Conquest of the Horde

Hey guys, it's Esth here.

Not a lot of you may know me, even though I was around for two years.

So let's get down to basics - This is my own little thread about everything we've all been on about.

Number 1: Prestige.

Alrighty, here's the starting point, because it's been the topic of argument for ages, lately. I honestly don't think Prestige should have EVER been implemented - and don't misunderstand me. This isn't because prestige is a flawed system. It's not because I never was approved for prestige. This is an honest opinion coming from a person who NEVER had a prestige thread, and never got what they wanted from a prestige aspect, despite wanting one. It's basic psychology.

Have you heard of the concept of intrinsic and extrinsic motivation? Well, here's a basic rundown of the idea. A person who is intrinsically motivated will do something because they enjoy it, whereas an extrinsically motivated person will do something because of the reward it brings to them. We're all extrinsically motivated, to an extent. We like to be given rewards, whatever those rewards may be.

Here's where it gets a bit more complicated, y'all. There have been studies that have gone into the effects on intrinsic motivation when an extrinsic motivator is introduced. A general idea that comes up rather often is that one will be less intrinsically motivated after an extrinsic motivator is introduced and removed. That makes logical sense, doesn't it? Imagine doing something you enjoy, like solving a puzzle, for example. Now imagine that you're told that for every puzzle you complete, you'll receive a piece of cake (or another coveted object.) After two puzzles in two days, though, they inform you that they've run out of cake, and you won't be receiving any for the rest of the puzzles you complete. How would you feel? I'd feel a little ripped off, wouldn't you?

Well, let's apply this to the point. You enjoy RPing - if you didn't, chances are, you wouldn't be on an RP server for WoW. You love it here, and you're contently RPing your warrior/mage/rogue/etc. One day, the GM's say, "Hey, everyone. We just completed this brand new system in which you can become so much more than a warrior/mage/rogue/etc. with some hard work and character development!" How do you feel? Now, you can become an archmage, you can be a necromancer! Oh, what fun! You get to work on making one of your characters ready for the new avenues, when the GM's regret to inform you that, due to some misunderstandings with how the system works and inherent flaws with the system, they need to shut it down for a bit.

How do you feel? Don't you feel a bit ripped off? Well, since Prestige is a biiiiig thing, and it requires a lot of work, that's happened a number of times. Every time that happened, people got more and more discontent. Why, might you ask? It's very likely because, since this little gem was introduced to you, you all lost a lot of tolerance for just having a fun time with your RP. It suddenly became, "Who has that demon hunter? Who is a fel-sworn? Who can beat whom in a fight?" Because you now had this little reward for having a good time. Once it was dropped, you guys felt like you couldn't live without it, even though you had a good time before it was even introduced. You forgot that you had a good time without it.

Honestly, we've become so wrapped up in who has the most, "character development" and power because of their character's development, that we lost track of the fact that this place is for fun. It's not about who can beat who. It's not about who rose to the top the fastest. What CotH is really about is getting together with other people and WRITING AN INTERACTIVE STORY. It's about enjoying yourself with others. We started ignoring that when we focused on our prestige characters. Now all we seem to do is argue over stuff that seems to be related in that IT'S ABOUT PRESTIGE. "Who's stronger? Why should Prestige get more benefits in fights? How should the new system go? I want a prestige system that works! I want a prestige system at all!" Can't you see that it's all the same problem? We were introduced something that needed to be fixed, and because it was a reward in a way, we're less inclined to be happy with the way things WERE even when we were happy that way.

Number 2: Respect.

Oh my LORD, respect. We've lost an awful lot of it, haven't we? When you walk into a thread and automatically assume that someone's being disrespectful in a debate, even when they're not, you have to admit there's something inherently wrong with the way the server's gone. In my time on CotH, I've seen virtual pissing contests, I've seen Public ERPers rage over being instructed of the rules, I've been disrespected, I've disrespected others, but it's ALL coming to a head, lately, isn't it?

Let's make a few statements on what I've seen in the past:

Jokes about suicide aren't funny. They never have been and never will be. They're terrible, and chances are, someone in your conversation is not affected well by them.

Discriminatory jokes (on any basis) are hurtful and offensive. We have rules on these two previously mentioned things, but I feel the need to reiterate them, because I've seen a few recently (at least when I was still on the server.)

When you're asked to move from barrens into adult, don't argue about why.

Don't get angry over simple things. Smile it off.

If something someone said offends you, kindly let the other person know.

If someone has a different opinion from yours, you do not have the right to bash them.

If someone has a different opinion from yours and they voice it, do not automatically assume that they are bashing you.

If you've had a bad day and you need to vent - tell a friend. Don't blow up on someone. (I've had to do it.)

There's no need to be overly sensitive about things, but trust me, we all get that way from time to time. I'm willing to understand if you make a mistake or two, but if it's a recurring action, I will find it harder and harder to understand. We all need to be a little more tolerant, but then, there are just some things that should never slide.


Number 3: Plans and GMs.

I've seen these arguments before. A person posts up their entire plan of action for a MAJOR event, or a MAJOR anything, and all of the players around them begin to pine over it. The only thing is, this person didn't submit it to the GMs for approval, and if they had, the GMs are still talking it over. When it comes to the time that the GMs have finally finished their verdict on the event/anything, they're going to be crucified by the public because the opinion they now need to speak against has been seen by everyone. Trust me, I've been one of those GMs, and it's not right at all.

When you get someone's hopes up about something, and there's another person who has to pull the plug on that something, you're making it needlessly difficult to do that. You're not helping anyone, because it's going to be denied at any rate, in this specific case, and having more people back your opinions up is not going to prevent that. All you really did was cause people to rally up against the inevitable and cause major stress for both sides of the argument.

What you should have done is spoken it over with the GMs, because some ideas, while awesome to those who hear them, are nigh-impossible to implement correctly (I'm the king of those ideas.) If you speak to the GMs separately, they can help you with these ideas without getting anyone's hopes up for the impossible. Trust me, as a former GM, they're not there to step on your head as you try to come up with ideas. They're not going to automatically deny EVERYTHING. They're there to help you and the server get the most out of your ideas.


Number 4: This Is Only A Game.

Let me reiterate that: CotH is only a game. A game with a community, but still a game nonetheless. When I see people arguing over who is stronger in a community that values RP in general, it really hurts. We've gotten so wrapped up in who can defeat whom, and these huge inter-player struggles, that we've lost track of the fact that this is a game! People are getting angry over this - a form of escapism - and arguing over pixels on a screen. People are deliberately going out and, for their own amusement, fighting and potentially killing other players as much as possible (much to the other player's lack of amusement.)

You can argue against that all that you want, but really think about it. We're getting so worked up over half of this stuff that we don't realize that we can stand up, take a deep, calming breath and walk away. Please, don't accuse me of not understanding that some people really need CotH to escape from reality, and that they can't necessarily walk away for some reason or another. The last two years of my OWN life were spent that way. I had literally nothing to do but get on here and feebly try to RP. I would get worked up over the simplest of things, I would argue, I would rage. But still, I would get on the next day, hoping that everything would get better.

It didn't. It never did. CotH brought me to the brink of rage and back damn near every day - It was hardly a form of escapism because of all of this stupid, inane crap that keeps on happening to us. So I left. And I went through a cycle of leaving and returning until I got dragged back by a close friend, but I eventually left for the last time. I have nothing against CotH. I loved the server and the community, once.

Loved. Some of my best friends, I found here.

But now, half of you guys have gone much too far off the deep-end. Too caught up in your little squabbles and vying for e-supremacy in some form or another that you don't realize that you're not having fun anymore. It ruined my enjoyment of the server, and I'm not the only one.

I eventually realized how bad it all was for me, and I left for good - I'm the happiest I've been in a long time. I sincerely hope those of you who are discontent find the same for yourselves.



Much love,
Esthrunil

<3

I loves me some Esthrunub.


That being said. *Ahem*

It saddens me how many of our servers vets have had to address these sort of issues before. Respect in particular.

I really couldn't agree more with your assessment of the prestige system, personally.

Cressy Wrote:<3

Not just emptyquoting here

Esthrunil Wrote:Number 4: This Is Only A Game.

This is the sum of most of my thoughts. I am quite tired of getting on to see people ready to slit throats over some minute topic related to a FAKE universe. Now, I love my WoW. I love RPing. But I have gotten way over the urge to bash someone mercilessly over it. I've seen people blatantly disrespected and mocked. It's disgusting. Every last person is guilty of it, me included. Regardless of such, it is time to stop. You all are ruining what used to be a wonderful community. It's been happening for a while though. I saw it go downhill not long after I joined and no one is helping it.

It's stopped being a community. Now it's cliques of people who only RP with each other and bash new people who aren't as practiced yet. The only place you can go to get any varied RP is Booty Bay. But instead of fixing it, everyone just complains, sits on GMI, or goes off with their own clique. I remember being able to go all sorts of places and join in on an RP. It's a lot different now and it's sad.

But I suppose there's not much we can do to help. You have those who lick the boots of the GMs because they are GMs. They're not even right all of the time. They are human and just sucking up to them does not help. Then you have those against anything a GM does because they disagree. Now, I in NO way say GMs are right 100% of the time. I have seen a lot against that. But the losing your mind over it will not help. It just makes you look like a dick before getting kicked or whatever it is they do.

The whole thing I feel I need to say is, just keep an open mind. People play this to have fun and enjoy themselves. They want to do something that they find entertaining. Players might get something wrong or make a mistake. That never gives you the right to bring them down. Stop being so damn hostile. Stop ARGUING and start DISCUSSING. There is a difference. Learn it.

Oh, and a million props to Esthrunil. Thank you for this.

The more rules there are, the less freedom you have. The less freedom you have, the less you're relaxed about it. The less you're relaxed, the less fun you can have.

That's my opinion atleast ^^

I'm not trying to say "loosen the rules", I'm just pointing out the logical.

Agree with most points. But I will say, not naming names, that the CotH "veterans" Can sometimes be just as bad as those awful new players we love to compain about. Its veryy easy to pass blame off on them as they are new, and we are yet to know them personally, but in doing so, we only damage the community for ourselves and potentially scare away potentially good members. Just because you have been here a long time, does not make you better, or immediately right. Were all wrong from time to time, and there will always be differences in opinions. That does not make people bad roleplayers.

If someone role-plays in a different way to you, perhaps more casually, perhaps more strictly, it doesn't mean they are doing it wrong, and it doesn't give you the right to tell them to go away. As long as they adhere to the basic rules of respect, and of the server. Were all here to have fun, and there is no fun in constantly being told off, or told to change how we have fun to better suit someone else.

*deep cleansing breath*

I wholeheartedly agree with Esthrunil. The prestige system isn't as big a deal as it's been made out to be and, quite honestly, it isn't a necessary part of the server. Were it up to me, I would just as soon nix the prestige system entirely than try to find some way to satisfy everyone by coming up with something else that's going to be just as flawed as the previous versions. For all the trouble it's caused.

Esthrunil Wrote:Imagine doing something you enjoy, like solving a puzzle, for example. Now imagine that you're told that for every puzzle you complete, you'll receive a piece of cake (or another coveted object.) After two puzzles in two days, though, they inform you that they've run out of cake, and you won't be receiving any for the rest of the puzzles you complete. How would you feel? I'd feel a little ripped off, wouldn't you?

WHAT IS WITH YOU AND ALLUSIONS TO PORTAL?

You seem to be focusing on the bad.

Yes, we've made mistakes. Yes, we've done wrong things.

But ultimately, this is like watching the news lately. We dwell on everything wrong with the server, whilst the good things are tucked away.

EDIT: Mind you, I still like this post. I'm not knocking anything written here. It's simply an observation.

I personally think prestiges aren't ALL about the power, and the "i'm better than you" scenario.

For example, when brainstorming on a prestige storyline for one of my characters, I discovered that I had been inadvertently doing something with him that I never noticed. It was a cool discovery, because then the whole thing was made more human, and HE was made more human, more real. And that's ironic because the prestige is Savagekin.

Please don't derail this to another ceaseless prestige discussion, though. I just agree with everything else and only differ with the prestige thing. D:

Quote:Honestly, we've become so wrapped up in who has the most, "character development" and power because of their character's development, that we lost track of the fact that this place is for fun. It's not about who can beat who. It's not about who rose to the top the fastest.

/Agree

I'm surprised at the number of threads I've seen about this, but nothings seems to change. Whether it's prestige, respect or something else entirely. People throw out good points, people get something off their chest that can improve the server, but players don't take it to heart it seems.

Quote:It didn't. It never did. CotH brought me to the brink of rage and back damn near every day - It was hardly a form of escapism because of all of this stupid, inane crap that keeps on happening to us. So I left. And I went through a cycle of leaving and returning until I got dragged back by a close friend, but I eventually left for the last time. I have nothing against CotH. I loved the server and the community, once.

^ True words.

Not sure what to add to this conversation, haven't really been here for a insane amount of time but recall this is the.. third, if not fourth thread I've seen regarding these points at least. It's just a game. No need to bash people over them having 7 night elves, no need to complain that there's too many humans RPing evil, or that there's too little of this and that around. People play what they like to play, and while it may often seem like your alone, I doubt you really are. Complaining about it won't change it at all, and just gets on people nerves, who then get on other peoples nerves and so gradually, the whole server is on each others nerves! (Exaggeration, but I'm sure I made a point clear here). I'm not saying you should like it, I'm just saying to let those people be and stick true to yourself. If they want to play like that, let them. You don't have to.

I got my own opinions about many things, but they are mine and I don't try to force them on anyone. Nor should anyone else. I think other people should tell that to themselves as well. "It's fine if I dislike someone/something, but there's no need to be disrespectful about it."

Then again, with this I hope I have not derailed too much of the thread. I agree with most, if not all said in here and will keep it in my mind. ^.~

Honestly, Xigo, it's not that I'm ignoring the good.

It's that I can't find it, anymore. There -was- good, no doubt about it. But now, the only thing that really tethered me to CotH is now in my MSN friends list.

I listed problems that should be rectified and how to go about it.

Nothing good about CotH? Huh.


I've met some damn good people on this server. Hell, I view most of, if not all of the people on this server to be respectable people. I might quarrel with them from time to time. I might b***h and moan. But ultimately, I still view most people as friends, despite an argument.

Perhaps that is just me, and has nothing to do with the server. Or perhaps it is a testament to the community of CotH.

Look at this thread. Look at Rensin's thread. There are people who -want things to change-. And yet no one has made a post concerning how we can change it.

All the posts have been are people saying 'I'm leaving and this is why, CotH used to be good'.

It's still bloody good. It's just we're going through a sort of dramatic period here. Which, frankly, is humorous. Because from what I have observed, drama tends to spark from between two groups, and then everyone takes sides. No. This drama is spread across the entire community.

Look at the 'thanks' you got for your post. Is that not a testament to the people here? Is that not a testament for us to stay together? To right what is wrong? Ultimately, the one wrong all this stems from will probably not change, but only because it's human nature.

Crticism.

It's us all being critical to one another's RP styles that is where this issue really stems from. If someone posts something, people don't go 'hey, there's this thing in the lore concerning that you might want to check out'. No. It's 'YOU'RE WRONG AND THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD DO!'. I -know- I've been guilty of that. And I fully intend on changing it. I've unfortunately insulted the imagination of others, something I regret. And it's something I don't intend on doing again.

Perhaps we should simply all be more polite when we talk about others, or maybe even when we criticize the characters of others. If you're going to tell someone that they're wrong, then hey, do it respectfully. Don't turn it into an argument. Just... be nice. I'm sure you wouldn't like someone raining down on you with a flurry of 'YOU CAN'T DO THIS STOP DOING THIS YOU ARE WRONG'. That's an exaggeration, mind you. But sometimes it feels like that. Even if people aren't saying it outright.

We have to trust one another better. We have to think others know what they are doing. I might have issues with what you do, but unless I -really- want it to change, I will never voice it to you. Perhaps I'll bring up a tidbit about how (sorry to those of you who are, but it's a subject) evil Draenei might be unlikely. But hell. Ultimately, I won't outright go 'YOU CANNOT BE AN EVIL DRAENEI'. I'll mention it. And I'll let you decide. Because it's your character, not mine.

We're a community. We need to help eachother out. Through hardships. And through improving our RP. And -that- most certainly does -not- need to involve going 'nyah nyah nyah'.

We've talked about what's wrong about things.

Maybe we should instead be talking about what we should do to change it.

Please. Let's not just throw things in the trash because things look grim. I ask you. Let's try to improve.

Xigo. Let me just say one or two things, here:

I'm giving people ways to fix the problems I posted. I'm not just complaining.

I did not, in all honesty, leave just because CotH is bad. I left for VERY personal reasons. I don't believe I should stick around.

And to be honest, I'm not putting effort into changing something when I don't care for it any longer. It's not my responsibility, and I said that. It's the responsibility of those who'd like to stick around.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't criticize me or my reasons for leaving.

Very well. Then we who stick around will change things.

I am sorry if that post came off as offensive. That was not the intention.