<![CDATA[Conquest of the Horde - Grakor's Blog]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/ Sat, 18 Apr 2026 12:51:44 +0000 MyBB <![CDATA[MUD Checklist and Dev Notes]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-39200.html Fri, 06 Feb 2015 17:21:20 -0800 Grakor456]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-39200.html
-= Immediate Goals =-

- Update the race list.
- Come up with some basic race and history lore. Put these in the appropriate help files.
- Build the initial location for RP. Probably a trade town of some kind.
- Rename the mud. Kretol has a placeholder name right now, so we need to think up something snazzy.
- Set up additional staff ranks aside from the default Archon (not everyone on staff needs admin privs, guys.)

-= Short-term Goals =-

- Examine base classes and the stock sub-classes, see what we want to keep and what we want to toss.
- More races are always possible.
- More town areas, especially racial capitols.
- First actual adventure areas for leveling.
- More lore writing. Deities and locations need to be written.

-= Long-term Goals =-

- Potentially creating our own classes and sub-classes.
- More areas. Always more areas.
- Player housing.
- Player clans.
- Conquest locations.
- More stuff I'm sure I'll remember later and put down here in a future update.

-= Dev Notes =-

- Probably keeping CoffeeMUD's class system, using AppSub. Everyone starts as an Apprentice, which is a basic commoner class, and can then advance to a chosen base class. from there, they can level up in different sub-classes of that base class, allowing limited multiclassing so long as they're all part of the same base class. (Example, Apprentice to Fighter, and then taking levels in both Ranger and Paladin as they are Fighter sub-classes.)
- System allows for interesting things for class development, including penalizing spellcasting if you're not the proper alignment, and restricting certain classes/sub-classes to certain races. Not sure how much I'll want to use this, but keeping it in mind for later.]]>
-= Immediate Goals =-

- Update the race list.
- Come up with some basic race and history lore. Put these in the appropriate help files.
- Build the initial location for RP. Probably a trade town of some kind.
- Rename the mud. Kretol has a placeholder name right now, so we need to think up something snazzy.
- Set up additional staff ranks aside from the default Archon (not everyone on staff needs admin privs, guys.)

-= Short-term Goals =-

- Examine base classes and the stock sub-classes, see what we want to keep and what we want to toss.
- More races are always possible.
- More town areas, especially racial capitols.
- First actual adventure areas for leveling.
- More lore writing. Deities and locations need to be written.

-= Long-term Goals =-

- Potentially creating our own classes and sub-classes.
- More areas. Always more areas.
- Player housing.
- Player clans.
- Conquest locations.
- More stuff I'm sure I'll remember later and put down here in a future update.

-= Dev Notes =-

- Probably keeping CoffeeMUD's class system, using AppSub. Everyone starts as an Apprentice, which is a basic commoner class, and can then advance to a chosen base class. from there, they can level up in different sub-classes of that base class, allowing limited multiclassing so long as they're all part of the same base class. (Example, Apprentice to Fighter, and then taking levels in both Ranger and Paladin as they are Fighter sub-classes.)
- System allows for interesting things for class development, including penalizing spellcasting if you're not the proper alignment, and restricting certain classes/sub-classes to certain races. Not sure how much I'll want to use this, but keeping it in mind for later.]]> <![CDATA[For those potentially interested in Mudding...]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-39195.html Thu, 05 Feb 2015 17:19:41 -0800 Grakor456]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-39195.html
In fact, they kind of do. Following the drop of CotH itself, Kretol and I talked about it and the idea of running a MUD came up. I know he's mentioned it before to some people, but the idea has been getting traction and we may be making a serious attempt at it. This gives us a number of advantages over running CotH...it being perfectly legal is a big one, but also the lack of reliance on graphics means that we're more open to creating our own world and developing our own lore without being reliant on the game engine or Warcraft's setting.

So this leads to the question posed in this thread, detailing the kind of setting that we are going to be creating, and seeing if there is enough interest to go ahead with it. The idea will almost certainly be medieval fantasy of some sort, though we have a number of possibilities going in.

Covering myself here, but disclaimer: I am in no way binding myself to the results of the poll. This is just an interest check.

I do have a number of my own ideas already forming, taking inspiration from a number of sources. Since Kretol is sort of putting me in charge of general world-building for this idea, I'll mention that I enjoy making settings that put new spins on old cliches, or otherwise go outside the box a bit. A few lesser-known games are inspiring certain ideas for me (in particular, "Tales of Maj'eyal" and "Geneforge", if you're curious,) but let's see what everyone wants to see.

The current plan, if we go ahead with this, is to get a basic area, race list, and class list out so that basic RP can begin, and worry about the actual game mechanics after that. We'll be using CoffeeMUD as a base, which is easy to edit and is still seeing active development. It has a number of neat features, like us being able to edit a large number of aspects of the game from the web browser instead of in-game. Once we have an idea of the direction we're going, specifically, I'll be making a checklist and begin work. Again, if there's interest in seeing this project take off.]]>
In fact, they kind of do. Following the drop of CotH itself, Kretol and I talked about it and the idea of running a MUD came up. I know he's mentioned it before to some people, but the idea has been getting traction and we may be making a serious attempt at it. This gives us a number of advantages over running CotH...it being perfectly legal is a big one, but also the lack of reliance on graphics means that we're more open to creating our own world and developing our own lore without being reliant on the game engine or Warcraft's setting.

So this leads to the question posed in this thread, detailing the kind of setting that we are going to be creating, and seeing if there is enough interest to go ahead with it. The idea will almost certainly be medieval fantasy of some sort, though we have a number of possibilities going in.

Covering myself here, but disclaimer: I am in no way binding myself to the results of the poll. This is just an interest check.

I do have a number of my own ideas already forming, taking inspiration from a number of sources. Since Kretol is sort of putting me in charge of general world-building for this idea, I'll mention that I enjoy making settings that put new spins on old cliches, or otherwise go outside the box a bit. A few lesser-known games are inspiring certain ideas for me (in particular, "Tales of Maj'eyal" and "Geneforge", if you're curious,) but let's see what everyone wants to see.

The current plan, if we go ahead with this, is to get a basic area, race list, and class list out so that basic RP can begin, and worry about the actual game mechanics after that. We'll be using CoffeeMUD as a base, which is easy to edit and is still seeing active development. It has a number of neat features, like us being able to edit a large number of aspects of the game from the web browser instead of in-game. Once we have an idea of the direction we're going, specifically, I'll be making a checklist and begin work. Again, if there's interest in seeing this project take off.]]> <![CDATA[Updates on Me and the Server]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-38815.html Mon, 10 Nov 2014 16:14:05 -0800 Grakor456]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-38815.html
I think I've made no secret in the past that I suffer from recurring depression. I also suffer from a rather crippling social anxiety that often robs me of the ability to properly communicate in RL situations. This has been true for years, but it was only recently that I had the proper drive, and discovered means, to actually get help for any of that. The good news is that I'm currently taking medication (and am scheduled to get therapy) that may help, and we'll see how things progress from there.

The bad news is that I recently had a break-up with my boyfriend. I won't get into the specifics, but I'll say that we didn't part on the best of terms and the relationship was causing additional stress and worry on me, and I need as little stress and worry as I can get given the circumstances if I'm hoping to really recover. Unfortunately, this also effectively killed my RL social life as most of my outside contact was through him. Needless to say, I have a lot of work ahead of me when it comes to trying to get back out into the world, and it won't be an easy journey for me.

So, RL circumstances have effectively put a halt on my own contributions to server progression, particularly in regards to expanding lore. That said, we haven't been entirely idle.

One thing I want to highlight and talk about for a moment is that there was a change in server policy recently. Particularly, GMs are going to be required to make profiles for their personal, non-event characters now. (Event characters are still exempt from the profile requirement to help facilitate the production of events.) I've had complaints directed at me before regarding GMs skipping the profile process. In the past, we justified the exemption by saying that it gave GMs more time to dedicate to crafting events and fostering roleplay in the community. However, in retrospect I think it didn't work out the way we planned. So, we're trying to set things up so that GMs and players are on more even footing when it comes to what they can and cannot do with their characters.

That's about all I have for the moment. Need to fight this headache that's creeping up.]]>
I think I've made no secret in the past that I suffer from recurring depression. I also suffer from a rather crippling social anxiety that often robs me of the ability to properly communicate in RL situations. This has been true for years, but it was only recently that I had the proper drive, and discovered means, to actually get help for any of that. The good news is that I'm currently taking medication (and am scheduled to get therapy) that may help, and we'll see how things progress from there.

The bad news is that I recently had a break-up with my boyfriend. I won't get into the specifics, but I'll say that we didn't part on the best of terms and the relationship was causing additional stress and worry on me, and I need as little stress and worry as I can get given the circumstances if I'm hoping to really recover. Unfortunately, this also effectively killed my RL social life as most of my outside contact was through him. Needless to say, I have a lot of work ahead of me when it comes to trying to get back out into the world, and it won't be an easy journey for me.

So, RL circumstances have effectively put a halt on my own contributions to server progression, particularly in regards to expanding lore. That said, we haven't been entirely idle.

One thing I want to highlight and talk about for a moment is that there was a change in server policy recently. Particularly, GMs are going to be required to make profiles for their personal, non-event characters now. (Event characters are still exempt from the profile requirement to help facilitate the production of events.) I've had complaints directed at me before regarding GMs skipping the profile process. In the past, we justified the exemption by saying that it gave GMs more time to dedicate to crafting events and fostering roleplay in the community. However, in retrospect I think it didn't work out the way we planned. So, we're trying to set things up so that GMs and players are on more even footing when it comes to what they can and cannot do with their characters.

That's about all I have for the moment. Need to fight this headache that's creeping up.]]> <![CDATA[Race/Class Expansion 2, The Ramble Begins]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-38686.html Sat, 11 Oct 2014 16:56:00 -0700 Grakor456]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-38686.html
So, overwhelming vote is to bring "some, but not all" of the class combinations into the light. Hooray gnome hunters! Then I realize, with growing horror, the problem inherent with this kind of vote. How the heck am I supposed to stick with that resolution and not piss off half the playerbase no matter what I do? OH GOD HELP SOMEONE SAVE ME I WAS WRONG I APOLOGIZE JUST GET ME OUT OF HERE AHHHHHHH!

So, consider the following situations or ways that we could tackle this:

Edited Note: These are not poll options. These are ways that this could have been handled, but we're not choosing to pursue because of the listed problems inherent with them.

1. GMs vote amongst themselves and create a list of combinations we really don't want to see and we have those "DO NOT WANT" combinations barred. This results in the playerbase angrily saying that they didn't have a voice in what was or was not barred ("WHAT DO YOU MEAN I CAN'T BE A GOBLIN DRUID, WHAT IS THIS STUPIDITY?" along with "WHO WAS THE MORON THAT SAID THAT DRAENEI WARLOCK WAS OKAY?!") and that we're just imposing our own desires on the server as a whole. At the same time, from our perspective this creates a situation where players can't "Wow" us and make an argument that we hadn't thought of before that could make something make perfect sense and allow a great story.

2. We take each combination as they come and just roll with it, and hope that in the end the chips rest in a way that works out for everyone. This is a bit...luck-based by my reckoning and creates an issue that we often have to be faced with: in this sort of system it's very hard to say, conclusively, "no." Much like profiles, this would create a situation where people would change things in order to capitulate to our problems/demands, and that leads to eventually everything getting passed.

3. We open up polls for every possible combination and see what popular opinion decides. This is wonderfully democratic, but sometimes democracy isn't all it's cracked up to be. For one, this minimizes the ability for players to communicate their own amazing ideas before the votes start rolling in. For two, there are concerns that votes will end up skewed due to a number of factors, primarily the people who didn't want to see this system be implemented at all. This answer is also extremely time-consuming and involves a lot of clutter.

4. Do #2, but with imposed limitations, For example, put down rules that "no one race can have all classes and no race can get more than two new classes" or something along those lines. Which sounds cool, unless you're that guy that wants troll paladins. It also makes the whole thing kind of rigid and the limitations artificial. This also creates a very "first good poster wins" kind of situation and I'm not sure that's ideal here.

What do?

It seems that no matter how it's approached, there's going to be the inevitability that some folks are going to be unhappy. Heck, some folks are unhappy that the idea got passed at all. So our job is to work this in so that the most people possible are happy while the fewest possible people are angry. I know, I know, "YOU HAVE FUN WITH THAT!"

We're still discussing internally how to approach the issue, but you're free to comment on stuff here.

...

YOU HAVE FUN WITH THAT!]]>
So, overwhelming vote is to bring "some, but not all" of the class combinations into the light. Hooray gnome hunters! Then I realize, with growing horror, the problem inherent with this kind of vote. How the heck am I supposed to stick with that resolution and not piss off half the playerbase no matter what I do? OH GOD HELP SOMEONE SAVE ME I WAS WRONG I APOLOGIZE JUST GET ME OUT OF HERE AHHHHHHH!

So, consider the following situations or ways that we could tackle this:

Edited Note: These are not poll options. These are ways that this could have been handled, but we're not choosing to pursue because of the listed problems inherent with them.

1. GMs vote amongst themselves and create a list of combinations we really don't want to see and we have those "DO NOT WANT" combinations barred. This results in the playerbase angrily saying that they didn't have a voice in what was or was not barred ("WHAT DO YOU MEAN I CAN'T BE A GOBLIN DRUID, WHAT IS THIS STUPIDITY?" along with "WHO WAS THE MORON THAT SAID THAT DRAENEI WARLOCK WAS OKAY?!") and that we're just imposing our own desires on the server as a whole. At the same time, from our perspective this creates a situation where players can't "Wow" us and make an argument that we hadn't thought of before that could make something make perfect sense and allow a great story.

2. We take each combination as they come and just roll with it, and hope that in the end the chips rest in a way that works out for everyone. This is a bit...luck-based by my reckoning and creates an issue that we often have to be faced with: in this sort of system it's very hard to say, conclusively, "no." Much like profiles, this would create a situation where people would change things in order to capitulate to our problems/demands, and that leads to eventually everything getting passed.

3. We open up polls for every possible combination and see what popular opinion decides. This is wonderfully democratic, but sometimes democracy isn't all it's cracked up to be. For one, this minimizes the ability for players to communicate their own amazing ideas before the votes start rolling in. For two, there are concerns that votes will end up skewed due to a number of factors, primarily the people who didn't want to see this system be implemented at all. This answer is also extremely time-consuming and involves a lot of clutter.

4. Do #2, but with imposed limitations, For example, put down rules that "no one race can have all classes and no race can get more than two new classes" or something along those lines. Which sounds cool, unless you're that guy that wants troll paladins. It also makes the whole thing kind of rigid and the limitations artificial. This also creates a very "first good poster wins" kind of situation and I'm not sure that's ideal here.

What do?

It seems that no matter how it's approached, there's going to be the inevitability that some folks are going to be unhappy. Heck, some folks are unhappy that the idea got passed at all. So our job is to work this in so that the most people possible are happy while the fewest possible people are angry. I know, I know, "YOU HAVE FUN WITH THAT!"

We're still discussing internally how to approach the issue, but you're free to comment on stuff here.

...

YOU HAVE FUN WITH THAT!]]> <![CDATA[Grakor Grumbles: Race/Class Expansions]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-38508.html Sun, 07 Sep 2014 11:33:22 -0700 Grakor456]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-38508.html
With the discussions of custom lore, as well as a few consultations with Kretol, the GM team started joking about opening up new race/class combinations...and that joke turned into serious discussion. Now, we have the opportunity to actually do this, and make use of the stance on custom lore to boot. Not only would this open up some RP opportunities, but it'd potentially create storylines and new organizations.

How Will This Work?

The idea is not just to create more character combinations, but also to create roleplay situations and storylines. New potential combinations may rely on additional, added lore to explain: for example, everyone already knows about Sunwalkers, who are Tauren "sun druids" that happen to use the paladin class. They are paladins who use the magic of the sun to explain their powers. In a similar vein, new race/class combinations may have their own organizations or explanations to create roleplay: for example, an orc paladin may call upon the ancestral power of the spirits to be a sort of spirit champion, and be a "paladin" that way. Gnomes may create a new organization expressly to help them survive in the cold wilds outside of Ironforge, and create hunters. More thought would need to go into it than just these things, but you get an idea.

After an idea has been born, then a storyline is made of a character, either old or new for this express purpose, undergoes the trials and hardships of learning and discovering a new path for his/her people. At this point, the GMs work with the player and craft a story for that and other interested characters, which then concludes in a new combination being "unlocked" for future characters to take.

Note that due to the actual implementation, new combinations may take special profiles and the like in the future.

In short, this is a way to go on quests to discover new forms of magic, and actually create organizations that may interact with future lore.

What Combinations Will Be Eligible?

Due to the difficulty of explaining certain combinations, some ideas will be more readily accepted than others. Undead druids may be almost impossible to explain, as an example. Of course, any combination can be proposed...you may just need a particularly excellent proposal to sway opinions.

But This Depends On You!

What do you think about this idea? Do you want to see storylines of this nature? Or do you think the combinations are fine as-is?

Do you have any questions? Suggestions on how to implement these ideas? Post.

Note: we're not starting with this just yet, this post is to help gauge interest.]]>
With the discussions of custom lore, as well as a few consultations with Kretol, the GM team started joking about opening up new race/class combinations...and that joke turned into serious discussion. Now, we have the opportunity to actually do this, and make use of the stance on custom lore to boot. Not only would this open up some RP opportunities, but it'd potentially create storylines and new organizations.

How Will This Work?

The idea is not just to create more character combinations, but also to create roleplay situations and storylines. New potential combinations may rely on additional, added lore to explain: for example, everyone already knows about Sunwalkers, who are Tauren "sun druids" that happen to use the paladin class. They are paladins who use the magic of the sun to explain their powers. In a similar vein, new race/class combinations may have their own organizations or explanations to create roleplay: for example, an orc paladin may call upon the ancestral power of the spirits to be a sort of spirit champion, and be a "paladin" that way. Gnomes may create a new organization expressly to help them survive in the cold wilds outside of Ironforge, and create hunters. More thought would need to go into it than just these things, but you get an idea.

After an idea has been born, then a storyline is made of a character, either old or new for this express purpose, undergoes the trials and hardships of learning and discovering a new path for his/her people. At this point, the GMs work with the player and craft a story for that and other interested characters, which then concludes in a new combination being "unlocked" for future characters to take.

Note that due to the actual implementation, new combinations may take special profiles and the like in the future.

In short, this is a way to go on quests to discover new forms of magic, and actually create organizations that may interact with future lore.

What Combinations Will Be Eligible?

Due to the difficulty of explaining certain combinations, some ideas will be more readily accepted than others. Undead druids may be almost impossible to explain, as an example. Of course, any combination can be proposed...you may just need a particularly excellent proposal to sway opinions.

But This Depends On You!

What do you think about this idea? Do you want to see storylines of this nature? Or do you think the combinations are fine as-is?

Do you have any questions? Suggestions on how to implement these ideas? Post.

Note: we're not starting with this just yet, this post is to help gauge interest.]]> <![CDATA[Grakor Grumbles: Subraces]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-37374.html Sun, 02 Feb 2014 22:08:05 -0800 Grakor456]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-37374.html
Keep in mind that the current ideas are still a work in progress and are subject to change.

I'm going to make this rather brief in order to get to the meat of what this is about. Discussion regarding "subraces" has occurred and the okay was given from Kretol to be more lenient with regards to CMC requests for these. Now, a few things here:

Why must things like forest trolls and mag'har be CMC'd at all? Primarily for readability. The difference between a forest troll and a jungle troll, or a green orc and a mag'har, is pretty significant as far as physical differences and how they are treated culturally. For that reason, it's important that on a graphical RP medium like WoW, that a character's race be easily readable at a glance.

How will this new lenience work, then? As Loxy and Reigen are being given the ability to CMC, the commands for changing models is actually not that bad. The idea is to still limit these new types of character, however, to prevent over-saturation. Subrace characters would then be allowed on main accounts, but players would be limited to one per player (not counting against their "real" CMC limit.) Approval for these would go much faster, however.

What is a "subrace"? Essentially, variants on the current races that would realistically fit within the given factions. Current ideas: mag'har, taunka, forest trolls, and broken being the main culprits, though this system could conceivably also be used for people that want the specific skins for things like dark irons, Wildhammer dwarves, Blackrocks, and Dragonmaw orcs. Note, however, that this list is subject to additions or subtractions, we're still juggling possibilities.

What about high elves? This is where things get sticky, and the ultimate reason I'm putting this in my blog. The subject of high elves came up during the GM discussions with this, and it would be inevitable that it would come up from the playerbase.

Here's the thing: Blizzard originally added blood elves to the Horde for a very specific purpose: to boost the popularity of the Horde and add a more conventionally attractive race to its numbers to draw in more players that might be turned off by the Horde's looks otherwise. On CotH, the blood elves serve the same purpose. With Horde RP rather shaky even at the best of times, and much (though admittedly not all) of that RP ending up being dependent on blood elven presence, the addition of high elves serves as a very possible threat to Horde activity. People who may have once rolled blood elves would feel compelled to go for high elves in order to get the more frequent Alliance RP, and this would in turn hurt Horde RP even more.

That's not a fair reason to permanently bar them. I know that and so does the rest of the GM team. However, it is a real problem and one that is creating a significant amount of hesitation on this issue. Ideas on how to mitigate that possibility would be welcome, but I believe it ultimately boils down to trying to find some permanent solution that would draw more interest Horde-side.

Comments, questions, leave 'em here.]]>
Keep in mind that the current ideas are still a work in progress and are subject to change.

I'm going to make this rather brief in order to get to the meat of what this is about. Discussion regarding "subraces" has occurred and the okay was given from Kretol to be more lenient with regards to CMC requests for these. Now, a few things here:

Why must things like forest trolls and mag'har be CMC'd at all? Primarily for readability. The difference between a forest troll and a jungle troll, or a green orc and a mag'har, is pretty significant as far as physical differences and how they are treated culturally. For that reason, it's important that on a graphical RP medium like WoW, that a character's race be easily readable at a glance.

How will this new lenience work, then? As Loxy and Reigen are being given the ability to CMC, the commands for changing models is actually not that bad. The idea is to still limit these new types of character, however, to prevent over-saturation. Subrace characters would then be allowed on main accounts, but players would be limited to one per player (not counting against their "real" CMC limit.) Approval for these would go much faster, however.

What is a "subrace"? Essentially, variants on the current races that would realistically fit within the given factions. Current ideas: mag'har, taunka, forest trolls, and broken being the main culprits, though this system could conceivably also be used for people that want the specific skins for things like dark irons, Wildhammer dwarves, Blackrocks, and Dragonmaw orcs. Note, however, that this list is subject to additions or subtractions, we're still juggling possibilities.

What about high elves? This is where things get sticky, and the ultimate reason I'm putting this in my blog. The subject of high elves came up during the GM discussions with this, and it would be inevitable that it would come up from the playerbase.

Here's the thing: Blizzard originally added blood elves to the Horde for a very specific purpose: to boost the popularity of the Horde and add a more conventionally attractive race to its numbers to draw in more players that might be turned off by the Horde's looks otherwise. On CotH, the blood elves serve the same purpose. With Horde RP rather shaky even at the best of times, and much (though admittedly not all) of that RP ending up being dependent on blood elven presence, the addition of high elves serves as a very possible threat to Horde activity. People who may have once rolled blood elves would feel compelled to go for high elves in order to get the more frequent Alliance RP, and this would in turn hurt Horde RP even more.

That's not a fair reason to permanently bar them. I know that and so does the rest of the GM team. However, it is a real problem and one that is creating a significant amount of hesitation on this issue. Ideas on how to mitigate that possibility would be welcome, but I believe it ultimately boils down to trying to find some permanent solution that would draw more interest Horde-side.

Comments, questions, leave 'em here.]]> <![CDATA[Grakor Grumbles: Spirit Companions]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-36046.html Wed, 14 Aug 2013 23:27:52 -0700 Grakor456]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-36046.html
Here's the thing: the WoW d20 was created along with a multitude of other d20 games as a result of the particular licence used for Dungeons and Dragons 3rd edition. If your experiences with pen and paper systems are limited to the WoW d20, you might be rightfully confused as to what that actually means. In essence, many designers and publishers were given the rights to essentially create systems that were very similar to D&D 3rd, using roughly the same game mechanics. This is also apparent with the WoW d20, and leads to one of the main weaknesses of the d20 as a lore source: much of the information, especially pertaining to things like abilities, racial dimensions, and mechanics, are pulled directly from, or heavily inspired by, Dungeons and Dragons. This especially applies to prestige classes: Shadow Ascendant, as a random example, has a lot of things in common with the D&D Shadow Dancer.

Now, there -is- some good lore stuff in there, don't get me wrong. It's okay to draw certain amounts of inspiration, but you have to keep in mind a few things when you do so. One, mechanics are very different between a pen and paper game and the kind of more freeform roleplay that we do here. There's a good reason that we won't let you get your Wish or Miracle spell. Two, in-game stuff will always trump d20 stuff because d20 stuff isn't canon. And third, you have to be cautious when it comes to d20 lore because not everyone has access to read it all or wants to mess with it. There's more, and I could ramble on it longer, but for now my point is this: I don't hate d20 lore. There's good stuff in it. For example, I -love- the interpretations they gave for Spiritwalkers, and that's lore that I still use.

So, let's talk about ghostly characters!

Spirit companions for Spiritwalkers/Spirit Champions existed in the old prestige system, but the idea never gained much traction. Nonetheless, I'd like to posit their existence again because it's just too cool of lore to ignore, and does have at least some basis in the in-game characters that we see. The idea, essentially, would be the particularly ancestor-based shamanistic cultures being able to call upon the spirits of their ancestors/heroes/dead to fight with them once more. Now, I'll leave the specifics for personal interpretation, but I see this as being another possibility for a new type of "private discussion" kind of character concept, especially since we already do have transparency and ghostly aura trinkets that would work beautifully for this.

Especially because this would be another character concept that might spur on Horde RP, since this would be of particular interest for the Orc/Tauren/Troll characters.

Might ramble on this more, but it's a thought I had.]]>
Here's the thing: the WoW d20 was created along with a multitude of other d20 games as a result of the particular licence used for Dungeons and Dragons 3rd edition. If your experiences with pen and paper systems are limited to the WoW d20, you might be rightfully confused as to what that actually means. In essence, many designers and publishers were given the rights to essentially create systems that were very similar to D&D 3rd, using roughly the same game mechanics. This is also apparent with the WoW d20, and leads to one of the main weaknesses of the d20 as a lore source: much of the information, especially pertaining to things like abilities, racial dimensions, and mechanics, are pulled directly from, or heavily inspired by, Dungeons and Dragons. This especially applies to prestige classes: Shadow Ascendant, as a random example, has a lot of things in common with the D&D Shadow Dancer.

Now, there -is- some good lore stuff in there, don't get me wrong. It's okay to draw certain amounts of inspiration, but you have to keep in mind a few things when you do so. One, mechanics are very different between a pen and paper game and the kind of more freeform roleplay that we do here. There's a good reason that we won't let you get your Wish or Miracle spell. Two, in-game stuff will always trump d20 stuff because d20 stuff isn't canon. And third, you have to be cautious when it comes to d20 lore because not everyone has access to read it all or wants to mess with it. There's more, and I could ramble on it longer, but for now my point is this: I don't hate d20 lore. There's good stuff in it. For example, I -love- the interpretations they gave for Spiritwalkers, and that's lore that I still use.

So, let's talk about ghostly characters!

Spirit companions for Spiritwalkers/Spirit Champions existed in the old prestige system, but the idea never gained much traction. Nonetheless, I'd like to posit their existence again because it's just too cool of lore to ignore, and does have at least some basis in the in-game characters that we see. The idea, essentially, would be the particularly ancestor-based shamanistic cultures being able to call upon the spirits of their ancestors/heroes/dead to fight with them once more. Now, I'll leave the specifics for personal interpretation, but I see this as being another possibility for a new type of "private discussion" kind of character concept, especially since we already do have transparency and ghostly aura trinkets that would work beautifully for this.

Especially because this would be another character concept that might spur on Horde RP, since this would be of particular interest for the Orc/Tauren/Troll characters.

Might ramble on this more, but it's a thought I had.]]> <![CDATA[Grakor Grumbles: Heights and Weights]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-35767.html Wed, 24 Jul 2013 14:31:55 -0700 Grakor456]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-35767.html
The charts that we use now were taken from WoW Wiki, though with some alterations (to note, the WoW Wiki numbers have changed since, and some of them are even more silly. 652 pounds for a maxed out orc? Daaaaaaaang.) I'm still not certain where all of the current numbers came from, but I'm also fairly certain some of them are wrong or just fairly exaggerated. Some of them probably came from the d20, but the d20 numbers are very, very wrong (the d20 claims, for example, that goblins are shorter than gnomes and that trolls are shorter than orcs, but false by what we see in-game.)

There's also the problem that Blizzard has, otherwise, not given solid numbers on racial heights and weights. Worse, the numbers that they do give are rather...suspect, probably because they are given by writers and not by people with any idea of how body builds and heights correspond to actual weights. I don't care if your quests say that orcs are 250 pounds, your artists are showing us this and that is at least a little bit more than 250 pounds if we're assuming he's 6'6". (I could probably buy 300 for that, but nonetheless.)

So the question comes as to if our current height/weight standards should change and how they should do so. I know a few people are a bit dubious about orcs being in the 400 pound range, for example, though I maintain that is certainly feasible (though admittedly, perhaps not universally true.)

I'm half tempted to stop trying to keep track of character height/weights beyond scale demands, but that's just sweeping the issue under the rug rather than trying to address it. Thoughts?]]>
The charts that we use now were taken from WoW Wiki, though with some alterations (to note, the WoW Wiki numbers have changed since, and some of them are even more silly. 652 pounds for a maxed out orc? Daaaaaaaang.) I'm still not certain where all of the current numbers came from, but I'm also fairly certain some of them are wrong or just fairly exaggerated. Some of them probably came from the d20, but the d20 numbers are very, very wrong (the d20 claims, for example, that goblins are shorter than gnomes and that trolls are shorter than orcs, but false by what we see in-game.)

There's also the problem that Blizzard has, otherwise, not given solid numbers on racial heights and weights. Worse, the numbers that they do give are rather...suspect, probably because they are given by writers and not by people with any idea of how body builds and heights correspond to actual weights. I don't care if your quests say that orcs are 250 pounds, your artists are showing us this and that is at least a little bit more than 250 pounds if we're assuming he's 6'6". (I could probably buy 300 for that, but nonetheless.)

So the question comes as to if our current height/weight standards should change and how they should do so. I know a few people are a bit dubious about orcs being in the 400 pound range, for example, though I maintain that is certainly feasible (though admittedly, perhaps not universally true.)

I'm half tempted to stop trying to keep track of character height/weights beyond scale demands, but that's just sweeping the issue under the rug rather than trying to address it. Thoughts?]]> <![CDATA[Grakor Grumbles: Custom Server Lore]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-35725.html Mon, 22 Jul 2013 00:38:58 -0700 Grakor456]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-35725.html
The mission statement for CotH is to, for better or for worse, adhere to relatively Blizz-like lore for the purposes of RP. This allows for a number of advantages, particularly in easing new players into RP here on CotH if they are familiar with canon WoW lore. There are other servers that make use of heavy custom lore, and we have neither the desire nor the resources to attempt to compete with these servers on that level.

Nonetheless, I've come to an impasse when it comes to Blizzard lore. Before I've never had any particular desire to change large segments of WoW lore. And then Cataclysm and Mists happened. For those of you who have not paid attention to the meta-plot of WoW for these two expansions or haven't heard me rant on it: I will be charitable and say that the meta-plot is...not very good.

Now, there's a lot of very...not good lore that we just can't do anything about without rewriting the expansions, particularly regarding the lore figure arcs. No matter what, Garrosh is going to go through his stage of slowly improving to be a leader, only to undergo an unprovoked heel turn for Mists. Jaina will shack up with a dragon, become inexplicably racist, and declare Dalaran Alliance. Thrall marries a woman with no personality solely so the plot gods can give him a kid. Varian becomes the flawless king who teaches the considerably older Tyrande the value of patience.

We can't do anything about that without rewriting things, which can make things confusing for new players coming in. What we potentially could do, though, is control the tones of our own events and make additions that make the lore more nuanced than it currently is. We already make -additions- to lore, in a sense, through new areas added to the game. The way that we control events and spin our stories can make improvements without necessarily altering what is already there. Examples:

- Running events to make orcs and undead morally lighter than the current expansions paint them as (seriously, Cata and Mists turned them into puppy-strangling maniacs.)

- On the subject of the Forsaken, provide clearer justification for the invasion of Gilneas. It's an event that has no logical justification, and it really needs some since it's the entire reason Gilneas joins the Alliance.

- Running events to make the Alliance more morally grey and flawed than the pure noblebright that they ended up being painted as.

- Taking races that have been ignored in canon lore (belves and draenei especially) and making them a bit more relevant.

- Taking lore figures that have been shelved by Blizzard and making them a bit more active (for example: Nazgrel, Trollbane, Rexxar, etc.)

I'm sure other ideas can be given as well.

The question I have then is how much would this fit within people's desires for more custom lore, and would they like to see things like this?]]>
The mission statement for CotH is to, for better or for worse, adhere to relatively Blizz-like lore for the purposes of RP. This allows for a number of advantages, particularly in easing new players into RP here on CotH if they are familiar with canon WoW lore. There are other servers that make use of heavy custom lore, and we have neither the desire nor the resources to attempt to compete with these servers on that level.

Nonetheless, I've come to an impasse when it comes to Blizzard lore. Before I've never had any particular desire to change large segments of WoW lore. And then Cataclysm and Mists happened. For those of you who have not paid attention to the meta-plot of WoW for these two expansions or haven't heard me rant on it: I will be charitable and say that the meta-plot is...not very good.

Now, there's a lot of very...not good lore that we just can't do anything about without rewriting the expansions, particularly regarding the lore figure arcs. No matter what, Garrosh is going to go through his stage of slowly improving to be a leader, only to undergo an unprovoked heel turn for Mists. Jaina will shack up with a dragon, become inexplicably racist, and declare Dalaran Alliance. Thrall marries a woman with no personality solely so the plot gods can give him a kid. Varian becomes the flawless king who teaches the considerably older Tyrande the value of patience.

We can't do anything about that without rewriting things, which can make things confusing for new players coming in. What we potentially could do, though, is control the tones of our own events and make additions that make the lore more nuanced than it currently is. We already make -additions- to lore, in a sense, through new areas added to the game. The way that we control events and spin our stories can make improvements without necessarily altering what is already there. Examples:

- Running events to make orcs and undead morally lighter than the current expansions paint them as (seriously, Cata and Mists turned them into puppy-strangling maniacs.)

- On the subject of the Forsaken, provide clearer justification for the invasion of Gilneas. It's an event that has no logical justification, and it really needs some since it's the entire reason Gilneas joins the Alliance.

- Running events to make the Alliance more morally grey and flawed than the pure noblebright that they ended up being painted as.

- Taking races that have been ignored in canon lore (belves and draenei especially) and making them a bit more relevant.

- Taking lore figures that have been shelved by Blizzard and making them a bit more active (for example: Nazgrel, Trollbane, Rexxar, etc.)

I'm sure other ideas can be given as well.

The question I have then is how much would this fit within people's desires for more custom lore, and would they like to see things like this?]]> <![CDATA[Grakor Grumbles: Sexual RP Policy]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-35619.html Sun, 14 Jul 2013 23:52:01 -0700 Grakor456]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-35619.html
Currently, the rules state that any RP is fine so long as everyone is okay with it. Now, we do have a caveat with that in that we request ERP ("erotic" roleplay) and RP with extreme violent imagery to be put into party chat, in order to avoid offending people or swamping them with imagery that they don't want to see.

Here is where things get tricky...where is that line drawn?

We have stated that you can't roll a prostitute/"escort" character because they can serve as ERP magnets. At the same time, we've just kind of allowed people to do pretty risque things in public games of Truth or Dare, or (and I'm sorry Rosencrat for using this as an example, no offense is intended but it's relevant and interesting for discussion) creating lust-inducing potions/drinks. Is this hypocritical? At what point does the RP need to be shuffled into party chat?

Now, for me personally, I don't mind the above so long as it doesn't get into actual sex acts. Similarly, nudity in RP doesn't bother me and I wouldn't urge for party chat until we start delving into loving descriptions of our characters' genitals. That said, I'm not the best barometer for this kind of thing because I am quite difficult to "squick" out and I have a very high tolerance for sexual imagery. Even the things I would urge people to put into party wouldn't phase me, I'd just consider it common courtesy. On the other hand, it has been rightfully pointed out that this isn't for my benefit, it's for the benefit of minors or people that feel uncomfortable around sexual shenanigans.

So, my question to you all: where do you think the lines should be drawn? Do you think we should be more strict on this? Do you think that prostitute/etc. characters should be allowed? Where do you stand on this issue?]]>
Currently, the rules state that any RP is fine so long as everyone is okay with it. Now, we do have a caveat with that in that we request ERP ("erotic" roleplay) and RP with extreme violent imagery to be put into party chat, in order to avoid offending people or swamping them with imagery that they don't want to see.

Here is where things get tricky...where is that line drawn?

We have stated that you can't roll a prostitute/"escort" character because they can serve as ERP magnets. At the same time, we've just kind of allowed people to do pretty risque things in public games of Truth or Dare, or (and I'm sorry Rosencrat for using this as an example, no offense is intended but it's relevant and interesting for discussion) creating lust-inducing potions/drinks. Is this hypocritical? At what point does the RP need to be shuffled into party chat?

Now, for me personally, I don't mind the above so long as it doesn't get into actual sex acts. Similarly, nudity in RP doesn't bother me and I wouldn't urge for party chat until we start delving into loving descriptions of our characters' genitals. That said, I'm not the best barometer for this kind of thing because I am quite difficult to "squick" out and I have a very high tolerance for sexual imagery. Even the things I would urge people to put into party wouldn't phase me, I'd just consider it common courtesy. On the other hand, it has been rightfully pointed out that this isn't for my benefit, it's for the benefit of minors or people that feel uncomfortable around sexual shenanigans.

So, my question to you all: where do you think the lines should be drawn? Do you think we should be more strict on this? Do you think that prostitute/etc. characters should be allowed? Where do you stand on this issue?]]> <![CDATA[Clarifications on the Guard/NPC Policy]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-35512.html Sun, 07 Jul 2013 11:40:33 -0700 Grakor456]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-35512.html
So, situation comes up: Character A starts throwing punches at Character B in the middle of Stormwind. What do?

Communicate. First, the two players involved in this should discuss the possibility of guards interfering in the RP. Note that depending on location and context, guards may not interfere at all. Fist-fights in taverns happen all the time, after all. Of course, having weapons out changes the context entirely, as does having the brawl turn into a large, crowded affair. So, first step is to determine if agreement can or can't be reached on how these things would resolve themselves. The next step depends on how this works:

If agreement can't be reached - Contact a GM to help mediate the issue. If a GM is not available, then try to find some peaceful way to resolve the issue, be it a sudden separation or a compromise. If a GM mediates, listen and work with the GM's decision. This may, or may not, actually involve the puppeting of guards.

If agreement is reached that the guards would not interfere - You're gold. Carry on until circumstances change that would cause them to interfere.

If agreement is reached that the guards would interfere - Try to decide on how that reaction would occur. There is a belief that PCs shouldn't "puppet" guards, but this is a little incorrect. If PCs can agree that "yes, the guards would break up this fight" then you can presume their actions and RP accordingly. "Character A gets ready to throw another punch, but is suddenly dragged back as a Stormwind guard comes in to break up the fight" is a perfectly fine emote to make.

Again, most problems *should* be resolvable by the players involved in the scuffle. GMs come in when disagreements prevent that from happening.]]>
So, situation comes up: Character A starts throwing punches at Character B in the middle of Stormwind. What do?

Communicate. First, the two players involved in this should discuss the possibility of guards interfering in the RP. Note that depending on location and context, guards may not interfere at all. Fist-fights in taverns happen all the time, after all. Of course, having weapons out changes the context entirely, as does having the brawl turn into a large, crowded affair. So, first step is to determine if agreement can or can't be reached on how these things would resolve themselves. The next step depends on how this works:

If agreement can't be reached - Contact a GM to help mediate the issue. If a GM is not available, then try to find some peaceful way to resolve the issue, be it a sudden separation or a compromise. If a GM mediates, listen and work with the GM's decision. This may, or may not, actually involve the puppeting of guards.

If agreement is reached that the guards would not interfere - You're gold. Carry on until circumstances change that would cause them to interfere.

If agreement is reached that the guards would interfere - Try to decide on how that reaction would occur. There is a belief that PCs shouldn't "puppet" guards, but this is a little incorrect. If PCs can agree that "yes, the guards would break up this fight" then you can presume their actions and RP accordingly. "Character A gets ready to throw another punch, but is suddenly dragged back as a Stormwind guard comes in to break up the fight" is a perfectly fine emote to make.

Again, most problems *should* be resolvable by the players involved in the scuffle. GMs come in when disagreements prevent that from happening.]]> <![CDATA[That Thin Line...]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-35487.html Fri, 05 Jul 2013 19:47:02 -0700 Grakor456]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-35487.html
I thought I'd give a quick note on the Kidnapped thread that I was going to have significantly reduced participation for the rest of the event. But when I thought about it, I decided to do this instead. Sort of...explaining myself in a way, since that's what these blogs are theoretically for, and to kind of reflect on a few issues. Kidnapped is related, but not the main issue here, I think.

Let me say, however, that my preferences are just that...my preferences. My opinions. Loxmardin and Xigo have run an event that a lot of people legitimately enjoy. That I did not is not really their fault, so much as a difference in the kinds of RP that we enjoy (and it's not that we don't have overlapping interests...it's just that this wasn't one of them.)

So when initially asked, I simply said that I couldn't stomach the grimdark of the event. Towards the end I'd started to feel legitimately ill and that was a sign for me to take a step back from the event and let it play out its course. I'll play for the finale and if I get poked for specific character-to-character RP, but I didn't want anything more to do with the event itself.

Really, I was only hanging around the event for two things, I found: Surthak flirting with Gron, and Surthak having those emotional talks with Geoni and Thalvin. I don't regret those RPs, they're some of the most fun I've had. But I ran into this snag where I was feeling -depressed- just logging in. The oppressive atmosphere, etc. I've always favored the more "light and fluffy" kinds of RP: romance, comedic scenes, and action-adventure stuff especially. What it came down to, I found, is that like it or not I was channeling a bit of my own character's emotions. Surthak was depressed, and therefore so was I. Surthak had moments of happiness when he interacted with those he was close to, and so did I. It occurred to me that in many ways, this was also why I have always enjoyed RPing Thragash: he's such an up-beat, jovial guy that I can't help but smile along with him as he goes around telling his jokes and generally being the friendliest guy you'd ever meet. A lot of my love came from living vicariously through my characters, feeling their emotional highs as they do.

And this by itself wouldn't have bothered me, until discussions among some friends turned to the potential death of Gron during the finale of the event...and, for a brief moment, I was rather upset at the notion. Gron isn't even my character! But Surthak had grown increasingly emotionally-attached to him, and in a certain why I'd feel sad for his loss. Of course I'd never dream of telling someone "No, you can't delete your own character," because that's just silliness. But it did get me thinking.

How much of a hypocrite am I that I can tell someone, as an admin and a GM, to not take IC things OOC, when apparently I have problems doing the same?

How does one handle that?

Am I the only one?

I'm not sure. Maybe my day off will help me get some perspective and relax a bit. And hopefully writing this here would, too. If anyone's got any comments or advice, feel free to leave them here.]]>
I thought I'd give a quick note on the Kidnapped thread that I was going to have significantly reduced participation for the rest of the event. But when I thought about it, I decided to do this instead. Sort of...explaining myself in a way, since that's what these blogs are theoretically for, and to kind of reflect on a few issues. Kidnapped is related, but not the main issue here, I think.

Let me say, however, that my preferences are just that...my preferences. My opinions. Loxmardin and Xigo have run an event that a lot of people legitimately enjoy. That I did not is not really their fault, so much as a difference in the kinds of RP that we enjoy (and it's not that we don't have overlapping interests...it's just that this wasn't one of them.)

So when initially asked, I simply said that I couldn't stomach the grimdark of the event. Towards the end I'd started to feel legitimately ill and that was a sign for me to take a step back from the event and let it play out its course. I'll play for the finale and if I get poked for specific character-to-character RP, but I didn't want anything more to do with the event itself.

Really, I was only hanging around the event for two things, I found: Surthak flirting with Gron, and Surthak having those emotional talks with Geoni and Thalvin. I don't regret those RPs, they're some of the most fun I've had. But I ran into this snag where I was feeling -depressed- just logging in. The oppressive atmosphere, etc. I've always favored the more "light and fluffy" kinds of RP: romance, comedic scenes, and action-adventure stuff especially. What it came down to, I found, is that like it or not I was channeling a bit of my own character's emotions. Surthak was depressed, and therefore so was I. Surthak had moments of happiness when he interacted with those he was close to, and so did I. It occurred to me that in many ways, this was also why I have always enjoyed RPing Thragash: he's such an up-beat, jovial guy that I can't help but smile along with him as he goes around telling his jokes and generally being the friendliest guy you'd ever meet. A lot of my love came from living vicariously through my characters, feeling their emotional highs as they do.

And this by itself wouldn't have bothered me, until discussions among some friends turned to the potential death of Gron during the finale of the event...and, for a brief moment, I was rather upset at the notion. Gron isn't even my character! But Surthak had grown increasingly emotionally-attached to him, and in a certain why I'd feel sad for his loss. Of course I'd never dream of telling someone "No, you can't delete your own character," because that's just silliness. But it did get me thinking.

How much of a hypocrite am I that I can tell someone, as an admin and a GM, to not take IC things OOC, when apparently I have problems doing the same?

How does one handle that?

Am I the only one?

I'm not sure. Maybe my day off will help me get some perspective and relax a bit. And hopefully writing this here would, too. If anyone's got any comments or advice, feel free to leave them here.]]> <![CDATA[Concerning the Chat Filter]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-35386.html Sat, 29 Jun 2013 12:22:09 -0700 Grakor456]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-35386.html
There has been a sudden surge of people who have been choosing to subvert/bypass the mature language filter by replacing letters with symbols or other such actions so that the filter doesn't catch the mature language. Note that this is not necessary. By opening the Interface options in the game menu and clicking on the "Social" tab, you can uncheck the option to have the mature language filter enabled. It should look like this:

Spoiler:
[Image: ChatFilter_zps8b91558f.jpg]

This should be your preferred option if you want to use mature language and not have it appear censored for yourself.

Take note that subverting or bypassing the mature language filter is against the rules. Since you have the ability to turn it off, you shouldn't have to do this. Since you can turn it off, bypassing the filter only serves to force mature language on those that specifically want it to remain censored. This is not a good thing for anyone involved. Know that repeated incidents of bypassing the censor will result in warnings, and even suspensions if the behavior persists.

If you have any questions or comments, feel free to post below.]]>
There has been a sudden surge of people who have been choosing to subvert/bypass the mature language filter by replacing letters with symbols or other such actions so that the filter doesn't catch the mature language. Note that this is not necessary. By opening the Interface options in the game menu and clicking on the "Social" tab, you can uncheck the option to have the mature language filter enabled. It should look like this:

Spoiler:
[Image: ChatFilter_zps8b91558f.jpg]

This should be your preferred option if you want to use mature language and not have it appear censored for yourself.

Take note that subverting or bypassing the mature language filter is against the rules. Since you have the ability to turn it off, you shouldn't have to do this. Since you can turn it off, bypassing the filter only serves to force mature language on those that specifically want it to remain censored. This is not a good thing for anyone involved. Know that repeated incidents of bypassing the censor will result in warnings, and even suspensions if the behavior persists.

If you have any questions or comments, feel free to post below.]]> <![CDATA[Muscle-Building and Your Characters]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-34649.html Mon, 29 Apr 2013 21:57:06 -0700 Grakor456]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-34649.html
First of all, a picture can say a thousand words, so take a look at this:

Spoiler:
[Image: 132371526674_zpsc9873eb6.jpg]

Edit: To clarify, I didn't draw this. Cappn has a link to the full image lower down!

One of the biggest problems with regards to people making "strong" characters in fantasy is having no idea how actual muscle is built, or what an actual "strong man" looks like. When most people think strength, they think bodybuilders. Yet, that is not the true "strongest" build. Bodybuilders are at their weakest on the stage.

If you've ever watched a World's Strongest Man competition, you'll know that the strongest men tend to have little, or no, muscle definition at all. It's all raw bulk, without much care for fat over top of it. Take a look at some of the competitors and you'll see what I mean. That "V-shape" that people talk about is not a sign of immense strength!

How does this relate to weight? Bodybuilders that compete are often in the mid 200's to low 300's range in terms of weight. If you look at the weights of competitors in World's Strongest Man? You're talking 300's to mid 400's! The fat that they have increases the weight, certanly, but you also have to consider that they have stronger muscles in places most competing bodybuilders don't, like their core/midsection. Strongmen often have thick waists that, to someone not familiar, would make them look "fat." Until they show you just how much they can lift.

So, think carefully before you assert what kind of build your character has. If you're saying that your character is "three hundred pounds of muscle," then you need to think about "what kind of muscle?" and if there's anything else there pushing that number up. Is it muscle for show, or muscle for work? Because if it's for work, at that weight he's probably not holding that "bodybuilder" style look to him.]]>
First of all, a picture can say a thousand words, so take a look at this:

Spoiler:
[Image: 132371526674_zpsc9873eb6.jpg]

Edit: To clarify, I didn't draw this. Cappn has a link to the full image lower down!

One of the biggest problems with regards to people making "strong" characters in fantasy is having no idea how actual muscle is built, or what an actual "strong man" looks like. When most people think strength, they think bodybuilders. Yet, that is not the true "strongest" build. Bodybuilders are at their weakest on the stage.

If you've ever watched a World's Strongest Man competition, you'll know that the strongest men tend to have little, or no, muscle definition at all. It's all raw bulk, without much care for fat over top of it. Take a look at some of the competitors and you'll see what I mean. That "V-shape" that people talk about is not a sign of immense strength!

How does this relate to weight? Bodybuilders that compete are often in the mid 200's to low 300's range in terms of weight. If you look at the weights of competitors in World's Strongest Man? You're talking 300's to mid 400's! The fat that they have increases the weight, certanly, but you also have to consider that they have stronger muscles in places most competing bodybuilders don't, like their core/midsection. Strongmen often have thick waists that, to someone not familiar, would make them look "fat." Until they show you just how much they can lift.

So, think carefully before you assert what kind of build your character has. If you're saying that your character is "three hundred pounds of muscle," then you need to think about "what kind of muscle?" and if there's anything else there pushing that number up. Is it muscle for show, or muscle for work? Because if it's for work, at that weight he's probably not holding that "bodybuilder" style look to him.]]> <![CDATA[World of Xeen Discussion]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-34328.html Sat, 13 Apr 2013 01:00:13 -0700 Grakor456]]> https://www.conquestofthehorde.com/thread-34328.html