Poll: What do you think of half-breed NPCs?
You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
No; keep them out!
27.16%
22 27.16%
Yes, but restraint is needed! (Confirmed lore examples)
18.52%
15 18.52%
Yes, and leniency is a positive thing! (Confirmed pairings+reasonable extras)
45.68%
37 45.68%
Yes, with no limits!
6.17%
5 6.17%
Bananas! [OTHER OPINION+POST BELOW!]
2.47%
2 2.47%
Total 81 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

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Half-Breed NPCs
#16
I think the big intention with half-breed NPCs is mostly offspring.
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#17
I believe most people IC would be looking down upon half-breed children NPCs already. Those of us who wish to have them are not only willing to RP out the conflict, but look forward to and encourage it. It's reminiscient of war stories and other conflict-focused tales where we follow the people who deviate away from the norm while searcing for happiness and peace in a world that wishes they die in a fire.

Players who want the option of having half-breed children are not looking for special-snowflake status. They want the conflict. They want people to frown upon the interracial couple and their children, because that's how lore is. Anyone (including myself) raised in a bicultural home know about the struggles of finding identity, but there is a thrilling, exciting reward when struggles are overcome, even when the rest of the world won't acknowledge it.

The only downside to allowing half-breed NPC children is how people will OOC avoid that kind of RP altogether, even if they are not at all a part of that mixed family. It'll divide the server from the people who will shun, prohibit, limit, and altogether discourage RP from individuals who either have no problem with it (even if they're not a part of that family) or encourage conflict without elevating themselves to "special snowflake". Yes, there will be people who want that status, but just because you have a half-breed doesn't make you a "special snowflake". Take advantage of your OOC hate to IC. Don't shun people just because they want to RP a certain thing.

TLDR; even if you don't like the concept of half-breeds at all, give people a chance. You don't have to participate it, but don't shun people from the opportunity and option either.
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#18
Only lore examples, with the possible exception in my head being dwarves/gnomes due to relatively similar origins/body structure. Ignore Med'an please.
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#19
It's not like we don't have 'snowflake' characters already, as some would call them. Half-races are just another aspect of role-playing, another plot and storyline to tie into a character. The only reason I can think of why not is because all the horror stories from retail, which we won't allow. Not everyone is a 'poor' and 'bad' role-player, by whatever standards. Just make it a special profile that requires 2-3 GM's approval and it should be fine. Unless we're doubting our profile system...

Yes with leniency.
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#20
Lets all just be reasonable with it. Be responsible and respectful. No one will force you to RP with them. And who knows? Maybe it could be pulled off incredibly well by a few of us!

So long as we don't go bonkers with it, it would be excellent. Perhaps NPCs should require GM approval, but at the fraction of approvals PCs would need.

You know... Just so everyone doesn't have a half-whatever.
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#21
Why are the children necessary for this sort of roleplay revolving around the conflict of a controversial relationship? Can't you have this without interracial children? I think it's just as interesting to have a relationship in which it's impossible to have children as it is to have one where children are possible, as far as roleplay is concerned. I know Teztez and Rekka are an example of a 'successful' interracial relationship that it's impossible for them to have children in, but they really want children and will probably adopt. Why can't other interracial couples adopt children as well?

Make the fact that these characters can't have a child part of their roleplay. Make it a conflict in their lives. How will they try to get around it? Will their relationship continue even without the ability to copulate?

I'm really worried that if this gets passed, people will begin to lobby for half-children that they themselves are interested in, rather than things that make sense. I'll admit that what I think makes sense probably isn't what ya'll think makes sense, but I'm afraid these half-breed children will essentially get brute forced through everything because we're afraid to offend or get on the nerves of one another by openly standing in opposition. I don't think this will be handled properly. I really think this whole thing will just be a source of conflict.
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#22
At least it's a two sided thing. One side is all "Lets give it a try." The other, "We don't want it, there's too much that could go wrong." Or the "We just don't like half breeds, and thus wouldn't rp with anyone who plays them, and thus don't want them on the server."

Staring through this, I think that instead of saying a no because of worry or just general dislike, make it strick. Instead of having the leniency, lets make it strick. Lets have our trial run. There are a lot of people it seems who want to give it a trial. Not pass it and make it permanent, but just a try. So my question is this, why not? Things don't work out, people abuse it, people start trying to cram stuff (Though I personally don't believe a majority of this server would, and those that would even -think- about trying should stop and step away) down the gms throats, pull the plug. And I mean a no hesitation pulling of the plug.

All in all, lets give it a shot. Things don't work out? End it. Make it clear to anyone who wants to play one or have an npc that there are gonna be strict rules to follow. And not following them will simply end the project entirely.
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#23
(04-11-2013, 03:51 PM)SachikoMaeda Wrote: No one will force you to RP with them.

I do not like this vein of thought.

While no, nobody is forcing you to RP with anyone, the day we start using this kind of argument as a crutch for passing new concepts into our world is a day we start walking down a road that we don't need to be going down. We are a small community as it is, and the people who disagree with half-blood races should not be at the point where they can't get RP because everyone has some sort of half-blood child with them, and they don't want to have to experience such a thing. Everyone is free to RP as they choose, clearly, but this kind of thought process springs up a world where any notion is possible to be passed because if you don't like it, you don't have to RP with it. That kind of a world is not a world that will have continued support from the people in it. I do not mean to pick on you in particular, SachikoMaeda, but that small bit stood out very sharply to me. It seems to me that it's almost the same as saying "If you don't like it, tough."

If we are going to pass half-blood races, which I still do not support, let us not do it on the notion of those opposing to turn a blind eye.
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#24
I think it's kind of odd the idea seems to be that once half-breeds are allowed to be played, everyone will be RPing them all the time. I highly doubt that will be the case.
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#25
(04-12-2013, 09:44 AM)Anski Wrote:
(04-11-2013, 03:51 PM)SachikoMaeda Wrote: No one will force you to RP with them.
If we are going to pass half-blood races, which I still do not support, let us not do it on the notion of those opposing to turn a blind eye.

The point Saichi was trying to make is that a lot of comments involve people just not wanting to rp with them. Not liking them. It's nothing about turning a blind eye, but more about the fact that people wont be shoving half breeds down others throats saying "RP WITH ME I IS SO SPECUL" or even the non nub version "Your gonna have to rp with my half breed now, whether you want to or not."

Do I expect a lot of rp on a half breed should I be able to play one and it's all accepted? Nope. I don't. Will it stop me from playing him? Never. I think there are enough people who either don't care/are okay with half breeds that I can get decent rp without having to idle while those who say "I will never rp with a half breed." are the only ones online (Lets face it, it's not gonna happen)

And something to say to Bovel actually! We're not a large server you know. We're a group of around 60 people, with at most 35 (Maybe even 40!?) people online at a time. Those dragonsworns you met? Just active players who wanted to play a sworn. If we were a larger server with like 100 people on and you were meeting dragonsworn left and right as you pass through a city, yeah, it would be an issue. But we're a small amount of people.

As I've said in the past, we are a small fraction of the worlds population, the thing is, no one says which part we all have to play. If we're to take the whole dragonsworn list for blood elves (Which in the scale of player races for it, blood elves are indeed the highest) and put that number against the NPC population of blood elves that would actually inhabit the world (This includes the one blood elven dragon sworn you can find in northrend) you'd find the percentage isn't even enough to be considered a percentage.
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#26
(04-11-2013, 02:50 PM)ImagenAshyun Wrote: Players who want the option of having half-breed children are not looking for special-snowflake status. They want the conflict. They want people to frown upon the interracial couple and their children, because that's how lore is. Anyone (including myself) raised in a bicultural home know about the struggles of finding identity, but there is a thrilling, exciting reward when struggles are overcome, even when the rest of the world won't acknowledge it.

I don't mean to pick on this post in particular, but I want to point something out. RPers on CotH rarely use IC racism between normal characters in the first place. Do you really think half-breed kids are going to suddenly inspire tons of conflict RP? Because I doubt that will happen. Also, I understand the appeal of wanting to play a character caught between two cultures, the ramifications of that, etc. etc. But...this is about NPCs, mostly the kids. You don't need that in order to engage in that RP, and the perspective of the kid in question will probably never come up in any realistic time frame.

I honestly find the results of this discussion, compared to the last one, utterly baffling. The most common cited reason for being conservative with playable characters was to avoid having to make guesses as to what combinations could breed with one another, and yet we have people voting contrary to that in this poll for no expressed reason. Yet, having a split verdict between PCs and NPCs would be inconsistent and invite both confusion and OOC conflict down the line, mostly for the benefit of creating NPCs who will have only a minimal impact upon RP in the first place beyond the use as a prop (and I hate to word it in such a manner, but that is ultimately what kids are treated as on CotH, since they almost never get to the age where they can speak themselves.)
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#27
(04-12-2013, 10:17 AM)Grakor456 Wrote: RPers on CotH rarely use IC racism between normal characters in the first place. Do you really think half-breed kids are going to suddenly inspire tons of conflict RP? Because I doubt that will happen.

While it's good to have doubts, they shouldn't be used as determinations. Yes, there are plenty of players that don't seem to incorporate a lot of racism into their RP, but I can assure you that I've seen plenty racism conflicts going on between characters on the server, even if these quiet RPs seem to live under the radar at times. These are the players that can use half-breeds effectively.

'RPers on CotH' is a term that shouldn't be used lightly.

Also, I don't remember half-breed NPCs being discussed in the last thread, so I don't understand why they've popped up in this discussion all of a sudden.
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#28
(04-12-2013, 10:17 AM)Grakor456 Wrote:
(04-11-2013, 02:50 PM)ImagenAshyun Wrote: Players who want the option of having half-breed children are not looking for special-snowflake status. They want the conflict. They want people to frown upon the interracial couple and their children, because that's how lore is. Anyone (including myself) raised in a bicultural home know about the struggles of finding identity, but there is a thrilling, exciting reward when struggles are overcome, even when the rest of the world won't acknowledge it.

I don't mean to pick on this post in particular, but I want to point something out. RPers on CotH rarely use IC racism between normal characters in the first place. Do you really think half-breed kids are going to suddenly inspire tons of conflict RP? Because I doubt that will happen. Also, I understand the appeal of wanting to play a character caught between two cultures, the ramifications of that, etc. etc. But...this is about NPCs, mostly the kids. You don't need that in order to engage in that RP, and the perspective of the kid in question will probably never come up in any realistic time frame.

I honestly find the results of this discussion, compared to the last one, utterly baffling. The most common cited reason for being conservative with playable characters was to avoid having to make guesses as to what combinations could breed with one another, and yet we have people voting contrary to that in this poll for no expressed reason. Yet, having a split verdict between PCs and NPCs would be inconsistent and invite both confusion and OOC conflict down the line, mostly for the benefit of creating NPCs who will have only a minimal impact upon RP in the first place beyond the use as a prop (and I hate to word it in such a manner, but that is ultimately what kids are treated as on CotH, since they almost never get to the age where they can speak themselves.)

It'd be inconsistent, but it's that way already. We have NPC's that do some pretty amazing stuff, as well as ones that do things that players can't. A good case in point is storyline NPC's that exist solely as cannon fodder, or to move along storylines. Often they have positions players cannot obtain, or they do things that we don't consider possible. It's often okay, because they are disposable. Noone plays them, so it's nothing of matter as it's just used for story.


Same with the idea of cross-breed children. In the case of playing them? I'm one of the few that believes that we should just... do it. However, I feel that most people would like to do this in moderation, because as players it's fine to set limits and boundaries as we are used to that. When it comes to NPC's in storylines? We aren't so used to that.
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#29
Well, I've been talking about this with some friends (because I'm a person who's considering writing a guide on IC racism/ethnicism). . .What I've come down with is that my problem isn't necessarily with half-breeds but more with how people react to them. It's the half-breeds who are the ones that are trying to DETER racism because they are an example of anti-racism; it's the 'pure' breeds who must have the responsibility of either disassociating or downright denying social access to half-breeds not because of who they are but because what they were born as.

I agree with Grakor; I just sort of find Immy's post as "what it ought to be" instead of "what's reality".

Below has a lot more to do with racism than half-breeds; it's still related but I spoilered it because it's not super related.
Spoiler:
So I guess if you were asking me, the solution has less to do with half-breeds and more with the overall attitudes of our characters on the server. . .and how to make our characters achieve greater depth when concerning racial relations without intruding on players and making them do something they don't want. Racism is supposed to be a barrier to knock down; in our modern day in real life it's essentially knocked over except for some subtleties and subconscious behaviors (as well as small pockets of hate groups). . .but the thing is, is that our characters in Azeroth haven't made this kind of progress yet.

It's really difficult for us to think that racism is OK let alone a tool that can be utilized to bring greater depth into our stories and development of a realistic world. I don't think racism is ever OK unless you're proving that it's ridiculous, but I think it's much more important to prove it's ridiculous than to automatically assume it's without substance. . .It's so much more fun to have your Human Warrior who's fought in all the wars have to be forced to fight some great enemy with the help of an Orc, reluctantly taking his aid even though it's against what he's been trained his whole life then to, perhaps, be a human who's always looked at people beyond their race and would always accept that sort of aid irregardless.
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#30
As far as my stance on this is concerned... I can see all sorts of problems spawned from the introduction of half-breeds, be it NPCs or PCs. I think it would be interesting to try it; give it a whirl with a few set rules and restrictions and see how it works. There'll be an initial spurt of interest like with everything else once it's been newly introduced, and then it'll most likely ebb out a bit and a scarce few will stick to their characters if they're allowed to keep them at all. That is, if the half-breeds will actually stick around after the initial trial period.

I honestly don't know if the half-breeds will bring much but trouble and inconsistency storyline-wise if they should be given a trial period and then fail that trial. But, well... Better to try and learn than to steer clear. Who knows; we might be positively surprised!

Then again, we might not. If that's the case; it didn't work. That's too bad. It's not impossible to reverse it and just make things go back to the way they were if it's not working. Again, I still think it's worth giving it a go. It could potentially be fun and interesting.

(I also think that the idea of excluding people from RP if they aren't fond of the half-breeds to be very silly. Like others have pointed out... The community's small enough already. If RP gets any more exclusive than it already is, no one's going to get any RP at all.)
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