Conquest of the Horde

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Seeing as you can roll an Undead Priest, but they cannot use the light, does this mean they cannot heal? Or do they heal using the forgotten shadow.

If so, can they heal the living using it?
They can't really heaaaaaaal I believe with the shadow, unless you count the vampiric do damage = heals buff, that could be Ic... I guess you could consider it a transfer of energy from one being to a 'nother?


Undead cannot use the Light, period... except for that one Horseman, that uber-Light Deff-knight.
They can "heal" other undead using the Shadow. It's more of a repair-process, hard to walk on a shattered knee.
You know how Forsaken can't be healed by the Light, but the living can? Well, the living can't be healed by the Shadow, but the Forsaken can. The Forsaken can heal one another, but it's more.... gritty, I'd think. Nothing heals exactly how it should and... Yeah.
So the idea of a forsaken priest is pretty pointless then? >.>
Shadow Priest. Facemelty. Mind-destroying.
Unless you're going to heal other Forsaken, the most you can do is destroy someone's brain or, hey, if you're feeling frisky, suck the life force from them.
Can't only Necromancers heal undead?
*roll's forsaken priest*
*Cast's flash of light on self*

...

Is this another case of blizzard putting gameplay before lore? Or could the forsaken have some way of wrangling the light to work to their will?
http://www.wowspoilers.com/Warcraft/Car ... elora.html

This card is an interesting one to mention in a discussion like this. Relevant quote: "The Light rewards faith, not form." Not saying I'm taking a side, just an interesting bit of info.
I wonder if one should be wary of rewriting Warcraft. We seem to be saying that Forsaken cannot be priests and yet in the game, the source of all canon, they can be. They do not have to be simply shadow priests but can be holy priests with powers and abilities not appreciably different from a human priest.

A human can't heal a forsaken but then he can't heal an orc or a troll either.

Forsaken can heal every other horde race

Nature magic heals Forsaken.

Are we just trying to find something else to call the light that heals forsaken, trying to make some distinction between what a forsaken priest does and what a human or Night Elf priest does?

Trolls can be priests do they use “te light mon”? They can heal forsaken with it, what are they using?
Cowssaymoo Wrote:Can't only Necromancers heal undead?
Ding, ding, ding! While it's not the only way that Forsaken can be healed, the necromancers of the Undercity are definitely one very visible method. It's also a very interesting twist on what is normally perceived to be an evil pursuit; within Forsaken society, necromancers are not just tolerated but also embraced due to the good that they can do for its people! Unfortunately, there is evidence that Sylvanas is having difficulties recruiting more necromancers to her cause as many resort to demon cults or even the Scourge to obtain more power.

According to the WoWWiki article on Necromancer:
Quote:The Dark Lady, Sylvanas Windrunner, realized how valuable necromancy was to their cause. Though Forsaken heal naturally, many go to the priests of the Forgotten Shadow for "repairs". Necromancers can also free enslaved, mindless undead and research powerful spells that might one day return the Forsaken to life. Sylvanas knew she needed necromancers to heal, strengthen and replace her people, and she set about wooing necromancers away from the Scourge, mainly by force.
Regarding Forsaken use of the Light, there have been many examples of the species being unable to wield the Light. I'm of the opinion that this is more cultural than biological; the vast majority of the Forsaken feel that the Light has forsaken them (how else can they justify the atrocities that have happened to them?) and so they have turned their backs on their former beliefs. While priests aren't exactly like paladins, there is still evidence that belief can influence its use and its effectiveness. So, if former priests of the Light no longer believe in the Light, it would be logical to assume that it wouldn't work for them.

Of course, this has resulted in a culture that is not just adverse to the Light but also chooses to publicly mock it and even outright attack those who still follow the Light. They're the sole group to give rise to Lightslayers -- essentially, zealous assassins who specifically target followers of the Light!

Unfortunately, I think this is a case where game mechanics and balancing issues have created a clash with the lore of the Warcraft universe. Because unduly restricting Forsaken characters from the Holy and Discipline trees would cause balance issues, no such barrier is in place.

I'm of the opinion that Forsaken can most likely wield the Light. However, it's ridiculously rare due to the beliefs into which the vast majority of their people have been indoctrinated. Use of the Light isn't just uncommon; it's not allowed by many of their organizations. An individual publically using the Light in front of others would most likely find himself in dire peril in a short time. Furthermore, perpetuation of the belief that the Light has turned its back on them has essentially stifled the likelihood of any Forsaken being able to wield the Light consistently.

From the Horde player's guide, we have this discussion:
Quote:"You wear the robes of a priest, Trevor. Why do you not channel the Light in battle, if you seek redemption?"

The priest seemed to wince at that. "While I refuse to wield the shadow, the Light has refused me, or so it seems. And so, I am truly a broken man; I learned to wield spears of Light like Uther's knights did in the Second. Without the Light, I am unarmed and unarmored -- but not entirely helpless, as you see."

Andarin couldn't help but feel a little sorry for the fallen priest, if his story was true. Perhaps a man, no matter how virtuous, could not channel holy power while in such a form.
While Trevor may still consider himself a priest of the Light, he is unable to wield his powers. I think it's important to emphasize, however, that he believes that the Light has refused him. This may not necessarily be the truth; instead, it might be a self-fulfilling prophecy. He believes that the Light has refused him and so he doesn't fully believe that he would be able to wield the Light when he did try. Without that faith to sustain his powers, he can't use the Light.

It is also important to consider that the vast majority (but by no means all) of the Forsaken are essentially portrayed as being evil; they are performing evil acts. I think that this is not a case of a group of people believing that that what they're doing is good. Instead, I think that they're lashing out because of what has happened to them. The events of the last decade have bred a culture that embraces the Shadow and its people willingly do evil as a result.


Edit:
Volshi Wrote:So the idea of a forsaken priest is pretty pointless then? >.>
Loathe as I am to make my already-long post even longer, I do want to touch on this.

Forsaken priests are primarily followers of the Shadow. If you'd like to follow that path, you may want to do research on the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow. They are the sole organized Forsaken religion. They are die-hard followers of the Shadow and thoroughly hate the Light and those who wield it. It does provide a wonderful source of roleplay.

As I noted earlier, I am of the opinion that a Light-based priest is possible in Forsaken society. However, repeated application of the idea that the Light has turned its back on the people and a culture that has chosen to revere the Shadow (and may violently treat those who wield the Light) would make the likelihood of this very minuscule.

It may be fun to pursue a Holy priest in Forsaken society (I personally love the idea of the tragic Holy priest), but you would have to be aware of the limiting constraints that would be in place. You have one of two paths available to you:
  • A Holy priest who is unable to wield the Light but still conforms to the beliefs of his faith and
  • A practicing Holy priest who is able to wield the Light.

In both situations, revelation of what your character is would mostly likely make you a target within Forsaken lands (and maybe even outside!). In particular, rabid followers of the Shadow would see your character's practices as a betrayal against his people. Practitioners of the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow may hunt you down and it wouldn't be too far-fetched to believe that a Lightslayer who learns of your character would decide to kill him. Embracing the Light (even if your character couldn't use it) would be pretty darned close to being the ultimate betrayal of the Forsaken. The only thing that I could think of being worse would be to return to the Scourge.

Of course, the aforementioned character would also provide ridiculous opportunity for roleplay and I can already see a number of potential storylines and plots that could arise from such a character!
So overall, It is possible for Forsaken to use the light if they still believe in it?

For example, If I made a forsaken priest, but in my profile I put something along the lines of, 'Has accepted his fate, but does not blame the Light in anyway, and still belives in it' theoretically I can still use the light?
I'm not a staff member and so my words only have weight as a result of being a loremonger, but I am personally of the opinion that it is possible, though there is no definitive proof of this within the World of Warcraft game. There is a strong argument that one could exist.

I'd like to reiterate, however, that being a Holy priest (and especially a practicing one) is not only very unlikely, but it would also result in very serious consequences among the Forsaken. Your character would most likely hide it due to the dire results that may occur if other Forsaken learned of it. Something like a Holy priest among the Forsaken wouldn't remain a secret for long once a handful knew; I'm certain that it's the kind of titillating tidbit that would spread like wildfire once the rumormill picked up on it. However, I'd consider it against the nature of a follower of the Holy Light to actively hide his faith, so this may be an anathema to the Forsaken if he was a priest or paladin during life.

Furthermore, do not be surprised if other Forsaken react negatively or even violently towards your character if it's apparent that he worships the Light. The Forsaken are unique in that the vast majority of them are fanatically -- and even rabidly -- loyal to their racial identity; having lost everything that originally made them who they were and having, even for a brief period of time, lost control of their own actions, the Forsaken cling to their new racial identity. This is doubly important because, for many of the Forsaken, Sylvanas or her necromancers helped free them of their bondage to the Scourge. A Forsaken who acts in the contrary to this unit would most likely be deemed a traitor.

In general, you character would most likely remain outside of Forsaken lands. The prejudices of the other races against the Forsaken, however, would also limit his ability to socialize with others; it would be very difficult for other people to accept that your character is so radically different from the norm.


Edit: I just pulled out one of the roleplaying guides and stumbled across this tidbit about the Forsaken:
Quote:Negative energy (such as from a death coil spell) heals Forsaken, while positive energy hurts them.
This piece of information would lead us to believe that if positive energy (the Light) harms the Forsaken, it would be probably impossible for them to wield the Light (especially without being harmed). I have a sneaky suspicion, however, that this is an adaptation of Dungeons and Dragons rules and not actually a part of the Warcraft universe. I have an older copy of the guide, so I'm not sure if this was changed in future editions.

Looking at the discussion page for the Forsaken article, this appears to have been retconned.

I'm of the opinion that, while use of the Light is sustained on belief, there is no such requirement for receiving the Light. This would also give credence to the card that miss C0rzilla posted, since the quote refers to a time after the retcon may have occurred.
Undead are hurt by holy energies in Warcraft universe, forsaken included.

A corpse could wield the Light but will in doing so quite quickly bring his own demise.


An important note is that even the Forgotten Shadow teach and learn the Light, it even becomes appearent in in-game quests, know thine enemy and such. I think perhaps a forsaken priest can here begin to sway to the Light, and by choosing this topic as his specialty also rather easily hide his faith.
I personally believe that Forsaken CAN use holy powers, however, are affected by it negatively IN MOST CASES.

Although, WoW is mostly based on gameplay mechanics. The light can serve to heal and harm both living and undead. An example of this would be [spell]48123[/spell]. Smite, in my opinion, would actually BURN the victim using an extremely potent light. Light in most cases = heat. Heat = ouch. Although, I believe that such a spell would be more effective against Undead, however still effective against the living.

The Light doesn't specifically judge against the Undead based on their physical form, but rather their way of thinking. Say a Priest used Smite against an Undead Warlock. The Priest would WTFPWNT the Warlock in such a case. However, a Priest against an Undead Priest, or an Undead who employs a holy way of thinking, it'd be a lot less effective.

My opinion, tl;dr, "The light will always be by your side if you truly believe. If you do truly believe, neither can the light harm you."
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