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Idea: Resurgent / Defect Qiraji
#1
Okay, just read the Inactivity thread, and I had a little idea.

No one can say for sure all members of a faction / species are hardwired to be x. Not all Orcs are shamanistic / warlords, not all humans are "HELL YEAH MONARCHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!". And I've always had a deep love for Qiraji - insect people from an Egyptian / Babylonian culture? Kick ass! But, they've never been a race in retail.

What if some of us did a neutral faction of dissident Qiraji - maybe those who seek peace with the races of Azeroth instead of holing up in their kingdom, and since the Scepter of the Shifting Sands events, they've been quiet.

Of course, we can't be the Silithids (the bugs), only Gladiators, Prophets and Battleguards (are the bugs like Princess Huhuran considered "sentient"?).

So, is this possible, lore-wise? It'd be a nice step in the ways of custom lore, not going headfirst that way but certainly getting a taste of it. You guys like this idea? And any suggestions or disagreements are welcomed.

Little Edit Addition: The Qiraji page on WoWWiki states that there are Independent Qiraji. http://www.wowpedia.org/Qiraji

Doesn't state who, but it's certainly an interesting angle.
[-] The following 4 users Like Nymus's post:
  • Kage, Aethon, Valicor, Altaine
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#2
I've always thought that, while the Nerubians are sentient and intelligent in their own regards, Qiraji are linked to their highers-up via a hivemind that in turn is linked to C'thun.
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#3
(10-21-2013, 04:07 PM)FlyingSquirrel Wrote: I've always thought that, while the Nerubians are sentient and intelligent in their own regards, Qiraji are linked to their highers-up via a hivemind that in turn is linked to C'thun.

I've thought that too - except that Harbinger Skyriss, a prisoner on the Arcatraz, is a Qiraji Prophet. If they were a hivemind, C'Thun would know about the Legion or the Blood Elves - but no "prophecy" was made by them.

It's a weak link, sure, but it's there. And if they are a hivemind, any attack on Ahn'Qiraj would be broadcasted immediately, defenses made, etc. Most of the mobs in Ahn'Qiraj just seem to be flying around aimlessly!
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#4
Old Gods-related topic? Instant support from me!

...well, I wish. As much as I'd love to play as a Qiraji and not merely a crazy elf who worships them, I do have some things to point out about this idea as you've currently suggested it.

(10-21-2013, 03:00 PM)Nymus Wrote: No one can say for sure all members of a faction / species are hardwired to be x. Not all Orcs are shamanistic / warlords, not all humans are "HELL YEAH MONARCHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!".

I agree wholeheartedly that Orcs & Humans (see what I did there) are multidimensional creatures. As many people discussed in the "Race Elimination Game" thread, all too often they are wrongly portrayed--not only by roleplayers, but even sometimes by Blizzard--as being single-minded and one-dimensional, like "fer da king," "fer da herd," and so forth.

But their multidimensionality stems from that they are people--they think, they sleep, they dream, they love, they lust, they mourn. They each have emotions, needs, and moral values that all come together to define their complex psychologies and colorful behaviors.

But the Qiraji are fundamentally not people. By the nature of their origins, they are tools, sculpted by the power of C'Thun (pbuh) for the sole purpose of executing his will upon Azeroth. Like ants, the Qiraji--along with the Silithid from whom they were uplifted--have an ingrained and predetermined purpose in their existence. It isn't even that they want to obey and worship C'Thun; it's that they are born to obey and worship C'Thun. Their intellect and sentience are merely a means to achieve this end; they might not necessarily be a "hive mind," but they are "same-minded" insofar that they all are born with the same, immutable set of values--the ones C'Thun programmed into them.

Quote:What if some of us did a neutral faction of dissident Qiraji - maybe those who seek peace with the races of Azeroth instead of holing up in their kingdom, and since the Scepter of the Shifting Sands events, they've been quiet.

I'm not saying this is impossible. I'm sure, if we were allowed sufficient liberalism with the lore, we could come up with some explanation for an independent group.

But my point is that that group wouldn't be Qiraji anymore; if they were to achieve any sort self-determination, then they would have transcended their nature as C'Thun defined it. In other words, a Qiraji gaining independence isn't merely a matter of "thinking differently;" it's a matter of "gaining the ability to think differently." Therefore we wouldn't be creating a faction of independent Qiraji--we'd be creating a new race entirely.

Quote:Little Edit Addition: The Qiraji page on WoWWiki states that there are Independent Qiraji. http://www.wowpedia.org/Qiraji

Doesn't state who, but it's certainly an interesting angle.

Maybe I'm just not seeing it, but I read that page five times over and didn't see any mention of "Independent" Qiraji or any similar concept. :(
_____________________________________

Needs moar slopes imo
Needs moar archaeology imo
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#5
(10-21-2013, 05:23 PM)Werewolf Wrote: But the Qiraji are fundamentally not people. By the nature of their origins, they are tools, sculpted by the power of C'Thun (pbuh) for the sole purpose of executing his will upon Azeroth. Like ants, the Qiraji--along with the Silithid from whom they were uplifted--have an ingrained and predetermined purpose in their existence. It isn't even that they want to obey and worship C'Thun; it's that they are born to obey and worship C'Thun. Their intellect and sentience are merely a means to achieve this end; they might not necessarily be a "hive mind," but they are "same-minded" insofar that they all are born with the same, immutable set of values--the ones C'Thun programmed into them.

C'Thun didn't program them, I think - he merely influenced them. He sped up the evolution of (or even mutated) the Silithids, turning them into Aqir. It doesn't necessarily state that they're all C'Thun's minions, but it also doesn't state that they have a "free will" of sorts. So I suppose that'll be up to debate. We don't know about Qiraji culture in the nowadays portion (considering C'Thun is, for lack of a better term, dead) so maybe they've moved on to a new god. Only Blizzard knows!

Quote:I'm not saying this is impossible. I'm sure, if we were allowed sufficient liberalism with the lore, we could come up with some explanation for an independent group.

But my point is that that group wouldn't be Qiraji anymore; if they were to achieve any sort self-determination, then they would have transcended their nature as C'Thun defined it. In other words, a Qiraji gaining independence isn't merely a matter of "thinking differently;" it's a matter of "gaining the ability to think differently." Therefore we wouldn't be creating a faction of independent Qiraji--we'd be creating a new race entirely.

What about the self-determination that made some travel north to become the Nerubians? Or the Aqir that traveled south to take over what is now Ahn'Qiraj? Again, it doesn't state that this is free will, nor does it say that C'Thun mandated this.

Quote:Maybe I'm just not seeing it, but I read that page five times over and didn't see any mention of "Independent" Qiraji or any similar concept. :(

Weird - I swear I posted a WoWWiki one... it says it on WoWWiki but I hadn't checked WoWPedia. Maybe someone embellished, I'm not sure. But, here it is if you need it:

http://www.wowpedia.org/Qiraji

EDIT: Looks like all of the WoWWiki links are being changed to WoWPedia links. Damn you, Kretol! Always one step ahead of me.

D : <
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#6
(10-21-2013, 05:42 PM)Nymus Wrote: C'Thun didn't program them, I think - he merely influenced them. He sped up the evolution of (or even mutated) the Silithids, turning them into Aqir. It doesn't necessarily state that they're all C'Thun's minions, but it also doesn't state that they have a "free will" of sorts.

What we do know is that C'Thun created them, and that he did so in his image." They were mindless, skittering insects, and C'Thun was the architect of their growth into what they are now.

While nothing explicitly states that they're all C'Thun's minions, you sort of have to ask, why would C'Thun create any that weren't his minions, or even give them the ability to be anything other than his minions?

And as much as I hate MoP, it did give us some Old God-related stuff--namely, the mantid. Their patron Old God, Y'Shaarj, has been "dead" for millennia and they still continue to worship him (see Kil'ruk the Wind Reaver's dialogue). I think it would be a bit of a stretch to assume that the Qiraji would simply move on after C'Thun's defeat.

Quote:What about the self-determination that made some travel north to become the Nerubians? Or the Aqir that traveled south to take over what is now Ahn'Qiraj? Again, it doesn't state that this is free will, nor does it say that C'Thun mandated this.

They split up because they were forced to, not because they wanted to. The aqir were locked in a battle with the trolls for dominance of the continent (as there was only one continent at that time), and the trolls eventually prevailed, dividing the aqir empire into groups and forcing them to retreat to the ends of the world where they would later become the nerubians, qiraji, and mantid.

Quote:Weird - I swear I posted a WoWWiki one... it says it on WoWWiki but I hadn't checked WoWPedia. Maybe someone embellished, I'm not sure. But, here it is if you need it:

http://www.wowpedia.org/Qiraji

OK, I see what you're referring to here--you're looking at the "Independent" term under the "Faction/Affiliation" part of their info box. On WoWWiki this Independent word (according to the "Independent" page itself) "simply means not part of the Alliance or Horde" and includes races like naga, satyr, and murloc.
_____________________________________

Needs moar slopes imo
Needs moar archaeology imo
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#7
(10-21-2013, 05:42 PM)Nymus Wrote: EDIT: Looks like all of the WoWWiki links are being changed to WoWPedia links. Damn you, Kretol! Always one step ahead of me.

D : <

The staff prefers WoWpedia over WoWwiki as it's more trusted. Once upon a time Kretol got tired of WoWWiki being linked with fanon that he sort of changed all wiki links to pedia links. It's an automatic thing. Don't even try to link W.W. on the forums.

:|
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