval of a gm before even trying this.

All are arguable facts, but speaking really doesn't have to come from our mouths. What if it was through telekinetic-s? That was what I first thought.
It would be very interesting though, to see a panther, get scared, only for the panther itself to tell you to calm down. 'Don't worry, I'm a vegetarian' :P.
What do I mean by the word 'telekinetic'?
Well, What I mean is that what about us speaking though our minds? Where in animal form, we can choose to say things through our minds, this would be very interesting, no?
Though it would most probably only be allowed if was in a a prestige class, problem is that there is no such thing as a druid prestige class, which is why I wanna' say-
Can we have a druid prestige class? Differences between normal druid and prestige druid (can be called Arch-druid maybe) (1)Speak through telekinetic-ly in animal forms. (2) New forms (3) More control over nature.
Stuff like that would be interesting, but is a totally different subject, I'll post it on the prestige titles form maybe, but who knows?


That's generally all I can say for now, more bits of information will be added later on, when I think of some.
Who knows? Maybe after this I can finally speak in one my animal forms.

[rentreality]

(4)Flight Form- For both Swift and normal flight form, I'll have to agree to the fact that they can't talk, even the druids of talons from Warcraft III couldn't, once again it's all down to the vocals.

I just wanted to note that it's interesting that flight form couldn't talk. The bird looks relatively crow-like, and crows are one of the members of the bird family who can talk if properly trained.

Would selective shapeshifting be possible, perhaps? Reforming your vocal cords to allow for semi-intelligible speech?

[Manufreak101]

(4)Flight Form- For both Swift and normal flight form, I'll have to agree to the fact that they can't talk, even the druids of talons from Warcraft III couldn't, once again it's all down to the vocals.

I just wanted to note that it's interesting that flight form couldn't talk. The bird looks relatively crow-like, and crows are one of the members of the bird family who can talk if properly trained.

Would selective shapeshifting be possible, perhaps? Reforming your vocal cords to allow for semi-intelligible speech?

Interesting!
To be honest out of all my forms I want my Flight forms to be the form to be allowed to speak, maybe an accomplished druid can only do this, or maybe a druid of the Talon, but who knows?

[Dilly]

Treants and Moonkin do not speak, but understand Darnassian. However, shapeshifted Druids speaking to respective animals ("cat form" to sabers, etc.) is entirely possible, in my opinion.

I'd say no to telepathy. But that's just me.

And there already are Druid prestiges. This, for example.

[Manufreak101]

Wooow!
That is a hard druid prestige-class
Only problem is my only RP would be with animals and that when I for example try chilling with the cats in the Barrens they end up using me as lunch :P
Still though, I know you're a expert, but this is arguable, If NPCs can do it, so can we
Also, don't druids still posses the brain and personality etc they previously had?
So doesn't that mean we can still speak in our normal language whilst in Moonkin/Tree of Life form?

[Dilly]

Treants do not speak, but they understand Darnassian.

Wildkin do not speak, but they understand Darnassian.

Well, according to WoWWiki, it's impossible. :B And I, personally, cannot imagine a tree or an owlchickenbear having the ability to make sounds needed to speak properly.

... If that makes sense. :<

[Manufreak101]

/Shrug
Still though, where in WoWwiki does it say this?
And why was Blizz so careless with making druid making common sounds when you /nod (and other emotes aswell)whilst in animal form and also allow NPCs to talk?
Lool these small bits of carelessness is causing this debate right now :P

[Dilly]

Treant and Wildkin articles. :>

[Manufreak101]

Treant and Wildkin articles. :>

Aight'
Ill check it out.

[Manufreak101]

Aight'
I've checked it out mate.
It turns out that Wildkin, which are generally animals that are sacred to Nightelves, by themselves understand Darnassian, same with Treants,
but druids in Wildkin form will also understand whatever their humanoid form would understand, but not necessarily speak it.

Maybe the hope of druids having the ability to speak in Animal form is fading away, but I still have the backup proof of certain NPCs, speaking in their animal forms.
I'll do a bit more research into this.

[lucifael]

I always find this sort of discussion interesting because it is sort of a trapdoor argument. Can a shape-shifted being speak? Well, the short answer would have to be “yes” because an answer of “no” is just too hard to substantiate. However, you can look at it in some detail.

To wonder how a shape-shifted being can speak is also to wonder how a shape-shifted being can shape-shift. The empirical evidence of their ability is plainly obvious so one must conclude that they can indeed shape-shift. One might argue about the mechanics of such a change, but that is largely academic because the entire process steps out of the realm of the real at that point.

Once a being is shape-shifted then the question becomes not can they speak, but how can they speak. The arguments for that though are just as academic because we are still not in the realm of the real and we will not be until we are once again in a non shape-shifted state.

Therefore, as long as we are outside the realm of the real, the effort that goes into imposing a “real” state on any part of that existence (i.e. an animal can't talk) is really an effort to define the whole state which is clearly magical and thusly indefinable as anything real.

So you see the trapdoor is logically that if the being can shape shift at all then the fact that they can talk is no great surprise. If a normal cat were to speak it would be much more amazing and worthy of debate.

[Manufreak101]

I always find this sort of discussion interesting because it is sort of a trapdoor argument. Can a shape-shifted being speak? Well, the short answer would have to be “yes” because an answer of “no” is just too hard to substantiate. However, you can look at it in some detail.

To wonder how a shape-shifted being can speak is also to wonder how a shape-shifted being can shape-shift. The empirical evidence of their ability is plainly obvious so one must conclude that they can indeed shape-shift. One might argue about the mechanics of such a change, but that is largely academic because the entire process steps out of the realm of the real at that point.

Once a being is shape-shifted then the question becomes not can they speak, but how can they speak. The arguments for that though are just as academic because we are still not in the realm of the real and we will not be until we are once again in a non shape-shifted state.

Therefore, as long as we are outside the realm of the real, the effort that goes into imposing a “real” state on any part of that existence (i.e. an animal can't talk) is really an effort to define the whole state which is clearly magical and thusly indefinable as anything real.

So you see the trapdoor is logically that if the being can shape shift at all then the fact that they can talk is no great surprise. If a normal cat were to speak it would be much more amazing and worthy of debate.

Wise Words.

[Bovel]

Even through some druids can in-game speak in animal forms I frown upon that behaviour. The reason why is cause I am so tired of having to RP with druids in animal form all day.

[Azheron]

I would say that since the animals that they change into really can't speak, their throats would not be designed for that action. And I doubt that a druid would take the time to actually edit the shapeshift so that the human vocal chords would remain.

[Piroska]

I've always been of the opinion that druids that have shapeshifted typically are unable to speak. They most likely do have other forms of communication, but I think that it would be physically impossible for them to speak Darnassian, Common, Taurahe, or whatever. I stumbled across an article entitled "Can Cats Talk?" and it says:

For humans, the terms 'speech' and 'talk' are not restricted to vocalization, but encompass human body language (which most of us read without realising it), gestural languages (sign language) and tactile languages (of deaf-blind individuals) which are equally expressive among those fluent in their use. Further, human language comprises both verbal and non-verbal components (including the written extension of body language through gestural substitutes such as the <VBG >, :-) symbols within Internet communication).

The cat's vocal apparatus differs from our own and is not designed with speech in mind. However cats need to communicate, both with other cats and with owners. They "speak" to each other through body language, communicating feelings and intentions through posture and facial expression. Scent is also an important component of cat communication. In addition, they have a vocabulary of sounds ranging from caterwauls to mewing sounds, from hisses to the "silent meow" which is probably a sound pitched too high for human ears to hear. The familiar "miaow" is used mainly for communicating with humans as we are evidently too thick to understand anything other than kitten-talk.

I like to think that the same applies in-game. When a druid shifts, he assumes the form of an animal in nature. These creatures, while sometimes able to mimic the sounds humans make, don't speak. They instead communicate through other means, which we can sometimes understand.

However, not being able to talk doesn't restrict roleplay; it instead opens up new opportunities! For example, my kal'dorei druid was recently undergoing training with her shan'do. This involved (for whatever reason) a mock fight in feline form. We engaged in battle and my character performed various cat-like actions, including staring at her opponent without blinking, twitching of the tail, lowered her eats -- the whole kit-n-caboodle. And, after she lost, Emese yielded defeat by rolling onto her back and showing her belly in a submissive posture, mimicking action that tigers have taken upon losing a fight.

Animals communicate with one another (and us!). Sometime it's in subtle ways, but that even allows for further opportunity in roleplay.

There are only two forms of which I am uncertain: Tree of Life and Moonkin. Treants are similar to Ancients, who are able to talk. However, since even WoWWiki calls them "more primative forms" of the Ancients, it could be that they are unable to do so. I just don't know much about owlkin at all, but WoWWiki does say that they can't speak.