Roll or Trust?

[Bitlordman]

The reason I'm making this thread is simple. I want to see what you guys thing about this. Well here I go. A few days ago I was having a roll fight and I noticed that well... roll fights aren't that fair. They give you a chance to win but yet they can turn the game in seconds. They were times that rolls get boring and emotes start getting even more simple. I wanted to see if it's the same with trust and I found out that is definitely more different. It doesn't give you that kind of advantage with just simple emotes. I personally think that when your trust fight the emotes are more detailed and bigger, thats what makes the fight even more fun.

Trust fights are also a great way to show your imagination and thinking skills rather than rolling. If your in a serious fight with someone I would definitely prefer to ''trust'' fight since it will give you a bigger advantage in winning and of course a fair fight! Roll battles are always fun but they are surely not meant for serious and big battles since well they can kill your character if you lose. If you get killed while trust fighting you will know that you died fair rather than getting blowed by the computer roll system or such. Rolls are also a great way in doing events!

And from these two I prefer you ''Trust'' fight rather than ''Roll'' one. But those are just my thoughts. I would love to read your opinion and answer. Thank you again guys!

[Dug]

"Trust" fights can often turn into drama. At least from the world of RP I come from (gmod) and usually need administration to intervene. Conflicting egos can spark up bad experience. I'm pretty sure this is why people think it is best to leave it to rolls. Altho rolls can be extremely lolzy in certain situations.

[Bitlordman]

But rolls sometimes get boring and you start writting lazy emotes and such. I respect your opinion but if you Trust and prove yourself with emotes I'm pretty sure the opponent would understand and maybe take a hit or something hehe...

[Dug]

I'm not disagreeing with you nor agreeing. I'm just speaking from experience. I all honesty, I dislike rolls. But then again, if you're lucky you might pull off the impossible.

[Whorak]

Trust battles would be better against a player you like and trust, rather than the first person you see and RP with. The reason for this is what Dug mentioned about conflicting egos leading to a bad RP experience. Both parties think that their character is stronger and more powerful, especially when your character is freshly approved or a special profile character that you want to show off. Trust battles are not always long, detailed emotes though. How detailed an emote is depends entirely on the player.

Roll battles, on the other hand, are rather random. I've been in countless battles against someone else where I win in the end after losing almost all my HP, with the opponent just about unharmed, and vice-versa. I would prefer roll battles against someone that I don't trust as much, because you have a preset HP and the rolls decide who wins. It eliminates the clashing ego problem.

If you are afraid that someone will play unfair in a roll battle, for example a mage punching a fully plated warrior in the chest, then it is probably best to discuss the actions OOCly with the player and make a realistic emote about what will happen. Else, just don't RP with people who does things like that.

I do remember our trust-battle with Rezzak and Alariel, and it was one of the most fun battles I've had, because we played fair and made the best of what our characters are capable of. That is the building blocks of enjoyable RP: Fair play.

[NodCommando]

Trust battles would be better against a player you like and trust, rather than the first person you see and RP with. The reason for this is what Dug mentioned about conflicting egos leading to a bad RP experience. Both parties think that their character is stronger and more powerful, especially when your character is freshly approved or a special profile character that you want to show off. Trust battles are not always long, detailed emotes though. How detailed an emote is depends entirely on the player.

Roll battles, on the other hand, are rather random. I've been in countless battles against someone else where I win in the end after losing almost all my HP, with the opponent just about unharmed, and vice-versa. I would prefer roll battles against someone that I don't trust as much, because you have a preset HP and the rolls decide who wins. It eliminates the clashing ego problem.

If you are afraid that someone will play unfair in a roll battle, for example a mage punching a fully plated warrior in the chest, then it is probably best to discuss the actions OOCly with the player and make a realistic emote about what will happen. Else, just don't RP with people who does things like that.

I do remember our trust-battle with Rezzak and Alariel, and it was one of the most fun battles I've had, because we played fair and made the best of what our characters are capable of. That is the building blocks of enjoyable RP: Fair play.

This. This pretty much sums up the issue with trust-vs-roll fighting.

[Jonoth]

I'm a firm believer in not rushing into fights to start. By building the tension to it, you get a better sense of who you are fighting against, and if its someone you think will be fair about things. I hardly ever take random fight requests, unless I specifically enter an arena event. Otherwise, fights are usually built up, and I prefer trust fights because I always feel there is better storytelling involved, no matter what the outcome. Also, a wise man pointed out that if you are going to fight, be willing to have any outcome, whether win, lose, or draw. Losing a fight you "should" win can offer great character development!

[Rosencrat]

I'll keep this brief:

I think there is a time and place for Roll and a time and place for Trust.

Trust fighting is great for smaller fights. It allows for creativity, logic and the chance to exhibit your characters tactics beyond the rigid skeleton of roll fighting. It is why I ask to do trust fighting almost exclusively.

HOWEVER...You can't Trust fight in Events. Trust is a slow, ponderous affair that can drag a tournament or larger-scale combat event (More than five people) into a six hour grind fest. That becomes especially time-consuming when people are expecting turns or waiting for the chance to emote.

Trust for non-event RP. Roll for Event RP. That's what I follow.

[Grakor456]

I've been RPing for a good long while now, across many different games. In all of my experience with RPing, I have come to understand one fundamental truth about the nature of RP and RPers:

Nothing causes otherwise decent, pleasant individuals to immediately turn into raging, psychotic beasts out for blood as quickly as trust fights.

It's not cyber-stalking that's the greatest source of drama, not bannings, not conflicting personalities...the biggest source of drama are trust fights. And that is why I avoid them like they were the Black Plague. With one exception: I will engage in trust fights if a winner is already agreed upon beforehand. Otherwise, no. Not a chance. Will not happen. Period.

That's not to say that rolls are perfect. There are times where rolls are inappropriate, because they presume a 50/50 chance on both sides. When that doesn't exist, there becomes problems really finding a "fair" solution. Yeah, there are times where I won't engage in roll contests either, and it is this reason that also stands as why I avoid certain events.

No, your gnome will not out-grapple my 500-pound orc. No, your waspy elf will not out-eat him. I don't engage in magic contests with warriors, so stop trying to fist-fight me on a mage. So on and so forth.

In short, it depends on the situation. If a situation is "unfair" and a winner can be decided without much debate, then trust is fine. If a situation is "fair" and 50/50 odds work out, then rolls are fine. If a situation is "unfair" and one party or the other is being stubborn about who would win, then I just avoid the situation in the first place.

[Xigo]

... I prefer trust-fights. They're fun. So long as you're not going into it with the notion 'I MUST WIN' or 'IT MAKES NO SENSE FOR MY CHARACTER TO LOSE HERE', things work out fine.

Trust fighting's about trust. If you don't trust the other players involved to respect your character, don't do it.

[c0rzilla]

I once had a trust fight that lasted so long, because the other participant refused to admit defeat, dodging just about everything that the audience was about ready to jump in and pummel the guy themselves.

...Holy crap, run on sentence.

I really enjoy the writing that goes into trust. But, taking that chance with people you don't know is a risk. So, I use rolling with strangers.

[Bitlordman]

I respect everyone's opinion! But then again from what I've gathered to ''roll'' and ''trust'' fights. It doesn't matter if you lose or win as long as you have a fun and a realistic battle! A character can't always win he must sometimes accept a defeat no mather if it's the roll or the trust.

Im not sure if everybody has felt the death of a character very dear to him. It was my first time a character of mine dies. I won't go into details but yet it felt really unfair and sad for me. But then I realised that's what makes the roleplay fun and dramatic. That's why I accepted the ''Character Warning'' and continued playing.

And from all the comments I've made myself a decision. It doesn't matter if you ''roll'' or ''trust'' as long as it makes sence in battle!

[Spiky]

Logic has a place in both. It may not be constant, but it has it's moments in both trust and roll fights. The decision to include logic is entirely up to you, the player. There can be a logical reason for how someone did that one ridicoulous thing that has to be done since they won the roll by 1 or more. It's all about how you write it.

On the note in the OP how roll fights tend to have bland, short emotes, is again, entirely up to the players involved. Roll fights can be at least a little interesting, perhaps on par with trust fights.

S'some good points in this thread, but I think we've gone over them before.

[Hawk]

I don't engage in magic contests with warriors, so stop trying to fist-fight me on a mage.

I don't enter debates very often anymore, but this always confused and baffled me when non-physical classes challenged big burly fist fighters into brawls and expect to win.


But as for the topic at hand, never use trust in an event. Ever. Anyone remember Nostra's old Incursions event in Arathi Basin? I certainly do. He once tried to host a trust event between players, and people just downright refused to die, even when they were prone on the floor with several people trying to stab at them. Granted I was one of them, but this was something like four years ago. Maybe three. I wasn't willing to lose my character if others weren't.

My point is that in trust RP you need exactly what it says in the name. Trust. If you don't know the player and you haven't decided a winner before your drunken brawl outside of Ratchet then I'd strongly advise to use rolls. I personally only ever trust, like Grakor mentioned, if a victor is already decided before hand.

Not that rolls are fair at all, but they're somehow the most fair and unfair system we've got. And a thousand curses on those blasted numbers.

[Dae]

I still just can't wrap my head around the idea that some people can't let their character get defeated. I mean, I can't name any characters off the top of my head that are well-rounded, worthwhile characters to read/watch/follow/etc that have never lost. Conversely, every character I like, no matter how strong or epic, still loses, and is no less interesting for it.

I suppose I feel like problems with peoples' priorities cause more trouble with Trust fights than anything else. If you're writing your own story, fine. Make your characters as awesome as you want. But this is group storytelling, and if you prioritize an unhealthy association with your ego and your character's fighting prowess over other peoples' respect for you as a player in our merry band of digital improvisationalists, well...

Spoiler:

(Seriously, internet, this is the best WoW-related "ur doin it rong" picture you have to offer? I am DISAPPOINT.

That being said, if I wind up doing something like that that kills the RP fun, feel free to smack me with a fish, as I don't think anyone can actually see if they're doing it or not... :/
Just be nice when you feel the need to call someone out on it, and be willing to step back if all the other participants disagree with something you think. They're still your character; if its that damn important, you can retcon it later.