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The Runemaster Rework
#16
(01-12-2014, 06:34 PM)Harmonic Wrote: Grak, you outright said you would like to see it "stomped on". You -are- an admin. I understand that you were sharing an opinion, but sharing an opinion like that does have weight, heh. I'm not taking you out of context, I'm quoting -exactly- what you said, and how I interpreted it and how I'd feel a lot of people would interpret it.

It's out of context. Look at the very top of the post you quoted:

Quote:Note that I am not setting down rules here. This is my blog where I put forth my thoughts and gather feedback for those thoughts. Please don't take anything I say here as "This is the way that things are going to be." Anything can be subject to change.
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#17
Thanks for the clarification. That's all I asked for, heh. I don't mean to draw anyone's ire, I'm not being agressive, I'm just looking for reasons and clarification for things that I thought. It's fine saying I'm wrong, but I'm I'm not trying to twist words or impose anything, I'm just trying to figure it out.

(01-12-2014, 06:39 PM)Grakor456 Wrote:
(01-12-2014, 06:34 PM)Harmonic Wrote: Grak, you outright said you would like to see it "stomped on". You -are- an admin. I understand that you were sharing an opinion, but sharing an opinion like that does have weight, heh. I'm not taking you out of context, I'm quoting -exactly- what you said, and how I interpreted it and how I'd feel a lot of people would interpret it.

It's out of context. Look at the very top of the post you quoted:

Quote:Note that I am not setting down rules here. This is my blog where I put forth my thoughts and gather feedback for those thoughts. Please don't take anything I say here as "This is the way that things are going to be." Anything can be subject to change.

Okay. I understand that. But when you say you want to see it stomped on... regardless of saying it's not a firm rule yet, you're saying you'd like to say it changed and with your position you have the power to go through the motions to see it changed.

I'm not saying you can't share opinions. I'm not "twisting" it, I'm looking for clarification. Thank you for providing that, but as usual, I think we are miscommunication to a large degree.

I'm not trying to offend you or anyone, but it seems that offense is being drawn.
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#18
(01-12-2014, 06:41 PM)Harmonic Wrote: Okay. I understand that. But when you say you want to see it stomped on... regardless of saying it's not a firm rule yet, you're saying you'd like to say it changed and with your position you have the power to go through the motions to see it changed.

I'm not saying you can't share opinions. I'm not "twisting" it, I'm looking for clarification. Thank you for providing that, but as usual, I think we are miscommunication to a large degree.

I'm not trying to offend you or anyone, but it seems that offense is being drawn.

This conversation started because you said that I said Runemasters weren't something people could do anymore. If I'm upset, it's because you continue to press the issue by saying that my post implied it when I said at the very beginning that I wasn't making policy.

Sure, if I really wanted to, I could change it. But there are several things I don't like or would personally want to see changed that I don't change, because I respect the playerbase enough to not completely change the server to fit my every whim. I think the last time I had any meaningful impact on policy (that didn't have to do with server rules) was the prestige system removal. I've made every effort to stay away from meddling too much with CotH's creative direction, so I do take offense when others imply that I'm not doing so.
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#19
Haha, I'm not pressing anything! I agree! I agree! All I wanted was clarification, and that's what I got. I'm not pressing anything, other than saying I was confused, and providing the reason I was confused.

I'm not saying the post implied that. I'm saying MY IMPRESSION of it was that because you -are- an admin. Completely my fault. Exactly why I looked for clarification. You provided it, so I really don't know why you're getting mad at me, or upset, because I'm -clearly stating- right now that I was confused and asked for clarification.

So thank you. Awesome. My questions were answered. Am I really being a jerk here?
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#20
My apologies, then. As I said, I've made a conscious effort to not meddle in CotH's creative direction, so implications to the contrary are something of a sore spot with me.
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#21
(01-12-2014, 07:33 PM)Grakor456 Wrote: My apologies, then. As I said, I've made a conscious effort to not meddle in CotH's creative direction, so implications to the contrary are something of a sore spot with me.

Understandable. Wasn't my intention, I just perceived it as something it was not. I'm all clear now, so it shouldn't be a problem.
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#22
It's totally not on the topic of Runemasters, but guys that make-up chat was just beautiful.


Anyways. Runemasters. Yep, now I know how it works, and I may actually make one some time soon.
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#23
If I may pop in again, I think the restriction to Warrior is going to do more hurt than help. You're trying to make something more popular of a choice, so you limit it? I would keep it away from primarily-ranged classes, but at least open up to those around melee - Warrior, Shaman, Rogue - that could do such a thing.
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#24
I would agree with Squirrel here. Especially when talking about the different types of Runemasters. For example, a Runemaster focused on speed and quick attacks would (in my mind anyway) be a Rogue OOCly because Rogues are just quicker attackers. Whereas a Runemaster focused on protection and/or slow heavy attacks be considered a Warrior OOCly because of there OOC skillset. Just my two cents.
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#25
Hmm. I'd have preferred that way as well, as I mentioned before.

It turns what was originally a variant flavour into a class of its own, but restricts that flavour in doing so. You can roll a mage, who uses arcane purely for spells in the conventional sense, but you are also allowed to roll things like arcane archers, who use arcane to explain the hunter class. With this, we can have runemasters, but using runes to explain the abilities of other classes is no longer possible. It seems odd, I agree.
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#26
The previous system was entirely too open-ended, odd as that may sound. As much as we want to let people do different things with the variant system, the previous way we had runemasters working was not at all in line with what they actually were, based off the RPG: unarmored, melee fighters who could buff themselves with runes. In the last incarnation of runemasters, we had everything from that standard archetype to mage runemasters who threw rune pyroblasts and other spells to paladin runemasters who emulated all of the paladin spells through runes. Runemasters were never meant to be a variant flavor for other classes. It's a class of it's own, but it was rarely used as such.

The point of this change was to move away from "X class but runemaster" and back to "actually a runemaster." The runemaster is a variant flavor of its own; it's not quite a warrior, but it's definitely not a mage either. We use warrior as the base class for the same reason we make blood mages warlocks; it's the best, simplest representation we have through in-game mechanics. You can still make a speed-focused runemaster. Not all warriors are lumbering brutes who take lots of hits and make ponderous swings. Being a rogue implies a set of abilities (stealth, backstabbing, poisons, shadow-ish techniques, etc) that aren't associated with the runemaster. Finesse fighting can still be done as a warrior. It's the same for shaman; we don't want rune frost shocks or fireblasts or rune totems again. It's not in the class's flavor. We aren't restricting the runemaster's flavor, we're giving it its flavor back, rather than having it reduced to being "X class through runes."
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#27
I always saw a class as a description of what a specific character can do. Having runemasters that spreads over all classes doesn't make it a class, it makes it more of a profession or skill that can be easily learned by anyone. So I'm sure if a warrior would be able to use a rune that gives a slight attribute increase (like speed), it would be permitted, as stated earlier in this post.

Now only an admin and a peon needs to like JVNemesis's post and there will be a nice rainbow of likes.

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#28
I will admit, this more always seemed to fit Rogue to me, because a lot of the "Fist" abilities fit a rogue's skillset. Plus, the rogue class can't do the full plate armor. When I've made monks, a similar class, I've always went with rogue because I felt like that was the closer thing.

Warrior seems to heavily armored and weapon-centric.
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#29
They are, but seeing as the Warrior class is more available (Tauren and Draenei, for instance, can't be Rogues and there are definitely instances of Tauren Runemasters), that base class was chosen with the restrictions and conditions added on as detailed in the original post. Armour and the like will just render the runes themselves null, and if people want to do that... well, have fun with that, I guess. It just defeats the point of making a Runemaster in the first place. :P
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#30
(01-13-2014, 09:28 AM)Loxmardin Wrote: They are, but seeing as the Warrior class is more available (Tauren and Draenei, for instance, can't be Rogues and there are definitely instances of Tauren Runemasters), that base class was chosen with the restrictions and conditions added on as detailed in the original post. Armour and the like will just render the runes themselves null, and if people want to do that... well, have fun with that, I guess. It just defeats the point of making a Runemaster in the first place. :P

Good point.
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