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Northrend?
#31
Kaelvan, respectfully saying this, "Talking down to us isn't going to change the fact that we already did it and that there is nothing in our power to make it change; being talked at by a fellow grunt as if he is any greater than I am makes me less than tolerate you. More so than before when you did this."

I am going to say this since I know that either way I am most likely to be banned from this offense.

Now to the issue at hand. Many people went up to Northrend to grind level 1hp mobs, many people went up there to kill regular-hp mobs as well; all in a sad attempt to obtain gold and gear so that we can help the lower levels, obtain our own gear, and get skills.

Pre-WOTLK, CoTH would not experience this problem for several reasons. We grunts were given...FIVE BAJILLION GOLD(Okay, probably five thousand gold) and TEN GOLDEN TOKENS, so we could...

A. Get our skills. We could obtain all our skills so we could actually kill things at our level.
B. Pay for mount training. It is a lot easier to grind gold in outland with a regular flying mount/epic flying mount.
C. To buy gear from our Auction house bot. Reasonably priced it was with a virtually endless stock of things that many of us didn't want to attempt to get through grinding.
D. Did you guys see the picture of my RP gear? I could wear whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted.

Now saying this, we also had custom areas for RP gear, grinding gear, mounts, pets, skills that we couldn't obtain through bugged quests, and an area for grinding out your professions; all of which we don't have because it probably took quite a bit of time to get.

-IF- we didn't have all these things, there probably would have been more exploiting than what there was, if there was any.

So here is the new situation; ten extra levels which means ten extra levels of training, ten extra levels worth of gear grinding, and ten extra levels for us to find gear that will be successful in our grinding of gold.

Many people grinded gold in Northrend for skills and to get gear(I did mine to get flight form so I can go to my old grinding spot. Go figure flight form doesn't even work.). Everyone knew I spent today grinding things in Northrend, not trying to get the low hp mobs, but doing so anyways as they were in my way. The regular mobs were giving better loot, better gear, and better trash crap to sell (They also were killing me regularly, so who ever said they didn't attack was wrong.).

I am not trying to excuse my behavior, I knew, as well as the rest of the population who went out there. Did I figure that the GMs knew? Well, yes. I had heard about the 1hp mobs -from- a GM (I won't say the name out of respect, they know who they are.) and figured the GMs were aware, but were attempting to give back to us what they couldn't give to us in the first place. (Not that we deserve it, but if we were forced to level up at the regular retail pace, with the regular retail drops we wouldn't have an issue. It was designed to give us gear/money at the right speed if I am correct.) Did I want to read through articles on the forum bug section? Well, no. I am pregnant, hormonal, and want to kill things(in RP as well as OOCly). To say the least, I don't want to f*** with that sh**.

The point of this long post? It isn't as if we were doing it to score phat loots to buy dumb crap with. If we were allowed or given the things that a normal retail 80 had for grinding then it would be cool.

Also, I think a lot of us were pissed seeing GMs with all their skills, their choice of RP gear, and grinding gear when we were stuck with nothing. Did we say anything? No. It isn't our place to call out the GMs, but is it fair to us? We are what make your server alive. We give story lines and a variety of characters to weave into stories. Plus, a majority of us play on here more than the GMs are.

Anyways, I will quit this rant and take my ban for exploiting the system, even though I didn't go up there with just the intent to kill 1hp mobs. (Like I said, seven gold[EDIT: Silver. I wish it was seven gold.]? I could get better grinding trash mobs in HFP.)

Maybe this should not be just a learning experience for players, but for GMs as well.

It takes about two minutes to give someone gold, give them their levels and if they have the codes for their gear, give them their gear. I know this is an RP server, but skills/gear even being able to grind things is apart of RP on a MMO.

Since you willingly did take the plunge into the GM hood, maybe taking two extra minutes with a player would help keep this from happening?

Oh well.

We all make mistakes. Amirite?

<333

Cressy
[Image: anigif_mobile_9893b2566588ab845c7985f71769a9f2-7.gif]
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#32
To be completely honest, I understand how frustrating it is that we are not able to offer what we once had. The custom area's, the vendors, and all the gifts we give out were something that made CoTH a blast, and we all know this.

-However-, with that being said again, I think people have gained a sense of entitlement because of this. What that means, is that people have the mindset that they should be given the right to get what they want, when they want to get it, by whatever means they can.

Now, that is something that makes me sad to see. People are getting so centered around gear, or making your character -look- cool that they've disregarded the rules and went over our heads to do this.

Now, the GM that didn't tell us about this, was wrong. We are not infallable, and we are human- beleive it or not.

So, although I can understand your reasons, it doesn't make it right.
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#33
I don't think it is so much we were used to what you gave us.

We are all, if not most retailers. We are used to leveling and obtaining money/gear/skills at that pace. The fact that we get leveled f***s that all up.

I don't even think they we want to all look spiffy, I think it is that as much of RPers that we are, we still like the killing of mobs.

To be honest, if a mob was in my way on retail I would have killed it, so the fact that random 1hp mobs were around didn't even phase me. I didn't go searching for them, nor do I think many others did. So the assumption that we were exploiting these level 1hp mobs (THAT DROP SEVEN SILVER. Who ever grinds those must be patient as f***. I couldn't do it.) is wrong for many of us.

/shrug

I know we are going to be disciplined, but really. Maybe instead of leveling us when we get our approved profile, just say we can level the rest of the way. If you guys don't feel like spending two minutes to give us crap, then don't. But don't expect people to just want to run around in crap gear.

Like I said, is it fair for you GMs to have the uber 1337 RP gear while we are stuck with DM/Stock/RFC gear?

Not saying you -all- do. But I have seen -plenty- that do.

Edit: No offense, but saying that you are human really doesn't mean anything. We are human too, we make mistakes like you. So why the double standard?
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#34
It's not that we don't -want- to give you stuff. It's that we -can't-. We've said it over and over, no custom items or custom areas yet, and that includes silver tokens. If you can't even get Silver tokens you can't expect us to keep track of who has however many tokens without anything in-game to show it. Everyone will -eventually- be able to get their stuff, and bitching that you're stuck in crappy gear isn't going to help. It's a database thing.
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#35
Quote:Kaelvan, respectfully saying this, "Talking down to us isn't going to change the fact that we already did it and that there is nothing in our power to make it change; being talked at by a fellow grunt as if he is any greater than I am makes me less than tolerate you. More so than before when you did this."

Well, I never intended to talk down to -anyone- or to act as if I was superior to anyone. I am not superior to anyone and I don't wish to talk down to anyone. I am stating what the rules said and my opinion on the whole situation. I am sorry if you took it the way you did.

Quote:Edit: No offense, but saying that you are human really doesn't mean anything. We are human too, we make mistakes like you. So why the double standard?

Yes, and saying 'no offense' doesn't mean we don't take offense. If we wait untill the server is stable enough, we eventually get all that gear we have been waiting for, and it will be much sweeter. The best thing we can do is help people get better gear at this point.
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#36
We don't have a system devised to give you guys stuff, as what we had done would require a change to the database, which resets quite often at the moment. We've said multiple times that we wish for people to be patient, and to wait it out like we all have to.

Gold, and tokens are a hard thing to give out. We're sorry. We're trying to work things out, and I can't stress enough that it's hard on all of us.

But, again, that's not an excuse to go and use an exploit, then to say "Well, we don't get items or tokens, or gold."

Edit: And saying that we are human is something that we do because sometimes you guys expect miracles from us, and we cannot provide them.
[Image: desc_head_freemasons.jpg]

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#37
People seem to be throwing around phrases like... "Everyone makes mistakes." and "We are just human." on Both sides of the argument. Perhaps it would be a good idea to take that into consideration, instead of bashing the opposition with it.

In my opinion, this entire matter is being blown out of proportion. At first I wasn't going to say anything, y'know, play pacifist and let this whole thing blow away, but now, I feel really crumby about the way in which the situation is being handled.

GMs have a valid point

Offenders/players have a valid point.

We all can see that, no? From what I can tell emotions are high strung and this little offense has snowballed in a horrible way.

Luckily, I had no part in this, but earlier today (when I found out about it) I was considering going to Northrend to see if I couldn't get some gold from these one hit kill mobs. Now, not so much, but am I guilty too for wanting to take part in it?

I will be sore as anything to see Cressy go and I hope very much that it does not come to the higher ups bringing down the wrath of the Banhammer, please, don't let this get uglier than it has to be.

Please be sensible, don't be quick to take sides, and don't be quick to judge.
[Image: walrus_family_affair-2.gif]
"The time has come," the walrus said, "to talk of many things: Of shoes and ships - and sealing wax - of cabbages and kings" - Lewis Carrol
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#38
I really have to put in my word here.

The reason why some of the GMs have items and we don't is because they run the server after all, they aren't allowed to flex the powers entitled to them? The reason we don't get to have the gold and the tokens yet is because Kretol does all the programming and has yet to make the scripts to add the items. I'm sure they will be in soon enough, all everyone needs is a little patience. Sure, we used to get cool stuff back then, but just because they haven't been reimplemented yet doesn't mean you need to make a huge story saying that the GMs are withholding stuff from us. IT WILL COME IN DUE TIME. As for wanting gear, just browse modelviewer and wowhead for something that isn't tier7, rip your face off, I'm a God gear because there are some really cool looking low level stuff that just takes some determination to find. And as for helping the lowbies or anyone for that matter get gear, do you -really- need it, sure it's handy when your character has super flashy, matching epic gear, but the point of this server is character interaction not "lulz i luk cooler den u and kan keel mobs kwiker wiff mah uber dps". So what if your character is a tad miss matched, there are vendors in cities that have matching armor sets if it really matters that much. Sorry if the server isn't as 'up to par' as it used to be Cressy, sorry if you feel it necessary to grand exit for attention on the matter.
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Huh, I guess I am what my main is. o.O
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#39
But, seeing the point that you guys, the players are making... and let me get it straight, it's that you don't like that we don't have the items, armor, and money we used to offer right? Understandable.

But -why- resort to breaking the rules when we ask you guys to be patient? It takes extreme advantage of our good will, in making custom items, and shows an extreme lack of faith in what we are doing for you guys. All we ask for is patience with the database. We ask that you adhere to our rules. And you guys have seen what we have done in the past.

It wouldn't be so frustrating if this wasn't on a huge scale level with people knowing about this. If someone had brought this to our attention, we would have taken care of it.


As for us GMs having items, that's a perk of the things we do. And, if you haven't noticed, it's a -recent- perk, which is a sign we are working towards things, but all you guys really see is that we have loot an you don't.

I don't even know what to say anymore, other than stress that there is an obvious lack of paitence.
Eventually we will have what we once had, and things will be back to normal. But breaking our rules to get something you feel entitled to is... disheartening.
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#40
I really didn't mean to make this as heated as it is, but, I AM PREGNANT. I AM GOING TO B****.

I think this topic has moved on from it's original intent, and for this, I am dropping it, accepting my much expectant ban.

The only reason I voiced it as I did was because...To be honest, I am not the only person who feels this way. -Many- people on your server feel this way; maybe the pregnant one is the only one who will actually say something? Hmm.

Either way...

Good night everyone and goodbye.


P.S.

Rensin, half of us weren't killing them to grind gold. Like I said before, they were in our way or attacking us. But since everyone thinks we are exploiting impatient horrible people, then believe we were doing it for that.


Oh! And.

/waves Bye Kretol!
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#41
Rensin, Though I agree with you 100% here. I think that is a bit quick to judge. The majority of the people I know on this server have the patience and are willing to wait for all the custom gear, as am I. But when something like this happens and it is brought to such a major scale that it is being seen by everyone and commented on. It seems like nobody is patient. I believe there are more that are willing to wait then you think, and untill then. I am content with helping lower level people run things to get some gear.
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#42
Clarifying what I was trying to say.

People forget.

People make mistakes.

People are not perfect.

People are not the same.

People are usually reasonable.

I do not beleive -ANYONE- intentionally broke the rules. No one (Grunt, Peon, or GM) said to themselves.

"Hey, y'know that glitch in Northrend... I'mma go exploit it..."

or

"Hey, lets deny cool stuffs to the lower ranked ppl and horde it all to ourselves... OMG they are going for lewt! Stop them!"

No one said that! No one. Ugh, I hope that got it across.
[Image: walrus_family_affair-2.gif]
"The time has come," the walrus said, "to talk of many things: Of shoes and ships - and sealing wax - of cabbages and kings" - Lewis Carrol
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#43
Cressy Wrote:Also, I think a lot of us were pissed seeing GMs with all their skills, their choice of RP gear, and grinding gear when we were stuck with nothing. Did we say anything? No. It isn't our place to call out the GMs, but is it fair to us? We are what make your server alive. We give story lines and a variety of characters to weave into stories. Plus, a majority of us play on here more than the GMs are.

Anyways, I will quit this rant and take my ban for exploiting the system, even though I didn't go up there with just the intent to kill 1hp mobs. (Like I said, seven gold[EDIT: Silver. I wish it was seven gold.]? I could get better grinding trash mobs in HFP.)

Maybe this should not be just a learning experience for players, but for GMs as well.

It takes about two minutes to give someone gold, give them their levels and if they have the codes for their gear, give them their gear. I know this is an RP server, but skills/gear even being able to grind things is apart of RP on a MMO.


Let's put this hyperbole into perspective.

Let's say that it takes about five minutes to give someone their levels and gear, combined (fairly accurate on average, since most don't have their item numbers so we have to look them up.) There are 58 people within the Grunts group at this point in time. Let's say for argument that each has three characters (conservative, some have less but many have more). It would therefore take...

58 x 3 = 174 characters. 174 x 5 = 870 minutes. 870 / 60 = 14.5 hours. Fourteen and a half hours of doing nothing but leveling and granting people gear.

Think about that for a moment.
Have you hugged an orc today?
- I am not tech support. Please do not contact me regarding technical issues. -
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#44
You could always up the drop rates so people don't have to bother the GMs, or spend all the time they should be RPing on grinding gear.

God forbid we make this too easy.
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#45
Well. This is... interesting to come back to. Y'all are lucky I've had a fairly relaxing day.

Stop throwing around accusations, and stop being hostile. The GMs clarified that exploitation is against the rules, and that you should listen to the little voice in your head that says "hm... that was too easy, I'll bet that's a bug".

No GM threw around any threats of banning. It is unfortunate that Cressy seemed to feel that way. She would not have been issued a ban unless we decided that ALL of those involved would get one. I'm disappointed to see that she decided to make an exit, and I do hope she finds a place that suits her needs.

I'd suggest everyone take a step back, disengage for a bit, and let the dust settle.
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