I think people are over reacting just a tad.
Is this something GM's should be doing already? Hell yes, without question.
But they're busy, have lives, don't want to do it, nobody asks them, they aren't available there are numerous reasons why GM's don't lead storylines. Some don't like certain GM's and stay away from their events.
Puppeting lore chars is ridiculously out of question. Why would a quest giver need to puppet a lore char? This is for hunting anonymous bounties, boat events, and other miscellaneous action/progressive RP. I'm -sure- if a storyline piqued where lore chars were involved ( which they don't want us to mess with, the reason of this restart ) The GM's would be extremely involved, to the point of these quest givers just following orders. Yes people manipulate power, and every time there is an opportunity to move forward there are several to move back but come on man/lady this isn't the worst idea that's happened. I hate logging and seeing a majority of the server on GMI because they're waiting on one person who may not log that day, just got online for the $%@% of it or this is how they talk to their friends. Some people actually like this server for what it is supposed to represent. RP period. All day, every day, and consistent. I hate seeing people and being the person asking for RP on LFG and a group of people in a certain zone have RP thats joinable but never respond.
With this position hopefully people will spark RP with those who just want to RP for a few moments before work/schoo/ or other things IRL. No one wants to want on GMI because some people just don't have anything to do in life but sit on the computer aaaaalllllllll day. Been there. It's real old. No offense but come on. Its not about helping GM's its about helping the server. Last year this wasn't a problem. The problem was the RP was only in Booty bay and Ratchet. -But- there was RP the OOC activity is huge and killing what the server was IMO.
Yeah, I am pretty sure no one will be puppeting lore characters. When I talked to Kretol and Grakor about this position a month ago or so, it was over the fact that...Well, sometimes it is nice to not have to pretend that there are mobs, or even nice not having to beg GMs to help out.
And as a sidenote, if Grak and Kret were to implement this, I hope they'd give the players a separate account with only -one- character slot so that they powers wouldn't be abused while they were RPing.
/shrug. Off to bed, continue your discussions.
I'd like to ask that everyone keep the discussion polite and respectful.
... well damn, guess my plan of having Vol'jin become Warchief isn't going to fly.
Anyway. The only person I've ever seen ask me for help with a storyline recently was... well, Cressy! And we never did get around to hosting it due to RL problems on Cressy's part (I think we still have those objects and NPCs in phase 2...). I've helped players do little events quite a few times. But I don't think the reason the GMs aren't seen helping with events is because they're avoiding doing so. In my time, I can't remember the last time I saw a GM helping with an event. I believe there's a few reasons.
1) Players are too scared for help. Probably under the assumption their ideas will be stamped with a big no on their forehead.
2) Players aren't making storylines that specifically need GM assistance.
3) Players aren't asking for the GM's help, and this is instead being thought of as "the GMs are ignoring them".
4) GMs are busy. But this horse has been beaten enough, so no need to explain that.
I'm personally thinking it's reason 1. The people I've assisted in events for are people I knew for quite some time, so they could easily approach me. And if you claim favouritism I will stab you so hard. It isn't favouritism - they just asked for help.
But as per the original idea... I dunno. I'd rather this be with GMs, seeing as it's what their job entails. The forum workload is divided, which I might add was for the sole reason that GMs have more time to do content work. If we give this rank for players then... well heck, what's left?
(09-06-2011, 03:33 AM)Hawk Wrote: [ -> ]1) Players are too scared for help. Probably under the assumption their ideas will be stamped with a big no on their forehead.
2) Players aren't making storylines that specifically need GM assistance
This. This. This! This is probably the most reason by far. If you had an anonymous vote on the top 5 reasons people don't ask GMs for help, this would win. Personally, this is why the only GMs I ask for stuff are Nexi and Bubbles when I see him. Not to put any of the GMs down or make them think they're not doing their jobs, but quite honestly, you lot
terrify me. "I just know if I approach the right GM with the wrong question I'll get a, 'you're kidding right?' look and then be evershamed." is the usual mindset when people don't ask for GM help. Well, I suppose #2 is a good one for me, too. I don't ever really
need GM help on a regular basis. Yeah, just stating stuff, I think the top two are the main reasons players don't ask GMs for stuff. From what it seems like on this server, most people know everyone's 2nd cousin and what they had for dinner the night before as a metaphor to use. I kinda feel like the odd one out, not knowing hardly anyone, much less even their Forum ID. /shrug, I've always been extremely nervous talking to someone with power I can't see face to face. Just me, but I think other people might, too.
I love what this could become.
I dread what this could bring.
To me, the simplest solution would be to expand the Content GM team. What I'm getting out of this is that players want more events. GMs find that players don't bother coming to them for event help. And perhaps there aren't enough players actively making events. (And whatever else opinions you have to add).
Also, whomever would obtain these 'Quest Giver' positions basically has to be super trusted not to abuse any powers and people are worried that they might... yatah yatah yatah. I don't know why expanding the current team of Content GMs would be a problem. It may fix things, or it may fix nothing. However, at the very least it won't cause the raging, whining and/or drama storm that will probably come from this. Everyone complains when its a 'player' with extra powers. No one complains that a GM has extra powers (though they may make mutters under their breath).
Perhaps the solution really is to get more Content GMs, OR, OR... make these Quest Givers subordinate under certain GMs. Kinda like Assistant GMs or something.
/totally tl;dr'd the rest of the thread.
As someone else pointed out and perhaps may have been debunked, I dunno - Wouldn't this essentially turn our current Content GM's into building GM's?
In which case...
We'd have GM-esque players designated for Storyline progression with no building capability, GM's who are basically used to Build areas, but can still do stuff for Storylines, and GM's who Enforce the rules as their primary job. Except this was exactly what we had before the current system, and it was dropped for a reason, from what I understand.
Or maybe I'm just saying things. I do that a lot.
I'd also like to bring to the table this food for thought:
Remember when we had the entire GM split into much more roles when Secrettom/Lucelia was here? We had builders, enforcers, NPC puppeteers, forum GMs, and some other category.
It didn't work out.
EDIT: Just noticed that's just what Esthrunil wrote. Derp. Well the point still stands. It was highly ineffective.
Oh yeah, we did have that didn't we?
Enforcer, Builder, Storytelling and Forum.
Right? I think so.
Want, want, want, want, want times a thousand and a half multiplied by two to the thirteenth powwaaaaaaaaaarrrrr.
I've always secretly fantasized about puppeting NPC's. Anyone who's role played with me for a long time knows I do this informally. I figure that, if my character is going to RP going up to the bar and asking for a drink, the bartender should reply back in part of the dialogue. Its always been a dream of mine. I'm not ashamed to admit it.
So, yeah, I'd apply for it. I know it could all go horribly wrong, but hey. Better to try it out and have it fail than not try it at all. People complain about the server being stale and OOC, but then don't do anything about it. This could be something that does something about it.
So I say, let'sa goooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
(09-06-2011, 12:45 PM)Cressy Wrote: [ -> ]Oh yeah, we did have that didn't we?
Enforcer, Builder, Storytelling and Forum.
Right? I think so.
Wouldn't this new idea just give all the powers in one? They'd be GMs in every way except rule-enforcement.
(09-06-2011, 01:42 PM)CappnRob Wrote: [ -> ] (09-06-2011, 12:45 PM)Cressy Wrote: [ -> ]Oh yeah, we did have that didn't we?
Enforcer, Builder, Storytelling and Forum.
Right? I think so.
Wouldn't this new idea just give all the powers in one? They'd be GMs in every way except rule-enforcement.
I was under the impression that these "Quest Givers" would only be doing NPC-esque stuff as in: spawning temporary NPCs and NPC puppeteering. And there's already technically a Forum GM, which are the Forum Helpers. So now we would have: Forum Helpers, Content GMs, Quest Givers, Enforcers, and of course the Admins. Which basically puts a GM for every slot Cressy listed.
The reason that isn't in place anymore is because it failed epicly. Just saying.
Well. And we had a smaller staff. /shrug.