07-06-2008, 11:32 PM
I would like address a couple lore errors I have seen too many times to count in character's histories, regarding the Forsaken, how they came to be, what kinds of characters could possibly be among them, and what means by which a character could be among them. I covered several basic mistakes I consistently see, both in retail (having lead an all-Forsaken heavy RP guild) and in private servers/forums thereafter. Feel free to correct me if you find you disagree with anything, but please read through the entire post (I know, it's long) before offering criticism, as what you wish to say may have been already addressed further down the line.
The basic points are these . . .
Sylvanas DID NOT free the undead from the Lich King. She rose to lead them, and in some respects delivered them in founding the order, freeing them from the Dreadlords, and keeping them safe from Scourge attack. She did not, however, aid in their mentally *freeing themselves* from Ner'zhul's domination, which is what they (each of them individually) did.
No Forsaken could have been among the Scarlet Crusade in life (unless there are extreme circumstances regarding his/her history), nor could they have fought against them when they were still Scourge (before breaking away). The Scarlet Crusade was not formed under it's current name and banner until long after the Forsaken broke free from Lich King.
A detailed account, with proper references and evidence is as follows:
Illidan assaulted Icecrown using a spell generated from the Eye of Sargeras, causing the Lich King's power to weaken considerably. The Lich King may have been destroyed completely, but the spell was interrupted but Tyrande and Malfurion. When he was weakened, a large portion of the Scourge were able to break free from the Lich King's mental domination, and regain their free will. Keep in mind that while Sylvanas Windrunner was among the undead who broke free, she was not responsible for their freedom. In essence they freed themselves when the hold on their minds loosened, she (in time) was simply the one who rose to lead them. (though all Forsaken may not know/believe this)
To be precise, the majority of the free-willed undead (many of which are now among the Forsaken) were under the control of the three Dreadlords (Varimathras, Detheroc, and Balnazzar) when they broke free from Ner'zhul's control, evidenced by the fact that the Dreadlords ordered them to attack Arthas as he flead the Capital City in Wacraft 3: The Frozen Throne. As such, the battles between Sylvanas and the Dreadlords were essentially free-willed undead against free-willed undead, they simply had different commanders.
In the end, Sylvanas was the victor, and those free-willed undead who had survived the conflict (Sylvanas vs. Dreadlords) rallied together under Sylvanas to from the Forsaken, regardless of whether they had initially been under the command of one of the Dreadlords, or Sylvanas the entire time. Varimathras joined her, and so many of his suviving undead joined with hers early on. Most of the other two dreadlords' undead were killed when Sylvanas defeated them, but since the Forsaken stood as the only undead faction after the conflict was over, the only logical explanation was that the remaining undead of Detheroc and Balnazzar's armies joined her. In the end, she proclaimed a new order, under which all free-willed undead could unite and claim vengeance upon the Scourge.
Most importantly however, it was not long after the Forsaken formed that Arthas reached Icecrown and defeated Illidan (who was now assaulting the Frozen Throne physically), rescuing the (still weakened) Lich King from destruction. At this point, Arthas broke the frozen casket in which Ner'zhul was encased, freeing his spirit, only to unite with him moments later, becoming one solitary being. (Blizzard has yet to elaborate whether Ner'zhul simply took control of Arthas' body, or if the two are acting in unison.) Nonetheless, when they united, the Lich King's power was completely restored, and has since grown even futher.
As his power was restored, his mental hold on the Scourge returned to full strength, making it impossible for any more undead to break away from his telepathic domination. Those who were among the Forsaken were more or less set in permanence, no others from the Scourge could break free and join their ranks.
It wasn't until several years thereafter that the Scarlet Crusade formed and became what it is now. Therefore no Scourge who fought the Scarlet Crusade could have broken free and become Forsaken. No humans from the Scarlet Crusade who were killed and raised into the Scourge could break away and become Forsaken. The Lich King's power had long since been restored and his mental hold on the Scourge was unbreakable. Those undead under the Lich King's command are there to stay.
While it has been revealed that the Forsaken are (to a small extent) capable of necromancy, and can raise newly killed enemies into their ranks, it is not common. More-so, such undead would not be free-willed. They would have to be under the mental control of Lady Sylvanas herself(who has been shown capable of mental domination of both humans and undead, in the warcraft 3 missions), be possessed by one of her Banshees, or be (partially) mindless undead who do the bidding of the (Forsaken-loyal) necromancer (of which there are very few) who raised them into undeath.
If a human is killed by and raised into undeath by the Forsaken, but allowed to retain his free will, what incentive would he have to all of a sudden join his (former) enemy simply because they defeated and raised him? If anything, he would despise them more for bestowing the curse of undeath upon him. He would likely just continue fighting them, regardless of undeath. He has no reason to be loyal to them unless there is more to the story behind his death/defeat.
Since all undead created through Forsaken necromancy must be mental control of another being (Sylvanas/Banshee/Forsaken Necromancer), these types of undead (while they do exist) are pretty much phased out of roleplay. Obviously it's not acceptable to roleplay as being under mental control of a faction leader. The case of the banshee would be acceptable, but would essentially just be roleplaying as *the banshee*, with her personality and history and not that of the character who's body she possesses (said banshee would probably have her own history, having been someone completely different in life). Finally, the case of the necromancer would only work if someone is available to roleplay as the necromancer. Considering first that the undead would depend on the necromancer for roleplay (making it relatively unacceptable), and also that Necromancer is a prestige title (someone would have to have earned it through training to play that role), it's near impossible for this scenario to play out in roleplay on this server.
EDIT #2 (added second, but read it first): Allegedly, Forsaken Necromancers can "free enslaved, mindless undead " but it is notable that they are extremely rare among the Forsaken; almost all Necromancers received instruction through Kel'thuzad or his subordinates, and those who are among the Forsaken were noted to have been taken by force. Also we must consider that lore sources state specifically that *only* mindless undead may be set free by necromancers. While it says little beyond this, one thing to remember is that there is a difference between setting an undead free from the Scourge to give it back it's own free will and *taking* it from the scourge to make it a mindslave of the necromancer himself. The term *mindless* seems to give the impression that, the latter is the case when dealing with Forsaken necromancers. Thus the point remains, undead converted into the Forsaken after Arthas' uniting with Ner'zhul can not likely be roleplayed.
While, as noted, there are some exceptions, these are the general limits to what kinds of characters can exist as Fosaken. One other thing worth mentioning is that not *all* free-willed undead are loyal to the Forsaken, and they do exist outside of Sylvanas' rule.
EDIT: One additional possibility I feel should be covered, is that in which an undead of the Scourge is *killed* (his undeath broken) and then raised into the ranks of the Forsaken. This occurrence is, as far as lore is concerned, impossible. There is absolutely no record of any being, under any circumstances, being raised into undeath twice. Resurrections are a completely different type of spell and can not be attributed to this. Speculation (and perhaps some common sense) seem to indicate that once a creature's undeath has ended, it can't be recreated. The corpse could *perhaps* be re-animated or it's body parts used in creating something else (abomniation?), but it wouldn't be the same sort of undeath that existed before.
If this were the case, every Scourge that died could be reborn as easily as they were brought into undead in the first place (plague included), and the only means by which to defeat the Scourge would be to physically remove killed Scourge from the battlefield and somehow destroy the remains, to prevent them from being brought back. Realistically, if this were possible, the Scourge would likely have already conquered all life on Azeroth. An army that could on a whim raise every soldier immediately after it dies would be nearly unbeatable.
The basic points are these . . .
Sylvanas DID NOT free the undead from the Lich King. She rose to lead them, and in some respects delivered them in founding the order, freeing them from the Dreadlords, and keeping them safe from Scourge attack. She did not, however, aid in their mentally *freeing themselves* from Ner'zhul's domination, which is what they (each of them individually) did.
No Forsaken could have been among the Scarlet Crusade in life (unless there are extreme circumstances regarding his/her history), nor could they have fought against them when they were still Scourge (before breaking away). The Scarlet Crusade was not formed under it's current name and banner until long after the Forsaken broke free from Lich King.
A detailed account, with proper references and evidence is as follows:
Illidan assaulted Icecrown using a spell generated from the Eye of Sargeras, causing the Lich King's power to weaken considerably. The Lich King may have been destroyed completely, but the spell was interrupted but Tyrande and Malfurion. When he was weakened, a large portion of the Scourge were able to break free from the Lich King's mental domination, and regain their free will. Keep in mind that while Sylvanas Windrunner was among the undead who broke free, she was not responsible for their freedom. In essence they freed themselves when the hold on their minds loosened, she (in time) was simply the one who rose to lead them. (though all Forsaken may not know/believe this)
To be precise, the majority of the free-willed undead (many of which are now among the Forsaken) were under the control of the three Dreadlords (Varimathras, Detheroc, and Balnazzar) when they broke free from Ner'zhul's control, evidenced by the fact that the Dreadlords ordered them to attack Arthas as he flead the Capital City in Wacraft 3: The Frozen Throne. As such, the battles between Sylvanas and the Dreadlords were essentially free-willed undead against free-willed undead, they simply had different commanders.
In the end, Sylvanas was the victor, and those free-willed undead who had survived the conflict (Sylvanas vs. Dreadlords) rallied together under Sylvanas to from the Forsaken, regardless of whether they had initially been under the command of one of the Dreadlords, or Sylvanas the entire time. Varimathras joined her, and so many of his suviving undead joined with hers early on. Most of the other two dreadlords' undead were killed when Sylvanas defeated them, but since the Forsaken stood as the only undead faction after the conflict was over, the only logical explanation was that the remaining undead of Detheroc and Balnazzar's armies joined her. In the end, she proclaimed a new order, under which all free-willed undead could unite and claim vengeance upon the Scourge.
Most importantly however, it was not long after the Forsaken formed that Arthas reached Icecrown and defeated Illidan (who was now assaulting the Frozen Throne physically), rescuing the (still weakened) Lich King from destruction. At this point, Arthas broke the frozen casket in which Ner'zhul was encased, freeing his spirit, only to unite with him moments later, becoming one solitary being. (Blizzard has yet to elaborate whether Ner'zhul simply took control of Arthas' body, or if the two are acting in unison.) Nonetheless, when they united, the Lich King's power was completely restored, and has since grown even futher.
As his power was restored, his mental hold on the Scourge returned to full strength, making it impossible for any more undead to break away from his telepathic domination. Those who were among the Forsaken were more or less set in permanence, no others from the Scourge could break free and join their ranks.
It wasn't until several years thereafter that the Scarlet Crusade formed and became what it is now. Therefore no Scourge who fought the Scarlet Crusade could have broken free and become Forsaken. No humans from the Scarlet Crusade who were killed and raised into the Scourge could break away and become Forsaken. The Lich King's power had long since been restored and his mental hold on the Scourge was unbreakable. Those undead under the Lich King's command are there to stay.
While it has been revealed that the Forsaken are (to a small extent) capable of necromancy, and can raise newly killed enemies into their ranks, it is not common. More-so, such undead would not be free-willed. They would have to be under the mental control of Lady Sylvanas herself(who has been shown capable of mental domination of both humans and undead, in the warcraft 3 missions), be possessed by one of her Banshees, or be (partially) mindless undead who do the bidding of the (Forsaken-loyal) necromancer (of which there are very few) who raised them into undeath.
If a human is killed by and raised into undeath by the Forsaken, but allowed to retain his free will, what incentive would he have to all of a sudden join his (former) enemy simply because they defeated and raised him? If anything, he would despise them more for bestowing the curse of undeath upon him. He would likely just continue fighting them, regardless of undeath. He has no reason to be loyal to them unless there is more to the story behind his death/defeat.
Since all undead created through Forsaken necromancy must be mental control of another being (Sylvanas/Banshee/Forsaken Necromancer), these types of undead (while they do exist) are pretty much phased out of roleplay. Obviously it's not acceptable to roleplay as being under mental control of a faction leader. The case of the banshee would be acceptable, but would essentially just be roleplaying as *the banshee*, with her personality and history and not that of the character who's body she possesses (said banshee would probably have her own history, having been someone completely different in life). Finally, the case of the necromancer would only work if someone is available to roleplay as the necromancer. Considering first that the undead would depend on the necromancer for roleplay (making it relatively unacceptable), and also that Necromancer is a prestige title (someone would have to have earned it through training to play that role), it's near impossible for this scenario to play out in roleplay on this server.
EDIT #2 (added second, but read it first): Allegedly, Forsaken Necromancers can "free enslaved, mindless undead " but it is notable that they are extremely rare among the Forsaken; almost all Necromancers received instruction through Kel'thuzad or his subordinates, and those who are among the Forsaken were noted to have been taken by force. Also we must consider that lore sources state specifically that *only* mindless undead may be set free by necromancers. While it says little beyond this, one thing to remember is that there is a difference between setting an undead free from the Scourge to give it back it's own free will and *taking* it from the scourge to make it a mindslave of the necromancer himself. The term *mindless* seems to give the impression that, the latter is the case when dealing with Forsaken necromancers. Thus the point remains, undead converted into the Forsaken after Arthas' uniting with Ner'zhul can not likely be roleplayed.
While, as noted, there are some exceptions, these are the general limits to what kinds of characters can exist as Fosaken. One other thing worth mentioning is that not *all* free-willed undead are loyal to the Forsaken, and they do exist outside of Sylvanas' rule.
EDIT: One additional possibility I feel should be covered, is that in which an undead of the Scourge is *killed* (his undeath broken) and then raised into the ranks of the Forsaken. This occurrence is, as far as lore is concerned, impossible. There is absolutely no record of any being, under any circumstances, being raised into undeath twice. Resurrections are a completely different type of spell and can not be attributed to this. Speculation (and perhaps some common sense) seem to indicate that once a creature's undeath has ended, it can't be recreated. The corpse could *perhaps* be re-animated or it's body parts used in creating something else (abomniation?), but it wouldn't be the same sort of undeath that existed before.
If this were the case, every Scourge that died could be reborn as easily as they were brought into undead in the first place (plague included), and the only means by which to defeat the Scourge would be to physically remove killed Scourge from the battlefield and somehow destroy the remains, to prevent them from being brought back. Realistically, if this were possible, the Scourge would likely have already conquered all life on Azeroth. An army that could on a whim raise every soldier immediately after it dies would be nearly unbeatable.