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Gaining a Prestige: Feedback.
#1
We are still discussing the new prestige system but something that came up is how players can acquire a prestige. We have few ideas and will share them with you, what we want is both feedback and new suggestions so don't be afraid to reply!

Now one of the issues with the old system was that not many actually persisted through the whole process, I think less than a dozen could actually lay that claim. What we want is to encourage more people to keep going, to get more people to attempt it and more people who actually make it through. So, more of everything quiet simply.

One way to do this is to change the way one would progress through the training process, in the past the focus has been to write a story and have it approved, piece by piece, by the GMs. Writing is a great way to portray a lot of things that might not be possible or at least hard to do in-game but not everyone is confident in their skill and some might feel that it draws attention from the main aspect of RP, so one of our ideas is to reduce the amount of writing. Instead of having to write a complete story we would like you to have most of the training take place in-game through RP while the writing is done to portray the more difficult things, like interacting with certain NPCs, and to show what powers/abilities/fame that your character claim.

Another suggestion, which actually came from a player, was that at the end of a training process between two players (a mentor and a student) the student would write a summary of the storyline (the training, that is), this would be considerably less to write and would, I assume, amount to roughly one storyline post.

Something else we've considered is quests and events that would be supplemental to the other options, one event could take the place of say one Storyline post and be a good oppertunity for a character to start their training too.

Since there's some great tools available through addons we've also looked at the possibilities they may present, the addon Elephant for an example could easily let a player simply copy paste an entire RP session to the forums, which could be an alternative to writing a storyline.

A more advanced form of these quests would be a longer storyline crafted by the GMs that would put a handful of characters in the "hero" seat and present them with challenges that would allow them to earn and develop the skills and abilities of a certain prestige title of their choice. At the end of the storyline they would be allowed to claim the prestige as if they have at least progressed significantly within it. However an issue with this is that it could easily become too time consuming and drain the GMs working on it, so at the moment it seems the least likely to be implemented.

Note that we do not plan to remove the option to craft and write a story, what we want is to have a few options that would be suitable for a wider range of players so everyone have an equal chance to train for a prestige title.

So what can we do to improve these ideas? Do you have other suggestions?
Then start posting!
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#2
I likes this idea, but would we have the choice between the two, or would we have to do it through ingame rp from now on?
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#3
Well, to be honest i have tried to get a prestige on a character before the restart, but i never got any response from the GM's. My suggestion is this: for example I'm currently developing a storyline alongside Aphetoros and i plan to use it as the beggining for my application for the Graven One title, we're traveling around Azeroth and Outland, investigating the plague and most kinds of Undead, speaking with people, examinating every kind of Undead there is, etc... I guess this way of obtaining titles is much more fun than just writing post after post. The combination of In-Game RP and Storyline posts seems more useful than just Storyline posts. Then again, I also saw when Nexi was doing her training for her Necromancer title, but all I saw was a small training session.

My opinion? To have long sessions of RP and then complement them with some storylines posts.

That's my two cents.
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#4
Well, I suppose an idea is throwing a system that "new" characters can be esablished prestiges with special profiles, for instance, a very old blademaster. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for me that this person would one day towards the end of their life decide... "Oh! Well I should become a blademaster now that I'm all old and feeble and things are more difficult and I have less of a reason to fight." Rather then say he was once a member of the Burning Blade Clan, and there's a storyline/prestige thread about specific instances in his life that give information how he became the prestige class his currently is.
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#5
I think you can institute a mix of those ideas. Not everyone taking a prestige class will want to be taking it from the novice standpoint. I think, if you want to have the prestige 'training' as part of your history, you write storyline posts. That's if you're allowing the grandfathering of prestiges.

Otherwise, in game events are going to be the most fun, but will require GMs almost commited to the task of providing players their prestige related NPC, and the however many hours of playtime. As great an idea as it is, it will definately be a burden to the GMs.
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#6
I will bite! :3

I will say that the quests and events idea is an extremely good one, and I'll admit that part my own prestige training was completed in this way. Mochla, during her training, led a small group of people around Azshara Crater and helped to cleanse the Elementals that were being corrupted by fel-magic. Now, I didn't write a detailed post about each event and occurrence of this (which I certainly could have, and it would have been fun!) but I did mention that it happened in at least one of my posts as it became a rather important turning point for her as a character. Events and quest chains are really a more fun and engaging way to train the character, and a player wouldn't have to feel so isolated away from in game happenings as they spend their time writing and posting on the forums. I think as long as these events are at least mentioned in passing in some kind of story thread, this would be acceptable.

I honestly feel that if someone doesn't wish to write out everything through the forums, then at least a healthy balance of in game and out of game training should occur. Having some kind of written record, some testament to the fact that "Yes, this is how I earned the title. I went through all these awesome adventures etc. etc." should be necessary, I believe. If someone doesn't feel comfortable writing that story-thread, I think the option of copying and pasting an rp session into the forums (probably with some descriptive or tasteful editing) is also a good one. Brings the focus back to rp so that our prestige characters don't feel like they are in a protective bubble where they can't interact with anyone. (That was a lame description and not true in all cases, but hopefully it got my point across. xD)

Hmm, trying not to sound like a redundant hooligan here...

Overall, I think one thing that would make training immensely easier for people -would- be getting the chance to rp with another person. Rping as the master and the student isn't always easy. I know I would have liked to do more of that myself, anyway. Maybe I'm crazy! Maybe this isn't even helping! Hope it did, anyways. o.o That is all for now, I think.
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#7
It would be nice if there was a way for a character to have an established prestige title, as opposed to having to train for one as though they were a novice every single time.

I've always thought it would be nice if a willing GM could act as an ingame mentor to a character, which would allow the GM to monitor that prestige character's progress without the need for approving posts all the time, and it would additionally mean that there was a source of RP for that character that was directly related to their goals.
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#8
Is the rule where we have to have Rped for 2 months with that character before we can take on a prestige class still present?
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#9
Manufreak101 Wrote:Is the rule where we have to have Rped for 2 months with that character before we can take on a prestige class still present?


This isn't a topic where we tell you of the new system, it's a chance for players to pitch in ideas for how the system will look and work. Make sure to take that chance!

As for an answer, we don't know yet. It's not been discussed, most likely the requirements will remain pretty much the same. Now please keep on topic.

Miah Wrote:I likes this idea, but would we have the choice between the two, or would we have to do it through ingame rp from now on?

As I said in the original post, we want to provide a few options so as many as possible can somehow get a prestige, we don't intend to remove the option of crafting and writing a storyline.

Keep the ideas and feedback coming, it is very helpful and gives us more to work with!
All makt åt Tengil, vår befriare!

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#10
I might as well delve into this topic, considering I have already chosen which Prestige class I wish to become and have outlined the brief plan to obtain said title though have not submitted due to the time restraint.

That being said, I didn't know exactly how Prestige titles were previously granted so I stated I wanted to do Weekly Quests involving the faction which would grant me my title..

Considering it now while Weekly quests seem too simple, an in game quest line of epic proportions seems like the best route.

Aside from this, a "Prestige" specific forum with journals from the various characters trying to obtain it. After each quest, the PC is required to chronicle and log his experiences in his character's words as a way to meditate and ponder what exactly his quests taught him.

You mention GMs creating content as an issue; share the workload. I don't know how the GM Status is set up, but it seems you might only have a particular number dedicated to Content presumably.

-Checks Wiki and shuffles back over-

From the Wiki, it seems you have 11 GMs (not sure which are inactive/active) with 47 Prestige Titles. That's roughly 4 quest storylines per GM (not counting the 47). Create quests for each title, alter minor details for different races/factions, and RNG the order of the Quests (except for like, the last 3 which would grant the player the best abilities/items/etc).

This enables uniqueness and flavor for each character, as this is a small server, it'd be unlikely that two people would acquire the exact same style/order of Quests. Aside from this, allow particular quests to grant the unusual abilities and/or items delivered to a class. This adds even more of a unique feel to a character's journal entries and quest line.

Also if you feel the workload of creating stories along with server duties is too burdensome, and this is a stretch, host a contest.

Allow your server's populace to design either an entire story itself or simple quests for the Prestige classes, keeping in mind they must have details which can easily be altered by you with ease for other races/classes/factions/etc.
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#11
Random slew of ideas, not sure how hard it would be. Or if possible just curious.

1) Maybe have scripted quests, that would require a forum post of travels and experiences so one couldn't just run through it.

2) Have people who already acquired prestige titles teach someone how to do it.

3) Maybe run in game events, or maybe set up a prestige storyline forum with an area asking for approval.

4) I think most people will say the hardest part about getting a prestige is the okay from the GM's. You guys probably get mail everyday for numerous reasons and numerous topics, and then to be able to role play takes up more time. Maybe a Forum of Applications, so it'd be like char profiles. SO GM's could quick scan and say No. Yes. No in a list.

5) Maybe the storylines don't have to be so long. I've seen prestige title posts, and they're massive. It's intimidating to a lot of people. Myself included and I have storylines falling out the ace. I say how much is needed to convey to the server and GM's that sufficient training has been had and the player grasps the class and responsibilities. Some titles should be hard to obtain given how rare the class is.

6) I'd also recommend setting up areas around the map with trainers and npc's in training, so you could put your char there In game maybe take screen shots, or keep them there just for the sake of consistancy. May take a while to spawn however.

7) Or we can just RP and send the text of the RP through that elephant addon.

8) Maybe it's time to trust the grunts a little more, to let back on the requirements ( which I think you all are doing ) to let this be a little more fun. And then if one of us starts trippin ( which I might, won't lie. I'll try my best not to ) and makes a character who's too bad ass, or acquired the title too fast The GM staff can take it back. But I guess give us the op to have fun with the classes and titles before they become hard to obtain again. All I have for now I will add more maybe when I get back from work. Hope this helps get the ball rolling.
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#12
This has been a topic that's been discussed pretty often lately.

Someone suggested (And I can't think for the life of me who it was) that the system should be completely open.

Create suggestive templates (You can forum post, you can do this, you can do that...) but leave it completely up to the players. They could have a quest line in mind, they could have a specific story that they want to play out in game. Just get them to create an application stating what they're going to do, in-game, on the forums, whatever, in order to achieve the prestige they're aiming for.

IMO if someone's a good roleplayer and they have a very clear idea of what they want to do in their heads, then let them roll with it. They'd need GM approval to start and to finish, but apart from that leave it up to the player.

Perhaps create a forum that only GMs and approved players can post in. People post updates for their character's training progression, or just continue their story via forum posts if they can't do it in-game. The GMs can give input if the character is deviating from their proposed training too much.

One thing I would say is that constructive feedback is vital, but you don't want it from everybody (hence the specific forums). I know when I was doing my prestige posts I was given invaluable advice by a couple of people, but it would have annoyed me if my story couldn't be read without having to sift through pages of comments from other people. Call me egotistical, but if people want to read my story then they shouldn't have to read anything else along the way :P
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#13
Knock Wrote:One thing I would say is that constructive feedback is vital, but you don't want it from everybody (hence the specific forums). I know when I was doing my prestige posts I was given invaluable advice by a couple of people, but it would have annoyed me if my story couldn't be read without having to sift through pages of comments from other people. Call me egotistical, but if people want to read my story then they shouldn't have to read anything else along the way :P

Maybe either have two threads for it? One for feedback and one for the posts themselves? But I'd also say that maybe players PM criticism instead of actually posting it in replies, which would reduce forum clutter as well.
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#14
I have to say, my opinion is very much like Knock's. I think players feel a bit intimidated, not by the fact that the Prestige attempt itself must be approved, but by the fact that every post they make must go through GM approval.

I think that while diverse paths, such as a series of Forum Posts, Ingame RP, and so on, should be presented to the Player, in the end, while Prestige Class beginnings and endings should be GM-approved, the rest of the way, the actual path should be monitored and moderated, instead of approved step by step. The reasoning behind this is that first of all, it would lighten the already heavy load on GMs, and secondly, it would encourage more players to apply for Prestige Classes, due to it being a simplified process.

In other words, the simpler it is, the more people will go for it, the more diversity it would bring to both the characters of the server, and to its RP as a whole.

Just my opinion.
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#15
Thank you all! A lot of what has been said mirror ideas among us GMs, and we'll be sure to keep the new suggestions and ideas you've made in mind while we try to finalize some kind of system. Which I believe we will soon* do! So if you still want to have your voice heard don't wait with replying with your ideas and opinions!


*This doesn't mean you can expect everything to be ready tomorrow or even the next week, there's no set date and new discussion crop up alll the time, but we will try to not let it take too long before we're ready.
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