I hate making threads like this. At times, it feels like the stirring of unnecessary drama, at others it feels like raising a spectre. Whenever I have to make a public thread regarding the banning of a particular player, it usually comes as a result of two possibilities: if the ban was a GM, or the banned player is continuing to make a nuisance of himself even after the ban by spreading lies and conspiracy theories. This is obviously the latter.
Let me make a few things perfectly clear regarding Enchantra's ban: after Enchantra's 3-day suspension, Reigen had nothing to do with Enchantra's ban. He was told this. Krilari had absolutely nothing to do with Enchantra's ban. Enchantra's ban occurred as a result of a transgression against a different player, as seen by a different GM. In our notes on him, we have either logs or complaints of Enchantra sexually harassing or stalking at least five other players. Obviously I can not, and will not, name names for their privacy and security, but you have my word that this banning was not the result of one player's vendetta.
Now, let's get something else out of the way...the question of whether this ban was the right thing to do in the case of someone whose behavior might be corrected by firm refusals. Let me explain my reasoning (as I was the one that ultimately decided on the ban) so that others can either agree or disagree:
One, I have seen logs of the behavior in question. I've seen people act extremely uncomfortable before his advances and made it clear to all but the most dense that the advances were not wanted.
Two, it is not my place to judge the victims of sexual harassment. While I can ask questions such as "Why did she not block him by now?" I ultimately can't be in their heads and decide why they continued to let it happen for as long as they did. Their actions do not change what was done to them.
Three, even if one person telling him to stop works for that person, his track record shows that he'd simply move on to someone else. This creates an undesired element, something I don't think should be on our server. In my mind, it was absolutely the right thing to do to ban him.
"Things are not always what they seem" is a sword that cuts both ways. If you have not seen what the victims have seen, and if you have not been a personal victim of such attentions, you can't make the claim on whether it was just or unjust. I have seen what he's done. Can you say the same?
Interesting perspective to see it from the point of view of a moderator as you often do not see it in a lot of places. Because Admins do not answer to anybody, they can take whatever liberties they want in how they run a server as it is, essentially, their server.
What I posted above is what I've seen on most servers, a lot of secrecy and a lot of stifling of information regarding things like this. So it warms my heart to see the Admins making their point of view and policies known to the public. Now I know there will be mixed feeling's about this but I find it good to have such an open staff
This post is going to be hard for me seeing as how this is the second time today I need to apologize to a large group of people, a few ones in particular.
Enchantra has a habit of making a lot of dirty jokes and I do understand that it might come of as sexual advancement at times, but they're really not. TBH, I always knew he'd be banned sooner or later, but for those jokes and not harassment/stalking and that's what lit my fuse.
As for that, the reason we believed otherwise for his ban was pretty much because there was no explanation as to -why- it happened. Like I said in my first, way to ragey thread, the e-mail he got explained nothing and just felt like a template mail. Assumptions were drawn and rage fed which led to this.
Which leads me to you, Reigen. I'm sorry. Truly. In the midst of my rage and drawn conclusions, I failed to follow something I myself mentioned, seeing both sides, and for that, I, Robin [lastname not included for privacy reasons], sincerely apologize. I was wrong. End of story.
Lastly, thank you for shedding some light on this matter, Grakor. When I tell him why, he'll most likely drop it immediately when getting some closure. Perhaps this should be taken as a lesson for the future though and be more informative when banning somebody to avoid this happening again.
And again, I apologize to everyone and hope that at least some of you don't judge me too much from this whole thing.
Cheers.
Right. I'd just like to point out things that I saw wrong, with both sides of the conflict. I may be too late, but, in my opinion, it still needs to be side.
GM team: Well, there's one problem I see on your side. I don't exactly know how you send Suspension PMs, but I don't exactly see how Enchantra figured out who even reported him/her, or why he/she needed to know. From my perspective, that will just lead to drama and/or what happened in this case, the reportee getting chased down.
However, if you feel it necessary to tell the player who did it, then don't let the players friends know. And don't let the player tell their friends, because then that gives them a mob-mentality, and when that happens, bad things happen. A player gets banned, a player quits, a GM quits. Any of those are bad for the playerbase's moral.
Roxas: Even if Enchantra did tell you what happened, that doesn't mean you have to get involved. Sure, you can fight his case, but for the sake of everything whatever, don't go chasing down the person, especially when it's 3 v 1. That just scares the average person, and when people are scared, or angry, they do stupid things.
In all people, really. Communication, people. I had to go through this same mob-mentality thing at the beginning of the School Year -- The same thing should not be happening to me here. I point you all to
this thread, even though I'm pretty sure it takes some jabs at me.
(05-28-2011, 04:31 PM)FlyingSquirrel Wrote: [ -> ]GM team: Well, there's one problem I see on your side. I don't exactly know how you send Suspension PMs, but I don't exactly see how Enchantra figured out who even reported him/her, or why he/she needed to know. From my perspective, that will just lead to drama and/or what happened in this case, the reportee getting chased down.
However, if you feel it necessary to tell the player who did it, then don't let the players friends know. And don't let the player tell their friends, because then that gives them a mob-mentality, and when that happens, bad things happen. A player gets banned, a player quits, a GM quits. Any of those are bad for the playerbase's moral.
No GM told Enchantra who reported him. We don't ever tell someone who reported him or her. I imagine that he simply targeted Reigen due to their personal interactions at the time.
As Grak said, we have never disclosed the offended player which led to the ban. Precisely -because- of the 'mob mentality' issue which would likely arise (and has, as we have seen.
Regarding how Enchantra singled out Reigen, see Grak's post as well.
I will make note, by the way; In no way are those offended to blame. If they are to blame for anything, then it is for not acting sooner and possibly preventing this stuff to get out of hand. As mentioned there were multiple people who had an issue with the treatment, and it doesn't take a genius to understand why they didn't act upon anything at first.
Simply put, it's hard to talk to something or someone about something like this. If someone is being rude to you, yeah, that's easy- but regarding someone being overly friendly; is your awkward feeling irrational? His friends seem fine with him. Is the way he's joking with you acceptable? Would it be wrong to report someone for being friendly, even if the mannerisms cause you discomfort? Would his friends (some of them perhaps your friends) turn on you because of your actions?
There are multiple reasons why people do not report incidents like these, both over the net and IRL. In no case should those who are affected be chastised, especially if you personally have not felt this sort of treatment. "Things are not always what they seem" is a sword that cuts both ways, as Grakor said, and it is especially true here- Do not make any assumption of what one person feels simply because you have not felt it.
...So yeah.
I hate coming to a thread made by an administrator and with so many colorfull names replying, but I just honestly think this thread should've been locked ages ago. The purpose has been sated - The banishment, explained. Nothing else needs to be added.
In all my time on CotH( even though I'm not around anymore ) I don't believe I've ever seen a GM or Admin post a thread that explained someone's banning in such detail( correct me if i'm wrong ). I'm sure you dealt with it properly but I think it's a little sad that you even had to make this thread. There was once a time here on CotH when you wouldn't have to worry about making a thread like this because drama + rumor mongering are clearly against the rules and the people who continually broke those rules would have been given the boot alongside the person this whole situation revolves around.
Sorry, I just felt like ranting.
(05-28-2011, 05:45 PM)Kaelvan Wrote: [ -> ]There was once a time here on CotH when you wouldn't have to worry about making a thread like this because drama + rumor mongering are clearly against the rules and the people who continually broke those rules would have been given the boot alongside the person this whole situation revolves around.
Rumour mongering and (or especially) drama have always been a large problem on CotH, and every other server I've ever been to. I'd even say it's a problem in pretty much every community, some people mange to stay out of it and won't notice unless something very public happens while others are among the first to hear. I often feel like I'm the last guy to know when something's gone wrong and whenever a shitstorm occurs I'm equally surprised. Anyway, my point is that CotH has never been free of drama or people gossiping, it never will be. This isn't the first time Grakor explains the events behind something that could easily lead to even more rumours and drama either, I doubt it's the last time.
It's important to remember that you're only as involved as you want to be, nothing ever stops you from pulling out or stopping and stating that you don't want to be part of it anymore, whether that means leaving the server or simply putting someone on ignore.
(05-28-2011, 05:45 PM)Kaelvan Wrote: [ -> ]In all my time on CotH( even though I'm not around anymore ) I don't believe I've ever seen a GM or Admin post a thread that explained someone's banning in such detail( correct me if i'm wrong ). I'm sure you dealt with it properly but I think it's a little sad that you even had to make this thread. There was once a time here on CotH when you wouldn't have to worry about making a thread like this because drama + rumor mongering are clearly against the rules and the people who continually broke those rules would have been given the boot alongside the person this whole situation revolves around.
Sorry, I just felt like ranting.
Well I think this was posted for a good reason; despite the banning people still felt the need to approach who they thought got Enchantra banned and stir up more drama. It's quite obvious that the victims were being blamed and I think the administration wanted to point out 1: it wasn't just Reigen, and 2: we shouldn't be victim-blaming here.
As far as Enchantra goes... I wouldn't call what he had done just "dirty jokes." I know what Roxas said happened a few days ago, but please, give us some credit. I think we know the difference between a joke and harassment/stalking.
(05-28-2011, 05:37 PM)Uthaniel Wrote: [ -> ]I hate coming to a thread made by an administrator and with so many colorfull names replying, but I just honestly think this thread should've been locked ages ago. The purpose has been sated - The banishment, explained. Nothing else needs to be added.
That... :dodgy:
Nostra Wrote:I often feel like I'm the last guy to know when something's gone wrong and whenever a shitstorm occurs I'm equally surprised.
Not alone here. I didn't even know this Enchantra guy. First time I heard him was on Roxas' rage thread.
(05-28-2011, 05:37 PM)Uthaniel Wrote: [ -> ]I hate coming to a thread made by an administrator and with so many colorfull names replying, but I just honestly think this thread should've been locked ages ago. The purpose has been sated - The banishment, explained. Nothing else needs to be added.
I do agree!