Grakor, your image of a Katana is flawed, sure it wont stab and get through the knights armor but one good slash from a trained user could cleave him in half.
So a trained user in warcraft of the Katana is like Woo Ping from Stormwind, he is a weapon trainer and he uses a Katana.
But if you wanted to see the best, find Orcish Blademasters and Pandaren Swordsmen.
And fencing is in combat when declared duals by professional fighters, then it can be to the death if need be.
While katanas, when used properly (like any weapon), can inflict much hurt- you're probably not going to slice anyone in half with a katana- it's one of those weapons that have been horribly over-exaggerated over the years by movies and anime- it's a positive sign if your katana can even cut through a watermelon, much less a whole human body with the bone and natural suction.
My sources? I used to do a lot of stuff involving combat- not always with weapons but combat.
Also, in plate? Plate is like, sheet metal. You'd have to have, like, a katana with either a really sharp metal made with a really, really strong alloy, or have it be diamond plated...and even then you'd have to have the muscles of an elephant to cut through it.
Oh, of course that too, to cut even a naked person in half with a sword (if they're built) you'd need serious strength in the shoulders and arms and a sword that's weighted in the blade and very sharp, katanas are made to be light, quick, and to get a few cuts in and get back. If you use a katana to block, chances are you're breaking or damaging it nearly immediately, even with another katana (they're purely cutting weapons, not necessarily sparring weapons) so if you want to RP actual combat with a katana and take a few hits, have an off-hand shield or blocking weapon.
Heck, swords in general have been exaggerated. People commonly think sword = sharp. Daggers should be sharp, but swords? They rely on pressure, be it piercing or a blunt blow from a narrow weapon.
So, if your character is up against someone with "a freshly sharped sword" grin.
Ah, yes. I forget that swords are designed to be more of a thin wedge than a, well, knife.
Of course, we're talking about this for use with our characters... who are significantly stronger and most likely more knowledgeable (In Character) than any of us would ever be with a blade or weapon of their choice.
While I'm sure we won't be cutting anyone in half in plate armor (Who knows? Those Orcs are more muscular than any human ever will be.), We'll still have to take in the fantasy portion of this. The weapons are realistic, but the characters aren't.
Agree within reason. It's more fun, personally, if we RP using standard conventions of humanity- it keeps people from pulling stuff out their bums later on. "Well, Draenei probably would be able to swing better than a Troll." And so on.
We gauge our characters how we do, and no attempts to cut people in half.
I'm sure most of us in this thread who bothered to view it are capable of agreeing with each other on such. And if not, well... A third opinion is always available. I don't think anyone is going to nitpick about small physique issues like you listed... Normal human conventions for muscle structure seems accurate enough. Plus, we want to have fun.
I just meant overall obvious physique match-ups... an Orc is obviously naturally stronger than any human who isn't endowed by arcane or otherwise unnatural means. (Firewater)
Man, this is an awesome thread!! And thank you, so much, for the whole "Swords are NOT made to cut people in half" comments! I'm a medieval reenactor and the number of people who have this crazy idea that because the swords we use for public displays are blunted means they aren't dangerous... *shakes head*
You waste time explaining to them "If you were wearing armour - chain or scale (plate didn't come in until the 14th, and my group does 12th century England) and I were wielding a sword, I wouldn't bother cutting you in half, I'd just bash into you with my sword until things broke - ribs, organs, fun things like that - and you went down due to internal injuries. Just because it works in the movies, does not mean it's accurate..."
Their reply: "But the sword is blunt. How can it do any damage?" (after I've explained the above).
My answer: "Baseball bats are also blunt..."
Also, my understanding of Katanas is that, due to the poor quality of metal in Japan at the time, they would get thin sheets of beaten metal and fold them until they had the ideal blade shape, then pound it. Also, lack of readily available fuel for fires (Japan is more mountain than forest, so wood was a fairly scarce commodity) means that blacksmithing would have been a fairly minimalist art. Katanas weren't made of the same kind of good, tempered metals European weapon were made of, so they were used differently.
I do too sir and from my personal training, Kenpo, or the Japanese Martial Combat Martial Art. The Katana is stated in many combat forms against a human target to cleave in half your enemy, mind with is with maximum of like leather to bamboo armor. The Real Katana is forged over an lengthened period of time making it the sharpest blade ever devised by any mind. The forging style gives you Damascus Steel, which breaks diamond drill bits and lasers can hardly scratch. Trust me on this, my dad had his wedding rings for him and my step mother carved from Damascus, it was extremely costly. Damascus steel is also lighter weight than normal steel and for all intensive purposes, is damn near bullet proof.
I'm pretty sure you got some facts confused, or you are trying to apply them to a setting where they don't quite work.
1. Damascus Steel wasn't used until around 1100 AD, which is roughly the same time guns were starting to be invented and used. In other words, by the time it rolled around, plate armor was already losing its value anyway and warfare was changing.
2. Damascus was primarily used in the Middle East, not in the Far East regions like Japan (not that it didn't happen, but you aren't going to encounter that many true Katanas made with that particular production technique and material. Similarly, you're likely to also find some more traditional European weapons with the same techniques used.)
3. Damascus is now, for lack of a better term, extinct. There are techniques that replicate it, but it requires a specific metal to function (it was the material and not the technique that made it what it was.)
4. If you want to apply this to the setting, keep in mind that there are no differences in material. In Azeroth, any metal that can be made into a weapon can also be made into armor.
5. That noted, all materials equal, the katana is still inferior when used against someone in plate. Naturally, things may vary if someone has a weapon of much higher quality, but not often.
The katana was designed to combat someone with light to no armor, while the European swords were designed to fight heavily armored opponents. Those facts still remain.
Before forging the blades, the swordsmiths underwent fasting and ritual purification. They then worked at their anvils in white clothes, like the robes of the priests. There efforts were well rewarded; as early as the 13th Century, Japanese swords were recognized as far superior than any made elsewhere in the world. Not until the development of modern scientific metallurgy in the 19th century, could steel be made that would challenge the quality of that made by these Japanese swordsmith 600 years earlier.
To produce their superlative blades, Japanese artisans had to overcome a problem that had baffled all armorers throughout the world since the earliest time of recorded history. Sword makers could make steel very hard so that it would hold a sharp edge. However, making steel very hard also made it very brittle and often in battle a sword would be broken if hit just right against another sword or object. The sword makers knew how to make soft steel that would be less brittle and would not break in battle. However soft steel would not hold a sharp edge and it would quickly dull in battle and would not be able to cut through armor or hack of limbs and heads as a good sword was expected to do.
One way the Japanese sword makers solved the problem was to hammer together layers of steel of varying hardness welding them into a metal sandwich. This sandwich of metal layers was then reheated, folded back on itself and hammered out thin again. After this had been repeated about a dozen times, the steel consisted of thousands of paper-thin laminations of hard and soft metal. When it was ground to a sharp edge the hard metal stood out and resisted dulling, while the soft steel kept the sword from breaking.
So, that is the way Japanese steel blades were forged, and the forging style is called Damascus steel, or forging with layers of metal. This is how real Katana were forged, and the only race that really makes real Katana are the Panderan.
I suggest citing sources, because everything I have read is declaring you wrong.
While not always 100% reliable, the wikipedia entries for Katana Forging and Japanese Swords says nothing about Damascus steel in their entries, and Damascus Steel itself refers to it being a Middle-East and European practice (the links in particular confirm that.)
Now, sword-making WAS considered a holy/magical process to many, but that was also thought in Europe as well. The rest I really don't need to get into, but again, everything I've read is saying you're wrong. (The entry on Katana itself states that the sword had numerous flaws.)
Fun fact, katanas were first used by Chinese coast guards. They were so damn long your buddy had to carry yours, and you his. When entering combat, you'd grab the one at your bud's waist and run back, then go to town. First time the Japanese started using 'em was when coast raiders picked up a broken blade. They modified it for close combat, and it ultimately became the katana everybody globs over today.
But dude. Just gimme a crow bar and a curb and I'm happy.