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I make my own reasons and own RP. People complain about no RP? I make Wolf Hunt. I poke people in my Skype chats. With Cappn's absence, I'll likely assist in Westfall as well.

To me, a big reason for an empty server seems to be sour attitudes and stubbornly folded arms.

I stay because I go "Eff that" and work past it.
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That's one way to look at it. But look at it from another point of view. I try and make rp each and every day. I try and make rp every day. But there's rarely anyone who's interested. I poke people on skype, but they're busy. I don't think its stubbornly crossed arms, but just a lack of trying new things. Those who have active rp? Seems to be a pattern. You can always tell who has rp because of who they are on the forums.

Least, that's what I've noticed. I'm not going to sugar coat things anymore. Cause we are loosing more people.
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So, since coming back and trying to get RP...I say try because since returning, I have been allowed into maybe a handful of RPs.

You go into an area, ask if you may join the RP and are automatically denied.

"It is private." "We are in my home." Or even no responses.

I think one of the worst things to come to the server (as a whole) will be removing npcs from I stances, allowing for people to use them as their homes. New players or people who haven't networked aren't allowed in because the owners do not want strangers in their homes. But when that is all there is in the way of RP, you sort of get hosed. You don't want to beg to be let in, because most people respond negatively to that. I've spoken to a few people who have experienced this as well. We all get frustrated to the point you go, why am I still trying?

And the funny part about this, is that I wanted to do this for a long; remove npcs from certain instances. But it seems to spread out an already small community.

I could be wrong, I might just have terrible timing.
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I think the housing is an issue dependent on a server's population size, so I half agree with you, Cressy.

Got a huge server? Houses are awesome to hide in for a break from the crowd!

On CotH? An entire server of pairs and trios hiding out is...a downer, yes. Even so, I wouldn't be surprised if people used those buildings with NPCs in them anyway.

Also, I think the very recent extreme emptiness of the server has to do with IRL issues. I mean, Reigen's Halloween event was all kinds of crowded, and Cappn's Westfall was doing well. The past week or so, I think people may be taking a bit of a break. Or being punched in the face by IRL.

Side note: A list of issues brought up here placed in the OP might be useful to read over

Edit: Another thought! I know I, personally, have had a sense of not knowing what to do with the huge changes and world Cataclysm provided. It's all great, and I don't regret changing. But...holy crap. I know we've had excursions into Vashj'ir, and Deepholme. But, aside from Tol Barad, efforts out into the world all seem small and hesitant and uncertain. As if the DMs are tensely poking something with big teeth with a stick.
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Oh yes, that is what I mean. If the population was large, if there were even consistently 50 people on the server...I could see the whole housing working. But when the server is already so small, it is hard to become a part of any RP when it is all private.
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No, no, housing definitely isn't the issue. I'd say the individuals pushing for private roleplay (while it's within their right to desire to do so) are cutting off the oxygen of the server as a whole.
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(11-05-2013, 09:07 AM)Rini Wrote: No, no, housing definitely isn't the issue. I'd say the individuals pushing for private roleplay (while it's within their right to desire to do so) are cutting off the oxygen of the server as a whole.

I think we're saying that mishandled housing is one of many sores on a very sick body. Plentiful housing enables that, but it's not THE issue.

It's one of many, that results from many more, tangled with many others.
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Oh, I didn't by any means mean that it was the only issue. I'm just saying that housing has given a reason for people to cut themselves off from the general population.

Maybe they are doing it because they think the quality of RP has gone down, that certain players are more a hindrance to their creativity, or that certain people they just won't get along with (Just picking some of the things that people have said throughout the thread) . All that matters is that in cutting themselves off, people are cutting out new people. So what, some people aren't as experienced as others. If they want to have people become better, they need to show them and help them along the way.


Ramble, ramble, ramble. I need some tea so I can be a little more coherent.
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(11-05-2013, 08:40 AM)Cressy Wrote: So, since coming back and trying to get RP...I say try because since returning, I have been allowed into maybe a handful of RPs.

You go into an area, ask if you may join the RP and are automatically denied.

"It is private." "We are in my home." Or even no responses.

I think one of the worst things to come to the server (as a whole) will be removing npcs from I stances, allowing for people to use them as their homes. New players or people who haven't networked aren't allowed in because the owners do not want strangers in their homes. But when that is all there is in the way of RP, you sort of get hosed. You don't want to beg to be let in, because most people respond negatively to that. I've spoken to a few people who have experienced this as well. We all get frustrated to the point you go, why am I still trying?

And the funny part about this, is that I wanted to do this for a long; remove npcs from certain instances. But it seems to spread out an already small community.

I could be wrong, I might just have terrible timing.

I dunno, I think even more restrictions to things on the basis of people excluding others is just another artificial restraint that doesn't really stop the problem. Instances're just as good for public events as they are for closed RP - which I should say, 'fore I look like I'm playing devil's advocate, I don't really do. And on the the side, there are already an infinite amount of empty spaces people can use to exclude players, provided they're okay with walking a bit further (or not at all if you use the RP locations like the Human Manor, etc.)

It's a people problem, not a things problem! If we start holding places to RP back from people on the basis that people could RP in them and not include others, I'm gonna be sour.

It might just be because I'm Australian and terrible timezones etc., but a lot of my events have been sparsely or not populated at all - impromptu and planned ahead of time (with forum posts and everything! I'm learning!). I think it's something to do with how I advertise them, but it might just be that people aren't using the forums as much as we'd like them to, and that's gotta change. That, or my events suck, which is kinda likely.

Then, after all that, it could just be that we're just running around going crazy about nothing and everyone's just preoccupied with work and education. It's possible!

EDIT: Oh god there are like twenty new posts this is a disaster




Move him into the sun—
Gently its touch awoke him once,
At home, whispering of fields half-sown.
Always it woke him, even in France,
Until this morning and this snow.
If anything might rouse him now
The kind old sun will know.

Think how it wakes the seeds,—
Woke, once, the clays of a cold star.
Are limbs, so dear-achieved, are sides,
Full-nerved—still warm—too hard to stir?
Was it for this the clay grew tall?
—O what made fatuous sunbeams toil
To break earth’s sleep at all?
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Reposting what I edited in above, since there was a little rush of posts and I'm not sure people saw it Sorry if this is pushy or double postingffff.

(11-05-2013, 08:58 AM)c0rzilla Wrote: Also, I think the very recent extreme emptiness of the server has to do with IRL issues. I mean, Reigen's Halloween event was all kinds of crowded, and Cappn's Westfall was doing well. The past week or so, I think people may be taking a bit of a break. Or being punched in the face by IRL.

Side note: A list of issues brought up here placed in the OP might be useful to read over

Edit: Another thought! I know I, personally, have had a sense of not knowing what to do with the huge changes and world Cataclysm provided. It's all great, and I don't regret changing. But...holy crap. I know we've had excursions into Vashj'ir, and Deepholme. But, aside from Tol Barad, efforts out into the world all seem small and hesitant and uncertain. As if the DMs are tensely poking something with big teeth with a stick.

I also think Kage's point of what makes people stay here should be noted as well. A bit more from me? I'm a Warcraft noob and haven't run out of stuff to explore and mold, I know that. I don't give up so easy, in regards to CotH. I like the close-knit environment where I can discuss ideas without feeling like an anonymous blob.
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Aha! The topic of Private rp! The most dreadful thing in the world (Expect under very specific circumstances [which of course is what people are using]) I said it before. I dislike private rp intensely. I try to keep things open. Why? We're too small of a server to keep up with two people private rping and a third person on the server not being able to join (Lets face it, the average is around five to ten people these days. If there are two groups of private rp consisting of 8 in total of the nine people online, that ninth person will go "Screw this." and log. I do it. I've seen people do it. Private rp is the bane of small communities. Once we're back up to around 20 people online as an average? Sure! Go crazy with yo private rp. But the server is just too -small- for it to be private.

Find a reason for someone to join instead of going "No. Go make your own rp if you want it so bad. This is private." Its happened. I hate it. Don't do it. Don't be that guy.
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(09-19-2013, 02:45 PM)muhaha8 Wrote: So, why I'm absent right now. Yeah. Let's begin.

I find myself thrown off by the community a lot these days. Back in the day--while it was still sparse--evil was strong, in that it was well-supported and balanced out, without constant conflicts. We didn't need it, and we assumed it would stay that way, pretty much forever. Things didn't really need to change.

We were kind of wrong.

Evil fell by the wayside, but not due to lack of trying. I know at least I have continually tried to revive it in a thousand shapes and sizes more times than I care to count. And each time it fails, and I now know why.

There are certain groups that pop up overnight, full of good characters. Alignment-wise, that is. And what's really driven me off is that more times than I can count, these groups somehow discover the secret lair of evil, and then bring their friends back and wreck it. I've seen more than I'd like, people make up reasons as to why they'd just know that a group is there, or simply use the excuse, "I got lost," and carry on. Then they miraculously escape impossible odds, and bring back their friends. Because being lost means you remember the way back to where you saw those bad men, right? No, it doesn't.

So yeah. Needless to say, when I feel slightly irrelevant because everytime I try to do something I like, it dies either due to nobody being willing to take the secondary role--everybody has to be the Big Bad--or due to some significant metagaming ruining the fun of those playing evil, it tends to drive me to not want to be there to do it. I'd love to see things like this fixed, but I'm somehow doubtful the community as a whole can completely realign itself. Pessimistic me.
This^
It's people Roleplaying in bubbles.

For example, when I first joined the server way way back when, my first ever character died. He died because he was a curious Gnome wandering around Southern EK with his curious Gnome buddy. Except, that curiosity lead him into Duskwood and eventually resulted in his soul being taken by a local Necromancer. A few days later, he perished.

Instead of forming this impassable bubble (like most people now-a-days), I rolled with the punches and took the consequences for my actions.

The last major event I was in on CotH was this fight between House guilds or whatever, I wasn't really paying attention ICly or OOCly as we were hired on for some extra muscle in case things went south. South things went. It resulted in over 10 or so players fighting each other. I shot the guy I was fighting with twice, once in the stomach and once in the leg, and he didn't even flinch. It's things like that, that make RP dull. If there is no real risk to your character, then where's the fun? World of Warcraft is a universe where demons, undead, magic, and steampunk technology exist. So why does everyone walk around like there's no real danger?

Oh right, "muh character".

And private RP has been plaguing CotH since the dark ages. There's nothing we can really do about that.
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I'll be that guy as much as I want to be really. Sometimes it's just nice to sit back and relax with a couple of people over a sudden swarm of people. Like when I get sick, I have a hard time dealing with a lot of people at once, so I'll just want to chill with some friends off in some location. I have private RP every now and then, and I'm not going to like feeling forced to open it. Most of all when someone already in the RP is inviting people left and right without asking others first [pet peeve of mine]. That sort of just kills some of the mood. Sometimes I don't want to deal with a lot of people.

At the same time, there needs to be a balance. Sure, I have private RP, but at the same time I also open large events that everyone can join. Like c0rzilla mentioned, the halloween Masquerade brought in a -lot- of people. RP lasted for...about eleven hours give or take. Which really only proves that if someone is willing to run it, people can and will come. It's just a matter of running something people want to join. While there are cool event ideas all around, people might just be tiring of battle events all day every day. I'm sure just hanging about making fools of themselves was a refreshing change.

I still don't think private RP is what's choking the server off. Is it part of it? Sure, but it's not the single handed thing that's doing it. I still stand by the fact that it's more the fact that people are so stubborn on what -they want- that they wont try out something new, they'd rather sit on GMI complaining about there being no RP than roll another character to join something on another faction/race/"I hate this race on principle so I won't make one.".
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I'm just going to pop back in and link this very agreeable thread from a GW2 RPing forum: The Rights of Roleplayers. The following rules are relevant to my point.

5) You have the right to roleplay with anyone who agrees to roleplay with you, for as long as they agree to roleplay with you.

6) You have the right to set standards for the kinds of roleplay you want to participate in.

8) You have the right to not roleplay with people that you don't enjoy.


No one is responsible for making sure everyone gets to roleplay, nor should anyone be held personally accountable for those who aren't able to find any. I sympathise with your plight, but nobody is obliged to roleplay with anyone else, nor should they be expected to or have their preferences condemned when they don't.

I recognise that there isn't much roleplay to be found on CotH nowadays outside of 'bubbles'. That is a shame, but you cannot fix this by forcing people to create open roleplay. Encourage them, by all means. Open roleplay creates a lot of fantastic opportunities for characters and players alike. Pressing or harassing people into open roleplay isn't the way to go about it, though.

I'm sorry that there are people who are having trouble with this, but that's not the fault of people who prefer private groups. There are far fewer people at CotH than there were before. Back when thirty to forty people were online during peak times, no one ever complained at the one or two off doing their own thing, away from the main groups. Now it seems those people are shouldering the blame for CotH's downfall! I never.

We are still a community, and working together will definitely bring us more fun. Don't doubt that. Nevertheless, the rights of others should always be respected.
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(11-05-2013, 09:57 AM)Reigen Wrote: I still stand by the fact that it's more the fact that people are so stubborn on what -they want- that they wont try out something new, they'd rather sit on GMI complaining about there being no RP than roll another character to join something on another faction/race/"I hate this race on principle so I won't make one.".

I agree with most of this. However, it's gotten to the point where people don't stand on GMI and complain. No, they've just dropped activity from the server altogether because there's nothing happening in their target RP. Could there have been a solution to this? Sure, if the person had enough time, energy, and ideas to host something, may it be a RP session or an event, then they could have. If they didn't want to put forth effort to try and do that, then interest in the server (and perhaps the setting) just isn't strong enough.

And if lore is the problem, I believe that it's often because people only roll with what has been established and don't expand upon it. I hear talk of custom lore often, but I believe that custom lore has existed on a mild scale throughout the server's existence. How is that? Well, there have been many events that have expanded upon the existing lore so that the event has more...character and depth to it. I could give shoutouts for examples of this being done, but that isn't the point here. The point is this: not everything you see in the lore has to be taken as is - you have your own interpretation of the lore, and if something about the lore is unsatisfactory, you have the ability to twist it with certain limits so that it's satisfactory again. Thing is, you just have to put a lot of idea and thought into it.

The reason for my inactivity when it comes to generating a RP session or an event is because I have to have the time to put a lot of thoughts and ideas into an event, and with 16 credit hours and other factors, I just don't have that time. And when I do have the time, I'm exhausted. I'm sure some people are in similar situations - school tends to tire people out.
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