I have spoken with Kretol on this subject, and the conclusion we have reached is thus: Guild advertisements are starting to seriously clutter the LookingForGroup channel, and are leading to its spam and detracting from its real purpose (the finding of roleplay). As a result, we are no longer allowing guild advertisements on this channel.
We encourage people to do their guild advertising ICly and on the guild board here on the forums. We are currently looking into other ways in which you might be able to advertise channels as well, but for now avoid doing so in-game on OOC channels.
Might I suggest the creation of a chat channel by the name of LookingForGuild, where people interested in guild announcements can choose to opt-in and see who's advertising?
Myeah... Or we use the Guild Recruitment channel.
That works too. That is, if people really feel they must advertise OOCly in game to draw in members.
Well, I figured, that whispering people and asking them directly is successfuller anyway. It feels more personal and it really works out.
Just trying it the roleplay way is of course the most difficult one, but it's roleplay guild recruiting CoTH style!
Mayson Wrote:Well, I figured, that whispering people and asking them directly is successfuller anyway. It feels more personal and it really works out.
I personally think that this way is a bit too... Eh, I can't think of the word, so let's travel into Pies' brain to find it!
See, when whispering someone with a statement like "I see your character is an Engineer of [race/faction], and you are not a member of any guild. I am offering you the opportunity to join [guild] via an RP session." the receiver is more than likely at liberty to join BECAUSE of the personal thing. Now, I'm not accusing guild leaders of it, but I do believe this way of recruiting is sort of "bullying" in a sense. The receiver of the /whisper is more than likely going to join the guild on the grounds that they don't want to insult the sender of the /whisper.
Right now, however, I'd like to propose something which I KNOW will never happen - RP at places you're meant to regarding your faction, race, class and IC profession. A Gnomish Engineer isn't going to be hanging around Booty Bay all day - they'll be in Ironforge, tinkering away. This way, guilds centered around Engineering would be able to find this Gnome a lot easier, and under better IC conditions. (Flame me for this suggestion regarding a character not wanting to follow the norm, and I -will- ignore it.)
Anyway, regarding the guild advertisements, a channel used solely for that may work. It may not. I personally think it's out best option we've had so far, and I can't think of anything more effective. However, instead of using the pre-existing "LookingForGuild" channel, use an alternate, player-created one. This way, people interested in joining a guild of their own accord would be able to do so without being pressured into it, due to joining said channel of their own free will.
I'm just glad I won't have to see guild advertisements anymore. Basically, I just feel as if forum posts and/or word of mouth gets the advertisement done in the best way. Otherwise it just feels...very...derpish. What's the word I'm looking form. Mechanical! That. I agree with just about everything Pies said, by the way (just so my post isn't particularly useless).
I definately feel like all guild recruitment should be IC, or by forums, personally. If you're desperate for people to join your guild, then start screaming it on the street corners ICly. ICly, people won't know about your cause if you never tell anyone about it, and OOCly, if noone knows about it, how will they join? Just have you magically single out there char and invite them?
IMO, IC word-of-mouth should be the primary way to recruit, and OOC should be little to none.
Well, there is a problem with that for some guilds. Normally, I'm not going to be walking around IC yelling about the Echo of Despair. It's only mention in hushed whispers in the Catacombs. Hard to RP that out when most people are doing their own thing down there.
I'll still advertise once we figure out another way IG to OOC recruit, it's just simply reminding people "Hey, why not try this guild?". Maybe 1/4 people will take the time to check out the guild threads... Why should they when they spot a guild recruiting that suits their needs on the spot?
Just my advice from being a guildz leader fo sho in other games. :3
Well only guilds I've so far been involved in is right now something I marely stumbled on in and got ICly recruited. Nothing ooc about it. And I loved them for that it. I dont like the idea of recruiting oocly like people have done. It's actally been bugging me off greatly.
Despite people's beliefs on how guild recruitment should go, I think it's ultimately up to the guild and the players. Some people do better getting recruited OOC and arranging IC recruitment on a later date. I think I've seen some rather successful guilds do this.
The only problem, however, is when the OOC recruitment starts to get disruptive. The problem isn't that OOC recruitment is happening, it's that it was starting to get routine and spammy and LFG should be looking for roleplay. However, I do think that guilds can have legitimate reasons to recruit OOCly, and we shouldn't knock someone for how they choose to handle their own guilds.
My two cents... * clears throat *
I think the problem with LFG isn't guild recruiting, it's people Lolzing or having Barrens material conversations in the chat. LFG is the best place, if not Barrens. Because everybody is on it, when you join a guild you exit the guild recruitment. Making a new guild channel wont work because people wont consciously join it. Not like chat and barrens.
I also am for guild advertisement because it helps people out. Both the player and Guild creator. Not everyone follows the forums like some of us do. People play day in and day out and are oblivious to our story-lines and guild threads. Guild advertisement helps the Guild creator get the name out, you have to. It sounds cheap and iffy I agree, but you have to do it. Look at every successful guild now, everyone of them had to advertise at least -once-. We have all tried to start a guild and it never got off, it was because no one knew about it. Guild posts are a form of advertisement. Usually the people with the best looking guild posts get the highest hits, highest responses, and highest member count. It's always been like that. Since I've been here at least. And that's not bad, it's just what it is.
But I think what this addresses and this could be my misinterpretation are the pre-written email spam like advertisements that do pop up like every half hour. Which is still a minor inconvenience, but just really unnecessary. We saw your advertisement, if no one whispers you in 5-15mins. That's your answer. Try tomorrow.
I personally don't see Guild advertisements as a big deal. I think they are more frequent than they should be, and it should be toned down. But I think the barrens-y stuff in LFG should be more important. LFG's channel name is super long and seeing it pop up 4 times because people are lol'sing about a joke someone made in a response to someone requesting for RP gets old. And now that we can't tell people to take it to barrens it's annoying. [Some random person] "Well just leave the chat then." True, but LFG is one of those channels you want to be in, or at least I do, And I don't want to leave the chat just because people chose to ignore the rules on the wiki.
wuvvums Wrote:Despite people's beliefs on how guild recruitment should go, I think it's ultimately up to the guild and the players. Some people do better getting recruited OOC and arranging IC recruitment on a later date. I think I've seen some rather successful guilds do this.
The only problem, however, is when the OOC recruitment starts to get disruptive. The problem isn't that OOC recruitment is happening, it's that it was starting to get routine and spammy and LFG should be looking for roleplay. However, I do think that guilds can have legitimate reasons to recruit OOCly, and we shouldn't knock someone for how they choose to handle their own guilds.
I think Wuvvums addressed the initial issue better. I would like to add though.
I don't see why we can't advertise in Barrens at least. If I can talk about Chuck Norris beating unicorns with a ham sandwich. Write the lyrics to "This is my horse, my horse is amazing" back to back. I should be able to say, "Hey who wants to join my guild?" That's more RP relevant than 95% of barrens material.
McKnighter Wrote:Well, there is a problem with that for some guilds. Normally, I'm not going to be walking around IC yelling about the Echo of Despair. It's only mention in hushed whispers in the Catacombs. Hard to RP that out when most people are doing their own thing down there.
The Echo are meant to be a secret Guild, yes? Yet, when advertising OOCly, it seems just about anyone will randomly turn up in the Catacombs, knocking on Redis's door for an invite. I think it's escpecially appropriate for secret guilds to have 'recruiters' to hang around in cities, or wherever people RP, for the purpose of spotting candidates and luring them away, rather than OOC adverts that will attract any and all while ruining the veil of secrecy. A mage would be best for this, what with the teleporting and such.
EDIT;
Just so it's clear, I'm not attacking the Echo personally, your circumstances just made a good example for my point. Nor am I trying to dictate how you -should- recruit. Just ideas.
PiesOfNub Wrote:Mayson Wrote:Right now, however, I'd like to propose something which I KNOW will never happen - RP at places you're meant to regarding your faction, race, class and IC profession. A Gnomish Engineer isn't going to be hanging around Booty Bay all day - they'll be in Ironforge, tinkering away. This way, guilds centered around Engineering would be able to find this Gnome a lot easier, and under better IC conditions. (Flame me for this suggestion regarding a character not wanting to follow the norm, and I -will- ignore it.)
Yush, sadly, you can't RP on your own, and these areas are rarely to never populated.
Maybe we could have a "Looking for guild" subforum.