Sub-races and why We don't need to CMC them

[CappnRob]

Reigen and Loxx doing CMCs?

PARTY TIME!

[Jonoth]

Inb4 Mag'har outnumber green Orcs.

[Zhaei]

I think it's important to keep CMCs as something 'special'. While I am in favour of loosening the system, I think we should be careful not to go too overboard with leniency towards them. I realise I'm slippery-sloping, but I do actually think this particular issue could be a slippery slope.

Allowing our orange masters to approve CMCs would definitely be a good thing, though. It's common that CMCs are dropped quickly after approval (as there's no chance to play with and try out the character beforehand) so a more active rotation would be much better than how it is right now.

[Thoradin]

So, @Cerb57 found a few Forest Trolls who don't use the normal bulky model!

Spoiler:

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Thanks for the images Cerb! Now, let's see if we can't find some Ice Trolls who use the lanky model player model!

[c0rzilla]

Believe I found one for you, Thoradin.

Spoiler:

As well, before the 3.0.2 patch, I believe the Frostmane trolls in Dun Morogh had the regular troll model.

Edit: Like so!

[Thoradin]

Before Lich King, yes, but sadly they all sport that beefcake model (That I don't personally care for).

But still! Nice job c0r!

[FlyingSquirrel]

The .gif that you posted, c0r, is like the Dwarf bodies with the Wildhammer tattoes. Sure, it's there, but it ain't playable. If I were you, I know that the Death Knights can spot a pure-white skin. Then again, those eyes can be annoying.

[Dae]

I think it's important to keep CMCs as something 'special'.

Why?

As long as we kept up standards for good lore and power balance in characters, what's the problem? I know its a bit of a process to make a CMC account and all that jazz, but there's plenty of interesting races that are common enough and not OP. I'd love to see a guild of CMC Arakkoa, or a furbolg shaman trainer or even just someone playing a wildkin using the moonkin druid form. And yes, by current policy, you can't get by with a special profile, even if you don't need a custom model to actually play the character, like with female taunka.

Honestly, having more accessible races is a good way to attract more players. I know CotH doesn't want people who are just here for shiny stuff, but if unusual races were only about shiny stuff, we wouldn't have non-event CMCs at all.

That being said, yeah, I get it. There is a lot of potential for abuse and drama and such, and the internet makes drama breed like rabbits. Making a list of well-documented and supported races would lessen that risk down to not much more than any normally playable race, I'd like to think...

[Reigen]

Kretol is the one who makes the CMC rules, and even when talking to me about being able to approve them, he was very clear he did not want many going around at a time. Which, I can support honestly.

In the end, it comes down to what @Kretol says about it.

[Dae]

Kretol is the one who makes the CMC rules, and even when talking to me about being able to approve them, he was very clear he did not want many going around at a time. Which, I can support honestly.

In the end, it comes down to what @Kretol says about it.

I don't at all mean to sound... indignant? with the previous post. I simply see the good outweighing the bad in this matter. I genuinely would like an answer, as I generally have agreed with yall's decisions on handling the server, but I don't see the thought behind keeping the number of CMCs small. Is the possibilities for abuse greater than I expected? Is it more difficult than I imagine to deal with CMCs? Is there some other factor I'm just not seeing?

Also, I just realized...
CMC =
dammit, pastel horses.

[FlyingSquirrel]

I don't at all mean to sound... indignant? with the previous post. I simply see the good outweighing the bad in this matter. I genuinely would like an answer, as I generally have agreed with yall's decisions on handling the server, but I don't see the thought behind keeping the number of CMCs small. Is the possibilities for abuse greater than I expected? Is it more difficult than I imagine to deal with CMCs? Is there some other factor I'm just not seeing?

Well, imagine someone's hosting an event. I'm going to use Thor's Tol Barad as an example. You're supposed to have this giant, magnificent war of Humans and Dwarves and Night Elves, and instead, all the player characters bring are High Elves, Frostborn, maybe a Broken or two, and various other CMCs. Sure, one can say that there would be NPC Humans, but how much do NPCs really have an effect? I was going to ramble on more, but hopefully you all can see where I'm coming from.

I mean, I can understand overhauling the CMC system, but I do believe that their should be a low number of CMC's.

[Maulbane]

I've always understood the point of the CMC system to be to foster RP. It's supposed to be an altruistic system rather than just making characters for the sake of it - if you get a CMC, you're expected to have some level of activity as well as providing RP for others (which is why OOC shenanigans is pretty clearly outlawed for CMCs to begin with).

[Grakor456]

And yes, by current policy, you can't get by with a special profile, even if you don't need a custom model to actually play the character, like with female taunka.

Let me talk about this line for a bit. When it came to females for things like taunka and forest trolls, we decided to make them go by the same rules as the males. The main reason for this was that if you could much more easily roll a female taunka/forest troll than a male one, then there would be an unfair gender bias.

Regarding forest trolls in particular: there are NPCs that use the slimmer troll model (which looks hideous to my eyes, but tastes vary obviously.) However, this is largely immaterial: recent areas show that Blizzard intends for forest trolls to be displayed as being more bulky than their jungle troll cousins, and the models that aren't updated to reflect this are older models that...well, weren't updated. Blizzard's laziness shouldn't be cited as an excuse for something.

On the subject of "why should CMCs be special" there's a few reasons:

1. CMCs take a fair bit of work to make happen. The commands aren't too terrible, but it's still a fairly lengthy process to get everything squared away.

2. Most RP in WoW involves the two main factions in some way. Outsider characters are rare by design. See the above point from FlyingSquirrel about a mass of normally non-aligned races showing up for Alliance or Horde events, which is bound to happen. I've already seen the odd CMC make its way into Horde and/or Alliance specific guilds, which should be an exception, not the rule.

3. Specialness in itself is interesting with RP. If something is rare, there is greater novelty and a greater chance that something unique will come from the interaction. If CMCs were common, they would no longer be special.

That's not to say that CMCs shouldn't be looked at. The process with just Kretol was too slow for CMCs to make anything but a token appearance, which meant they never hit that sweet spot between being novel and impactful.

[Harmonic]

Blizzard's laziness shouldn't be cited as an excuse for something.

I would agree with you on the forest trolls---if they weren't mixed in with the bulky ones.

Also, in the factions, there are races that we can't play that are aligned with the Alliance. Broken, High Elves, and Frostborn are Alliance races. Same thing with the Pearl Fin Jinyu and the forest hosen, who are shown in a huge war there.

While I know that's Pandaria, it's a good example too in regards to there being more than what we think when it comes to battles. Should they be rare? Maybe... but again, that's more about what we want to make it, and less about what "Blizzard" does---because to be honest, blizz doesn't let us play that at all in the first place despite showing them frequently as being aligned with either factions.

Ogres and Hobgoblins are another thing---those aren't so rare, and often belong to the Horde faction.

[Grakor456]

I would agree with you on the forest trolls---if they weren't mixed in with the bulky ones.

Where is this the case?