Conquest of the Horde

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The following opinions expressed in this rant are solely of Stormgald's and are not to be taken personally or as a threat to any individual or group. All opinions in this rant are expressed in their fullest and to the best of Stormgald's knowledge. Feel free to respond with your thoughts and opinions.


Alright, I've decided to share my views on our beloved Role-Playing private server. First off I would like to applaud our GMs for their hard work and dedication to the server. I am glad to have such a great group of mature and caring people as our awesome and esteemed Game Masters.

Now, I do however have a few topics that I think might be worth some debating. The first is chat channel policing. GMs are now the only players allowed to do this. I half agree. Now, I understand that people have been approaching this subject in a rude or careless-for-an-individual's-feelings manner(for lack of better terminology.) I myself have been a member of this great server for a bit over a year now and I feel all players should have the right to give a friendly reminder to other players who may be abusing the chat channels. Ever since a little bit before the restart I think CotH has been going a little too hard on the wrong players. When I first joined the server I found CotH to be a sort of "friendly Role-Playing Boot Camp." I know that seems a bit oxymoronical but what I'm basically trying to say is this: They are strict but friendly, they want to help you improve your Role-Playing skills and it shouldn't be taken as a rude gesture. - Now, that being said I would like to get back on track, I think CotH is going a little to easy on our newcomers and are sort of being a bit harder on our veteran players. I mean, why take that away? What if a situation gets out of hand and there are no GMs online, or that particular GM is AFK or simply not paying attention to a particular channel. We are supposed to leave /chat or /barrens if we don't like it? What? No, I feel that person making a mockery of said channel should be warned, even if not by a GM. Something like "Hey, the words you are using can be seen as offensive to other players. I would suggest you take it to adult." Don't worry, I plan to keep my blabbing mouth shut unless this new rule is overturned or rewritten.

What I would suggest on the matter is anyone who is seen approaching the situation in a rude manner should be warned rather than having all channel reminders come to a screeching halt. I just think that our newcomers should be given the same treatment most of us veteran players have been given, which is not bad mind you, just a tad more strict. However, I do see many things are still the same so I can't complain too much.

Another matter is the guild recruitment posts in LFG. I have been in agreement that these really should never have come into play in the first place. So I am simply stating that I agree in full with the most recent post about them being abolished. It was starting to look a lot like retail which is exactly what the vast majority of us are trying to escape.

Yet another matter that I saw was posted and now locked so I wont go into great detail about, was having more GM commands given to us in our own individual phasing areas. Wait what? First of all .addrpitem is already being abused(in a way.) .addrpitem is already a huge leap forward in our Role-Playing experience. Now, the only way I see that .addrpitem is being abused is people are beginning to look way too "1337" and a lot of our characters are beginning to look like geared PvP toons. Which again is starting to look like retail... I guess that is not a very large issue though, not at all really. Remember this is just a rant ;).

So, another matter. People changing wardrobes during RP. To be honest I see this way to much. So much in fact that it is getting irritating in the extreme. Now changing wardrobes by walking into another room and back really doesn't bother me because there is usually a reason for the wardrobe change and we really don't need to take a long time changing, we get the picture. But wardrobe changing right in front of my eyes with no explanation? What? Am I supposed to notice your quick change act IC? If so, what is my character supposed to say? Uncomfortable... I mean, I understand if someone tells you something like "Oh crap, wrong wardrobe. Lets just say I came in with this one." OOCly, that's totally cool, it happens! But when it's happening with no explanation it is just giving me a not-so-good impression on said player, and by that I don't mean to be harsh, but I just can't take people like that seriously as Role-players. Okay, yes we all have our flaws, we're all imperfect. I am also not saying I haven't done nubby things in the past, but when someone does it over and over it gets annoying and makes the experience much less enjoyable. Oy.

The DND tag. I have seen this countless times. The DND tag is not a cruise control for being able to do whatever you want OOCly in a currently populated RP area. I'm not talking about going DND because your character really isn't in that particular area at that particular moment. That's OK, that's why we have the DND tag, well, that's why we use it for being OOC. What I'm saying is I've seen people go DND and start dancing on tables and the like. What? I know right? This has to stop. Although I have to say I don't see that as often as people going DND and standing on top of (or 'inside' rather) another player. Or what I see most often, DND spies. That is what we call metagaming in it's most basic form. Now what I mean by this is people go DND and stand near an RP session and spy and later use that information against said RPers.

Okay, just one last thing. I see people doing a lot of stuff IC that they really shouldn't be doing. Like speaking Eredun in a Stormwind tavern... IC actions have IC consequences. Do not expect your character to survive long if you are doing such things. Also, wardrobe, if you are wearing that runed lock gear that makes you look like you have your holidays confused, don't expect to be overlooked by possible Witch Hunters. I have seen this in multiple cases and I am just using Warlocks as an easy example.

Alright, well, I guess that's it until I can think of something else. And remember, I say this all with love. :)

P.s. Again, feel free to respond with your thoughts and opinions!

Signed,
Etc... Etc...
Stormgald
I'm just going to comment on the DND thing.
I'm sure it's be mentioned before that it's not supposed to be used in that way. And being OOC watching an RP is a bit against the rules if I do recall.

A lot of people have been complaining about the IC consequences, but then do nothing themselves ICly.
Too many people take it as an OOC attack.
Something something. I lost my train of thought.
Any and all offenses perpetrated by players while the GMs are not watching should be reported and sent to one of us directly, Stormgald. Someone being rude or breaking the chat channels without reprimand from unwatchful GMs, people using the DND tag and not being out of the way and someone abusing guards are all against our rules. While we do appreciate the notice, it is a moot point in saying, as the only solution is to send it to the staff rather than chastise the player base and hope they change.

As for the wardrobes and the addrpitem command, there is nothing we can do about this. If someone's being overtly powerful with their clothing to the point of metagaming, it is a break of the rules and should be reported. If they're dressed ridiculously, that's their prerogative.
To continue; we do not bias on warnings between our veterans and our newcomers at first glance. However, veterans of the server should know when they're breaking a rule and are the models of the server, in a sense that they should not do it. We give everyone an equal warning however, but to the newcomers it is a warning of what they are doing is wrong, incase they didn't know. To the veterans, it is a matter of telling them that they should know better and they are doing wrong. If someone goes around swearing in a chat channel, it leaves an impression on people who don't know better, versus the people who do know better and know the GMs aren't online or paying attention.
Very true. *sigh* And I was all proud of myself... Oh boo, oh well. I just figured I'd post it for discussion purposes. And as my little discretionary warning stated, I do not mean to sound threatening to any individual or group. I was simply stating that we should all work together to keep everything mature. Also as I said toward the end, it was all out of love! <3 CotH. Don't ban meh! D:> /cower. Also please don't make it out to sound as if I was bashing CotH rules and GMs, it was all speculative.
No, it's not bashing at all, however it could have been thought out a bit more. We are welcome for anyone to discuss objective manners in a civil way, which this was. Although it could have been better handled just simply speaking to the GM staff over the problems, naturally.
Advice taken. Thanks so much!
A well thought out post, and I essentially agree with your points. Though, what Anski says is correct. The GMs have higher expectations of veterans than they do newcomers.
Stormgald Wrote:Now, the only way I see that .addrpitem is being abused is people are beginning to look way too "1337" and a lot of our characters are beginning to look like geared PvP toons. Which again is starting to look like retail... I guess that is not a very large issue though, not at all really. Remember this is just a rant ;).

This is what bothers me too. I'm sick of going around seeing people who could use their shoulders to kill an entire line of soldiers by running into them, lulz. It's ugly (point blank period) and it doesn't look very good on many characters, especially when you consider who they are supposed to be. I do think that once the character gets to a higher level the armor tends to look like a walking torture device, but there is an excuse for some, especially because of the skim choice for Tauren and Orc males. (I'm sure there are other races and genders that I don't know or forgot about that are in the same situation.) It truly aggravates me because Tauren are known for their casual and simple clothing style.

Quick, we need a CoTH Coco Chanel. Look in the mirror and take at least one thing off!

P.S. I'm not dead CoTH community, I'm just being force-fed education that I already know.
Lovely rant, I enjoyed reading that.

Much alike Xigo above me, I do agree with many of these points. The policing of chat channels, we shouldn't be allowed to actually force people to change channels but just giving the occasional 'I believe this should go to Barrens' and then nothing more should be quite fine. It's not really policing, just as Stormglad said, it's just a friendly reminder that what they're talking about might be disturbing someones RP. I mean, we shouldn't have to leave Chat, the channel we should leave if we're being a little bit annoyed by a mass of talk is Barrens.

Guild recruitment in LFG. Yeah, I agree, not much to say there.

However, the .addrp problem is something which you can change rather easily. If someone looks like a war hardened warrior at their peak and could probably take down a dragon or two by their freaky looks and your character is a commoner, it would only make sense for your character to avoid them. Same if they look like a warlock, you might get suspicious about them and think 'Yup, not going to talk to that person' or even think, if they're a goody-goody, 'I might follow this person and if they end up being a warlock, I'll slice their face off'.

Wardrobes during RP, yup, not much to say there. Just OOCly ask '. . . What just happened?' and see what their reaction is. It'll be funny.

Now, the DND tag. While it is quite fine for someone to use their DND tag to watch an RP as long as they have permission from the Rping party and they stay out of the way, using DND to dance on tables and just act like an idiot is just not okay. I've seen this happen a few times and, frankly, it's not funny, it's annoying. Anyone who's done this and is reading, stop, it's silly.

IC actions have IC consequences. You speak Eredun inside Stormwind, the guards will be on you before you can blink. While no one else may understand Eredun, it's pretty obvious if it's that certain language, after all in this world, you understand if someone is speaking English or French or Japanese rather easily.

That is all. Once again, all said with love.
Concerning policing chat channels...

Something that is being missed is that, yes, in theory it should be okay for a player to say "I think this should go in X channel, if you would" an be all nice and sunshine about it. Practice has proven that 9 times out of 10, this does not happen. Even more difficult than this, however, is trying to sort through the ambiguity of it. Someone could answer with just "Barrens." Is that rude? I think it is, but to someone else, they may truly believe it is a perfectly fine response. This is the same reason we disallow swearing in public channels, because the difference of swearing in general and swearing AT someone can be very thin at times. It's better to just shut off the source of the problem then try to deal with the drama of trying to make arbitrary judgments on this.
For clarification, Stormgald had looked over my rant and approved it. Just clarifying.

It's surprising that you find your rant in any way offensive. I've taken the liberty to compose my own rant to reflect off of yours indirectly (before discussion had begun), and to ensure that I don't get the spot light, I'd appreciate it if you gathered the information I give you with a grain of salt. Since my speech is much more persuasive, it can be a bit abrasive to the sensitive bunches in our community. I remember, long ago, helping Stormgald with a profile, and I intend to expound upon my infinite knowledge by ranting myself. As a fair warning, I didn't read it aloud, so it's subject to horribly misshaped sentences and extra wordings.

Unfortunately, CotH gives the impression to a lot of players that we all need to be accepting and congenial to each other, and while that's a really cool thing and we all should totally aim for that, it's really a dystopian-kind of ideology. In a dystopia, it is commonly confused with a utopia—Everything's perfect, orderly and in place. However, in the deep confines it smothers self-expression, shuns cultural diversity/progression and overall disencourages a higher form of thinking which could lead to rebellion, or in our case, conflict. While I agree, it's not as extreme in our case, it is true that it still exists in our servers society. We fear so much that if conflict ever is on the rise, drama will come down and flood us—The GM's will be left with no choice but to vicissitude into a stricter form of governing, imposing rules that would limit our RolePlaying experience because we're not able to handle it. This isn't a bad thing, it's the ideal thing for the GM's to do—The real focus isn't on the cause, as a troll can only troll if one takes the bait.

To further explain, I will use an example to display how deeply I felt when regarding this matter. At one point, I was told by Bolshe (or as TwilightDisciple had stated “a very good weasel”) that the GM's would go on “civilian accounts” to get players they didn't like into situations where the only suitable option was to ban. While now, that might seem (or atleast seem to me) like a preposterous and self-defeating thing, I wont lie that there was a time where I believed him whole-heartedly, like I myself had experienced it. It's not really something that has to be worked on with the Game Masters, as much as it needs to be worked on by the players. We've unknowingly created an environment full of restraint, where the idea of “disrespect” could be confused with the tale aforementioned, where we think that we're all good and dandy because we're being “polite” and “reasonable”, when in reality it's far from the truth.

Another problem deals with characters dying. People do not realize how valuable a tool death can be. We're so wound up in keeping our characters alive, we forget the fact that they're moral values and ideologies become more important, more alive than ever when they die (assuming said character has socialized quite a bit). We squander with resurrections, the idea that we should not be in a roleplay we are not comfortable with, how we must all be happy tea-party elves and live forever and ever. It truly makes me sick when I see words from a GRUNT saying, “if we die, we can resurrect after a week” in a serious discussion regarding a life-threatening event. I cringed at this not because it showed exactly how Mayson throws around the idea of characters dying as a simple thing, but because he showed me that some of the new grunts today are not ready for an advanced form of roleplay beyond modern social standards. Resurrections are not a practical thing, and the administrative team had made sure of that. Anytime we don't feel comfortable, we can forget that our characters are responsible for their actions, put our hand up in ignorance and choose to squelch the idea of negative aspects effecting our character. We can all live happily ever after, while still pretending to be rough and tough, while still engaging in “non-fatal” conflict, while still making sure that our characters are just fine with the minorities in society that, in this time period, would be appropriate to punish for their difference.

In real life, it is ideal to be as open minded as possible, accepting everything as the truth because it is all perspective, being agnostic and respectful to everyone despite his or her previous actions. Heck, that's how I live my own life. However, this is commonly confused with our character concepts, as the majority of the player base implements this into their characters (or a humanitarian form) in hope to reduce the amount of abrasion caused by differentiating cultures and ideas. This is okay if you are new to RolePlay, but if you are still that Blood Elf in Booty Bay who is really nice to everyone and doesn't want to hurt anyone, you need to realize how backwards your character is in the given society.

As players (Grunts) it's our responsibility to aspire to create a milieu that represents realism in a culture dictated by lore and archaic ideologies that are ignore our ideas because we transitioned lengthy revolutions in advanced society (Take the Women Rights Movement for example). It is imperative that we serve newcomers advice from our (once) lengthy days as Peons ourselves. I cannot stress how critical it is to represent proper behavior in argument, to think before you speak, to be considerate and open to all ways of thinking that progresses upwards. When you do not, you show how little worth your title of a Grunt means, and to be frank, it seems to me that all you did was wait a few months and write a few things in order to socially advance in our community. I find this unfortunate because they are our lifeblood of our server, the representatives and examples for all to observe and admire.

Now that's a spicy meatball.

I'd suggest that if you're upset about what I wrote, hit the PM button and we'll debate in private. I scarcely doubt anyone would appreciate an argument in a rambling thread, since that would only spell certain destruction. It should be noted that these are only my opinions based off past experiences and observation of the people I see now, accompanied with my ideal solutions and analysis.
Spoiler:
Sourpuddle Wrote:For clarification, Stormgald had looked over my rant and approved it. Just clarifying.

It's surprising that you find your rant in any way offensive. I've taken the liberty to compose my own rant to reflect off of yours indirectly (before discussion had begun), and to ensure that I don't get the spot light, I'd appreciate it if you gathered the information I give you with a grain of salt. Since my speech is much more persuasive, it can be a bit abrasive to the sensitive bunches in our community. I remember, long ago, helping Stormgald with a profile, and I intend to expound upon my infinite knowledge by ranting myself. As a fair warning, I didn't read it aloud, so it's subject to horribly misshaped sentences and extra wordings.

Unfortunately, CotH gives the impression to a lot of players that we all need to be accepting and congenial to each other, and while that's a really cool thing and we all should totally aim for that, it's really a dystopian-kind of ideology. In a dystopia, it is commonly confused with a utopia—Everything's perfect, orderly and in place. However, in the deep confines it smothers self-expression, shuns cultural diversity/progression and overall disencourages a higher form of thinking which could lead to rebellion, or in our case, conflict. While I agree, it's not as extreme in our case, it is true that it still exists in our servers society. We fear so much that if conflict ever is on the rise, drama will come down and flood us—The GM's will be left with no choice but to vicissitude into a stricter form of governing, imposing rules that would limit our RolePlaying experience because we're not able to handle it. This isn't a bad thing, it's the ideal thing for the GM's to do—The real focus isn't on the cause, as a troll can only troll if one takes the bait.

To further explain, I will use an example to display how deeply I felt when regarding this matter. At one point, I was told by Bolshe (or as TwilightDisciple had stated “a very good weasel”) that the GM's would go on “civilian accounts” to get players they didn't like into situations where the only suitable option was to ban. While now, that might seem (or atleast seem to me) like a preposterous and self-defeating thing, I wont lie that there was a time where I believed him whole-heartedly, like I myself had experienced it. It's not really something that has to be worked on with the Game Masters, as much as it needs to be worked on by the players. We've unknowingly created an environment full of restraint, where the idea of “disrespect” could be confused with the tale aforementioned, where we think that we're all good and dandy because we're being “polite” and “reasonable”, when in reality it's far from the truth.

Another problem deals with characters dying. People do not realize how valuable a tool death can be. We're so wound up in keeping our characters alive, we forget the fact that they're moral values and ideologies become more important, more alive than ever when they die (assuming said character has socialized quite a bit). We squander with resurrections, the idea that we should not be in a roleplay we are not comfortable with, how we must all be happy tea-party elves and live forever and ever. It truly makes me sick when I see words from a GRUNT saying, “if we die, we can resurrect after a week” in a serious discussion regarding a life-threatening event. I cringed at this not because it showed exactly how Mayson throws around the idea of characters dying as a simple thing, but because he showed me that some of the new grunts today are not ready for an advanced form of roleplay beyond modern social standards. Resurrections are not a practical thing, and the administrative team had made sure of that. Anytime we don't feel comfortable, we can forget that our characters are responsible for their actions, put our hand up in ignorance and choose to squelch the idea of negative aspects effecting our character. We can all live happily ever after, while still pretending to be rough and tough, while still engaging in “non-fatal” conflict, while still making sure that our characters are just fine with the minorities in society that, in this time period, would be appropriate to punish for their difference.

In real life, it is ideal to be as open minded as possible, accepting everything as the truth because it is all perspective, being agnostic and respectful to everyone despite his or her previous actions. Heck, that's how I live my own life. However, this is commonly confused with our character concepts, as the majority of the player base implements this into their characters (or a humanitarian form) in hope to reduce the amount of abrasion caused by differentiating cultures and ideas. This is okay if you are new to RolePlay, but if you are still that Blood Elf in Booty Bay who is really nice to everyone and doesn't want to hurt anyone, you need to realize how backwards your character is in the given society.

As players (Grunts) it's our responsibility to aspire to create a milieu that represents realism in a culture dictated by lore and archaic ideologies that are ignore our ideas because we transitioned lengthy revolutions in advanced society (Take the Women Rights Movement for example). It is imperative that we serve newcomers advice from our (once) lengthy days as Peons ourselves. I cannot stress how critical it is to represent proper behavior in argument, to think before you speak, to be considerate and open to all ways of thinking that progresses upwards. When you do not, you show how little worth your title of a Grunt means, and to be frank, it seems to me that all you did was wait a few months and write a few things in order to socially advance in our community. I find this unfortunate because they are our lifeblood of our server, the representatives and examples for all to observe and admire.

Now that's a spicy meatball.

I'd suggest that if you're upset about what I wrote, hit the PM button and we'll debate in private. I scarcely doubt anyone would appreciate an argument in a rambling thread, since that would only spell certain destruction. It should be noted that these are only my opinions based off past experiences and observation of the people I see now, accompanied with my ideal solutions and analysis.

I think a lot of people should read the above.
There are many things I can say to parallel it, but I will not.
This is purely for the reason that the majority of the offenders aren't going to bother to read it.
Even if they do read it, they're going to brush it off and ignore it.

The worst role players in this community aren't really those who are new and don't know any better,
they are the ones who refuse to change and improve themselves.

I give many gold stars to sourpuddle because I felt the same way about almost all of it.

Edit: Mispelled a word. Just woke up. Meh.
Sourpuddle Wrote:[...]
For clarification, Stormgald had looked over my rant and approved it. Just clarifying.
Another problem deals with characters dying. People do not realize how valuable a tool death can be. We're so wound up in keeping our characters alive, we forget the fact that they're moral values and ideologies become more important, more alive than ever when they die (assuming said character has socialized quite a bit). We squander with resurrections, the idea that we should not be in a roleplay we are not comfortable with, how we must all be happy tea-party elves and live forever and ever. It truly makes me sick when I see words from a GRUNT saying, “if we die, we can resurrect after a week” in a serious discussion regarding a life-threatening event. I cringed at this not because it showed exactly how Mayson throws around the idea of characters dying as a simple thing, but because he showed me that some of the new grunts today are not ready for an advanced form of roleplay beyond modern social standards. Resurrections are not a practical thing, and the administrative team had made sure of that. Anytime we don't feel comfortable, we can forget that our characters are responsible for their actions, put our hand up in ignorance and choose to squelch the idea of negative aspects effecting our character. We can all live happily ever after, while still pretending to be rough and tough, while still engaging in “non-fatal” conflict, while still making sure that our characters are just fine with the minorities in society that, in this time period, would be appropriate to punish for their difference.
[...]

Just to add the backround, which was given:
The line you just quoted was used by me to calm people in a thread down, who just blocked the idea of a guild member with the simple excuse "Our new base could be in danger". They wrote, that they were OOCly concerned to lose some minor IC advantages, which would be endangered earlier or later anyway due to the role the players chose (They were members of the Heretic Circus, which implies, that their character is endangered) and in return I answered, that in a worst case scenario they could die, but in the long run, they don't really "lose" something, when they roleplay. And I was saying that, because I had the situation several times on retail. People stop to have their RP to prevent 'OOC losses' and overdo it in a way, which leads to the death of the guild and it's roleplay.

And besides that, I actually do respect characters of others. The thing I always avoid is actually killing the characters of others off, because in most cases it can demotivate the other player or pull his character out of roleplay for at least one week, if not longer. I don't view character deaths as something simple.

So yeah, just a misunderstanding. No hard feelings.
Let's keep this civil and non-personal, guys. I would hate to have to lock this thread.
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