Poll: What do you think of half-breed NPCs?
You do not have permission to vote in this poll.
No; keep them out!
27.16%
22 27.16%
Yes, but restraint is needed! (Confirmed lore examples)
18.52%
15 18.52%
Yes, and leniency is a positive thing! (Confirmed pairings+reasonable extras)
45.68%
37 45.68%
Yes, with no limits!
6.17%
5 6.17%
Bananas! [OTHER OPINION+POST BELOW!]
2.47%
2 2.47%
Total 81 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

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Half-Breed NPCs
#46
(04-12-2013, 06:07 PM)Grakor456 Wrote:
Quote:Not sure what joke you're talking about.

I believe the confusion, including from the GM side of things, came about because of something I jokingly told Wuvvums a while prior. Or I'm simply misremembering how that conversation went and I really did give permission at the time for her character. At this point, I don't even know. But it was something to the effect of "Oh yeah, if a kid reaches 18 you could totally have someone play them as a character." Either way.

I remember this roughly two years ago and I think Xigo made a similar joke about a half draenei. We knew it would not be plausible for the server to be around long enough for one of us to rp a child from 1-18 years, especially since right now we've been stuck in a particular year of the lore since 2010, haven't we? (Aside from adjusting timeline, I mean we're mostly in the same time period)
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#47
(04-13-2013, 11:33 AM)Wuvvums Wrote:
(04-12-2013, 06:07 PM)Grakor456 Wrote:
Quote:Not sure what joke you're talking about.

I believe the confusion, including from the GM side of things, came about because of something I jokingly told Wuvvums a while prior. Or I'm simply misremembering how that conversation went and I really did give permission at the time for her character. At this point, I don't even know. But it was something to the effect of "Oh yeah, if a kid reaches 18 you could totally have someone play them as a character." Either way.

I remember this roughly two years ago and I think Xigo made a similar joke about a half draenei. We knew it would not be plausible for the server to be around long enough for one of us to rp a child from 1-18 years, especially since right now we've been stuck in a particular year of the lore since 2010, haven't we? (Aside from adjusting timeline, I mean we're mostly in the same time period)

Talking from the standpoint that nothing's happened, yes. However, the timeline still has moved on so to speak.


Let me put it this way. It's sorta like WoW has seen one of it's most peaceful eras for about... three, almost four years.
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#48
I still say no to this.

Main thoughts can be read here.

I just don't see anything good coming from it. In all honesty, it's gonna be another one of those silly trend things that everyone goes crazy for 2 weeks, then forgets about. Everyone's gonna make their SPESHUL MISUNDERSTOOD BEAUTIFUL HALF-BRED SNOWFLAKE, then forget about them.

The reason why I'm so against this is because I'd rather have things that encourage actual character development, rather than gimmicky cliche stuff like this. The whole half-breed thing is one of the staples of the Mary Sue archtype,

Now, I know a lot of players will argue that the Mary Sue will "Special Snowflake" character will exist regardless of what we do (and that is a valid point to make), I feel like this will only exacerbate the problem. It'll be like unleashing a flood gate of gasoline on a burning school building. And then detonating an H-Bomb.

The main issue I have with this is that the Half-Bred trope is so gimmicky to a character. It overwhelms the character too much, and is very limiting. There are plenty of narratives that make the trope work (Vampire Hunter D, Blade, even Warcraft itself...), but I think if a writer is skilled enough to make the half-breed "work," then they don't really need

I agree that COTH should probably loosen up some character restrictions to allow for more development. But, this isn't one of them.

I also gotta agree with Anski on the whole notion that we should be wary of the "If you don't like it, don't RP it" mentality. That sort of logic allows for all sorts of screwed up stuff.

Don't like my Ninja Vampire Cyborg Demon Hunter who openly eRPs with animal NPCs? Well, you don't HAVE to RP with him! You can always go somewhere else--you don't have to participate in his RP!

Plus, the whole "even if it does go horribly wrong, let's just do it anyway!" argument doesn't sit well with me. If we know something is gonna go horribly wrong, why would we do it?

It's like freebasing Draino. Yeah, sure, there's a possibility that you might get a good feeling from it...but all logic and medical science says that freebasing Draino will most likely result in terrible vomiting and / or DEATH.

Seriously kids, don't freebase Draino. It's bad for you.


So why do it?

Plus, the whole "okay lets do it but have the GM's work SUPER SPESHUL HARD to limit them!" sits ill with me, too.

In my opinion, the biggest problem with COTH is this silly meta-game that all of us players are playing. The social hierarchy, the privileging that people try to do with one another. The constant move to "one up" someone. And there's all this stuff, all this "special profile" bollocks that makes players concentrate more on hoarding "Special Snowflake Points ™" than developing actual characters.

I have a Demon Hunter. He's so much cooler, and edgier, and more BADASS than your character.

You have a Demon Hunter? Yeah, well, I have a Demon Hunter too. And he's a Dragonsworn!

You have a Demon Hunter Dragonsworn? Yeah, well, I have a Demon Hunter Dragonsworn too, and he's multi-classed as a Death Knight, due to undeadness!

You have an undead Demon Hunter Death Knight Dragonsworn? Yeah, well, I have an undead Demon Hunter Death Knight Dragonsworn who is also a Night-Elf Blood-Elf half breed!


I see people racking up more of these Special Snowflake Points ™ than actually developing a character.

And, lets face it, it leads to privileging players over the others. Because some are given a free pass to do these things and let into the Special Snowflake Club, while other players are brutally scrutinized in the profile / application process. So then this becomes another "The GM's say I can do this so that means I'm a better RP'r than you LOOK AT ALL MY SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE POINTS™ I WIN AT RP."

I say this because I feel like I'm part of the Special Snowflake Club. I'm pretty privileged. Seriously, why do you people put up with all the stupid crap I do / post, you should know better than this.

Having said all of that, I'd like to conclude that,

We should have Steamwheedle Cartel Goblins come Cata.

Also Slam Jam.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnl0jZrYTDA
Spoiler:


"What a mess we made, when it all went wrong..."
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#49
(04-13-2013, 02:01 PM)Krent Wrote: Krent stuff.

Every character is a special snowflake though man. None of us are free from that. I have 'em, you have 'em, and we all rub it in eachother's faces constantly. Adding this stuff really is just another way for us to add more, rather than just "Be a special snowflake", which everyone concentrates on.

So is writing a profile in the first place, really. We all want to have some sort of uniqueness to our characters, whether through some schtick we find, or by our class, or in this case, by the race. I don't see how it's so bad or condemning compared to everything else we've had that's worked out just fine.
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#50
(04-13-2013, 01:05 PM)Rensin Wrote:
(04-13-2013, 11:33 AM)Wuvvums Wrote:
(04-12-2013, 06:07 PM)Grakor456 Wrote:
Quote:Not sure what joke you're talking about.

I believe the confusion, including from the GM side of things, came about because of something I jokingly told Wuvvums a while prior. Or I'm simply misremembering how that conversation went and I really did give permission at the time for her character. At this point, I don't even know. But it was something to the effect of "Oh yeah, if a kid reaches 18 you could totally have someone play them as a character." Either way.

I remember this roughly two years ago and I think Xigo made a similar joke about a half draenei. We knew it would not be plausible for the server to be around long enough for one of us to rp a child from 1-18 years, especially since right now we've been stuck in a particular year of the lore since 2010, haven't we? (Aside from adjusting timeline, I mean we're mostly in the same time period)

Talking from the standpoint that nothing's happened, yes. However, the timeline still has moved on so to speak.


Let me put it this way. It's sorta like WoW has seen one of it's most peaceful eras for about... three, almost four years.

Okay, sorry, I thought we were sort of like in a Simpsons-based limbo as far as the passage of time goes.

But the point still stands 18 years would take a pretty long time to go through with.
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#51
(04-13-2013, 02:48 PM)Wuvvums Wrote:
(04-13-2013, 01:05 PM)Rensin Wrote:
(04-13-2013, 11:33 AM)Wuvvums Wrote:
(04-12-2013, 06:07 PM)Grakor456 Wrote:
Quote:Not sure what joke you're talking about.

I believe the confusion, including from the GM side of things, came about because of something I jokingly told Wuvvums a while prior. Or I'm simply misremembering how that conversation went and I really did give permission at the time for her character. At this point, I don't even know. But it was something to the effect of "Oh yeah, if a kid reaches 18 you could totally have someone play them as a character." Either way.

I remember this roughly two years ago and I think Xigo made a similar joke about a half draenei. We knew it would not be plausible for the server to be around long enough for one of us to rp a child from 1-18 years, especially since right now we've been stuck in a particular year of the lore since 2010, haven't we? (Aside from adjusting timeline, I mean we're mostly in the same time period)

Talking from the standpoint that nothing's happened, yes. However, the timeline still has moved on so to speak.


Let me put it this way. It's sorta like WoW has seen one of it's most peaceful eras for about... three, almost four years.

Okay, sorry, I thought we were sort of like in a Simpsons-based limbo as far as the passage of time goes.

But the point still stands 18 years would take a pretty long time to go through with.

Your babies will always be babies, and Ash is still only 10.
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#52
(04-13-2013, 02:01 PM)Krent Wrote: Aye, Krest stuff.

Dragonsworn Demon Hunter multi species/multi class death knight eh? Don't you think that's a bit exaggerated? And.. I have yet to actually see someone go "I has demon Hunter, I so special hurr durr" myself.

On another note, I have to agree with Rensin. This isn't so people can become special snowflakes (I mean really, on a server -filled- with people who just -hate- that, why would anyone try?) but to provide more options for people. I for one see nothing wrong with more options. (Though, can someone show me where I can redeem my special snowflake points for dragonsouls to become a titan?)

All in all, I still say give it a shot. Chu'd be surprised how many people here -don't- want special snowflakes.
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#53
(04-13-2013, 03:58 PM)KageAcuma Wrote: (Though, can someone show me where I can redeem my special snowflake points for dragonsouls to become a titan?)

Oh, why didn't you say so? Just go down here to redeem your points.

Spoiler:
[Image: Sarlacc_Tongue.jpg]
[Image: 0f084241-4e8f-4ebc-9f46-e942e4c544a8_zps7e42bd8f.jpg]
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#54
I said I'd stop commenting, but this is once more something I can't let go un-responded to.

(04-13-2013, 03:58 PM)KageAcuma Wrote: Dragonsworn Demon Hunter multi species/multi class death knight eh? Don't you think that's a bit exaggerated? And.. I have yet to actually see someone go "I has demon Hunter, I so special hurr durr" myself.

I don't, and I have.

Quote:(I mean really, on a server -filled- with people who just -hate- that, why would anyone try?)

It happens. I know a few people who try rather regularly, in fact. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Quote:Chu'd be surprised how many people here -don't- want special snowflakes.

And you'd be surprised how many DO. Having access to private discussion, warning threads, and a lot of personal experience over the years, I can promise you that there are a lot of people who want to have "special snowflake" characters. "Have faith in the playerbase!" is NOT a valid reason to do anything at all. We're not on some pedestal, we're not special and immune to said temptations.

If you're for it, that is fine, but this line of reasoning is not a valid one.

Now, to play Devil's Advocate: if such things are allowed, we're probably going to limit "specialness" as-is anyway. Half-breed characters are special enough that they don't need crazy custom powers, dragonsworn/felsworn/demon hunter status, or whatever. Just as we don't let CMCs do any of the above. For the reasons stated above. You can't just put your trust in a large playerbase and expect to not have at least one person betray that trust, so you have to keep limitations in place.
Have you hugged an orc today?
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#55
Personally I still don't see much point in -arguing- this sort of thing in here. From what I understood this was a poll for opinion, and I very much doubt any of us will sway another's opinion on ideas pertaining to creativity.
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#56
Heh, then I suppose my faith in my friends on this server really is misplaced then. I suppose trying to trust people and give them a chance, a test run, isn't the best Idea if all this happens in the back ground.

I still say give it a shot though. Guess this is the end of my side of the fight though, I've got nothing else.
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#57
After reading arguments for both sides I have deducted....

[Image: 35oqwt.jpg]

If it's allowed? Cool. I just hope it's closely monitored. I can probably see myself utilizing such half-breeds as NPCs only as a minor character device. If not? Peaches. I'm not loosing anything.
[Image: KceuhuX.gif][Image: eKcKrrq.png]
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[4:16:27 PM] Cristovao di Silvio ( @CappnRob): theres the bar. then theres the bottom of the barrel, then theres you sachi
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#58
Quote:Now, to play Devil's Advocate: if such things are allowed, we're probably going to limit "specialness" as-is anyway. Half-breed characters are special enough that they don't need crazy custom powers, dragonsworn/felsworn/demon hunter status, or whatever. Just as we don't let CMCs do any of the above. For the reasons stated above. You can't just put your trust in a large playerbase and expect to not have at least one person betray that trust, so you have to keep limitations in place.

Throwing my own opinion in the mix---

For me it's not about trusting the playerbase, it's trusting the GM's/Forum helpers to use discretion when it comes down to this. Having a system in place is fine and dandy, but I feel a set of guidelines and denying those that don't follow them to be a heck of a lot more simple and straightforward than doing like, the typical hoops you have to jump through to do anything these days.

I trust in you lot to keep the quality, I guess, and I don't see why it's so necessary to have all these redundant processes. I think it's perfectly reasonable to have halfbreeds stay to the set classes, the people with classes that aren't the norm to stay away from half breeds, and the like.



HOWEVER, I think this is a topic for that other thread. With NPC's, again, there are instances of like, Half-Drae/Orc Blademasters and the like, so. *Shrugs*

Also, in the case of people seeing the instances of like, demon hunters or whoever bragging, that's pretty much abusing the process and something that's been handled as it pops up, right? I mean, this to me is less about trusting the playerbase, and trusting that the GM's will take care of business.

No system is perfect, and people will have crappy characters roll around that are "Special Snowflakes" regardless of this being added or not, and is really an entirely different discussion.
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#59
It's funny. When you look at the PC vote results, they want less leniency, but with NPCs they want more leniency.

If you're going to allow half-breeds as PCs, you should as NPCs and vice-versa. Personally, I don't really care one-way or another.
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#60
Right now, Flora's RPing with Cristo, and he's talking about strains in his relationship with Diawaata. Flora asked about their adopted Draenei daughter, Melodia, a topic that Cristovao described as a "complication." I've been seeing IC and OoC sentiments that the Draenei need to work hard to preserve their race and culture, and that Melodia "belongs" more to her mother's big, blue family than to Cristo and his human one.

I can't help but feel like the dynamic of this whole situation would be a different kettle of fish if Melodia were his biological daughter; his (dead) human relative would want to claim her as her own and Cristovao and his human friends would feel a greater responsibility to share with her their human culture.

There's some interesting RP points right there, and it has nothing to do with race so much as cultures and blood ties. Yeah, people could still do the kinds of things I listed above with Melodia as a pure draenei girl, but in this particular case, lots of humans don't quite view a draenei/human relationship as real. A biologic child belonging to both races would be a tangible fact that other characters on neither side can ignore, no matter how prejudiced a person they may be.

That's why I want to see half-breed NPCs, especially for offspring. I want to see a member of the Black Harvest fight with draenei over the fate of a child. And if that's bad, special-snowflake RP, then let's snowflake the server up!
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