Conquest of the Horde

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Original post is now spoilered to keep from offending those who object to noisome 'Lore'.

Spoiler:
This post is mainly an attempt to clarify an issue linked to druidic lore in Warcraft. Specifically it's my attempt to form an argument for the traditional ancient division of male and female in Night Elf society in a reasonable and non-confrontational manner. I would like to emphasise that this is in no way an attack on anyone's character – just an attempt to clarify some lore points, since there seems to be some confusion.

First of all; I will start with the emergence of druidism into night elf society. Cenarius encountered the night elves long before the sundering and “The demigod became fond of the night elves, and he spent a great deal of time teaching them about the natural world. Under his guidance, the night elves developed a strong empathy for the living forests of ancient Kalimdor and reveled in the harmonious balance of nature.” (Link) However promising this may sound, it was not the advent of druidism for their race. Shunning cenarius' teachings at this point, the elves were more drawn to the well of eternity, revelling in it's magical gifts. As widely known, this culminated in the sundering, dividing Azeroth into the continents we know today.

Also mentioned in the article above is the formation of the sentinels; and although it makes no mention of the male/female division as far as druids go, it at least bears the suggestion of a division spanning the entirety of their 'society':
“Tyrande Whisperwind, now high priestess of Elune, implemented sweeping changes throughout night elf society. She organized a new all-female army, the sentinels, and decreed that it would be directed by the Sisterhood of Elune.”

The only elven druid to emerge before the sundering was Malfurion Stormrage - first elven disciple of Cenarius (some say the first druid; though this is debated); and his training started before the War of the Ancients but finished after the Great Sundering - making him the only night elf who could possibly have learnt any druidic magic prior to the Great Sundering.

As stated here:
“A number of night elf men joined Malfurion in studying the druidic arts, many of them former members of the Moon Guard. Malfurion began teaching them, and he eventually established the Cenarion Circle, Azeroth's druidic organization.” This – seeing as the moon guard* truly and definitively was exclusively male – pretty much states that the only druids accepted to the circle immediately after the Great Sundering were male night elves. If nothing else, it certainly establishes that all night elf druids became members of the cenarion circle.

The Cenarion Circle lore itself further cements the fact of all night elf druids being male, explicitly stating “all druids in the Cenarion Circle were men, and almost all were night elves.” Although it goes on to say “Women druids and druids from other races are not necessarily a recent development, but until the war, such druids were relatively rare and often had no affiliation with the Cenarion Circle,” I would argue that any female druid who existed prior to the third war would have had to be of another race such as a tauren, taught by a liberal druid who had no affiliation with the cenarion circle themselves, since any night elf druids made up the cenarion circle: an explicitly male organisation until the end of the third war.

With the Night Elves' new ties to the alliance and in the wake of the third war which “resulted in so many casualties that the traditional gender roles of night elf society have been set aside in favor of more practical concerns,” (Link) both female night elf druids and male sentinels began to emerge. Although male priests also started to appear (in relatively miniscule numbers) I would still doubt they be considered the 'equals' of members of the 'Sisterhood of Elune' – which may even now remain exclusive to females.

Further reference to the traditional gender split is made on the night elf wowwiki page – but i'm certain any argument posed from that source would be picked apart by critics as not having adequate support.

* Link to the 'Moon Guard' for skeptics.
Further support for the ancient druid/priest division can be found on an archaeology item; archaeology being one of Blizzard's most recent attempts to properly address some of the issues with their lore, fleshing it out properly. Druid and Priest Statue Set

In short;
Female Night Elf Druids are rare. If you are going to play one, do consider being relatively new to the craft. While it isn't a neccessity, any character of this ilk that has more experience than around a decade will need to address specifically how they came into their powers.

Do note that I stress "Relatively". Something that people forget is that while elves can have lived for many thousands of years, nine years in itself is quite a long time. Certainly enough time to become an expert in an area (such as druidism), especially if they have some prior association with people who have incredible breadth of knowledge on it.

If you are set on having an older, more experienced druid of the female persuasion; there are a couple of paths to go down:

1a. The nature-lover who pretended to be a man.
There are stories throughout history of women dressing as men for one reason or another to overcome a chauvanistic prejudice. While Night Elf society would not permit a woman to become a druid, they may gladly have taught one that had hidden their gender.
Their tutor may even have known - but helped keep their apprentice's secret for fear of being blamed for admitting a woman into the brotherhood of druids - the Cenarion Circle.

1b. The 'rebel father who don't give a damn'.
Similar to 1a, this argument is oft-cited. The most stalwart defenders of experienced female druids often say; 'What father could deny their daughter anything?', and the same may well have been true for entry into druidism. A druidically-minded father may have passed on his knowledge and experience to their daughter, whether consciously or not - and though it would be unlikely that just by 'growing up with a druidic father' would allow a child enough exposure to the magic of nature that they could grow into a druid in their own right, it isn't outside the realm of possibility.

2. The humble elf and wise tauren.
If for some reason a young elven woman was determined to learn the ways of the druid - they might well have gone searching desperately for anyone willing to teach them. This would have led them, eventually, to the tauren roaming Kalimdor's midlands. If they could prove themselves to such a teacher, they could have been taught the art long before female druids were accepted by the Cenarion Circle, but it is unlikely they would have been welcome in night elf society afterwards.

While this list is by no means complete, these 'general backgrounds' seem relatively unobjectionable.
Prior to the Sundering, men favored the flavor of sorcerer rather than druid, yes?

Though of fringe relevance, I find this to be a tasty touch of trivia. ...Chances are, anyone this idle fancy would mean much to is already well aware, but...

I'm curious, and am unsure where I should be looking. Is there a meaningful demographic of "mundane" night elves confirmed in canon?

While the idea of a kal'dorei peasant seems silly to my imagination, I do wonder.
(11-16-2011, 10:09 AM)LostStranger Wrote: [ -> ]Prior to the Sundering, men favored the flavor of sorcerer rather than druid, yes?

Though of fringe relevance, I find this to be a tasty touch of trivia. ...Chances are, anyone this idle fancy would mean much to is already well aware, but...

I'm curious, and am unsure where I should be looking. Is there a meaningful demographic of "mundane" night elves confirmed in canon?

While the idea of a kal'dorei peasant seems silly to my imagination, I do wonder.

As far as i'm aware, there were quite a lot of 'mudane' Kal'dorei craftsmen - artisans and the like. After all; their 'trade district' in Darnassus is the 'Craftsman's terrace', not the 'Craftswoman's terrace'.

And yes, prior to the Sundering, most elves became sorcerors - hence the whole Moon Guard business. That's why Malfurion's acceptance of Cenarius' teachings before the War of the Ancients was so singular.
Honestly, I do not see why people have issues with the 'rare' female druids to have existed prior to nine years ago.

I mean, just throwing out an example. Teaching the dark-arts or knowing them isn't allowed, but people still managed to learn it even though there were laws against it. The same thing with druidism in females and more than likely the same with male Kal'dorei wielding light.

My point is there will always be rare cases, and obviously on this server we all are the rare cases. I mean, if we all were normal people, we wouldn't be fighting dragons, sea-monsters and demons or hanging out with opposite faction members. But we do.

/shrug.
...

I agree, but I would argue that any elf claiming to have experience in such matters would have to have been taught by tauren. Much like many warlocks learning the 'dark arts' have to go out and find a tainted tutor.

One of the original Kal'dorei, (who had superiority issues up the wazoo, incidentally) would have had serious issues submitting themselves to such tutelage. This would therefore be rare as you say, and they would be seen as holding their own race in contempt by going to learn from one of the Shu'halo. Although their craft itself might not be held as contemptible as the aforementioned dark arts, their method of attaining such would definitely be frowned upon.
I don't want to argue this, but!

(Lol. Of course I am going to finish that with a but...)

Who is to say that a male druid would not feel the need to share with his amber-eyed daughter? And then, she in turn taught another female? The idea isn't surprising.

(11-16-2011, 10:15 AM)Frogspawned Wrote: [ -> ]As far as i'm aware, there were quite a lot of 'mudane' Kal'dorei craftsmen - artisans and the like. After all; their 'trade district' in Darnassus is the 'Craftsman's terrace', not the 'Craftswoman's terrace'.

I... Regardless of gender, I meant, but...

(11-16-2011, 10:41 AM)Cressy Wrote: [ -> ]My point is there will always be rare cases, and obviously on this server we all are the rare cases. I mean, if we all were normal people, we wouldn't be fighting dragons, sea-monsters and demons or hanging out with opposite faction members. But we do.

My earlier question as to if there is such a thing as a blue-collar elf was meant to lead up to another point.

If not all kal'dorei are heroic champions, grace garbed in flesh and beacons of primal purity...

The purported gender division really applies specifically to the night elves' fighting class.

Still.

(11-16-2011, 10:41 AM)Cressy Wrote: [ -> ]Teaching the dark-arts or knowing them isn't allowed, but people still managed to learn it even though there were laws against it.

Forsaken are not the only race with warlocks. Draenei warriors and shaman exist.

There are no specific laws forbidding one from forsaking traditional gender roles, only cultural stigma.

Women are still, on the whole, paid less than men in the workplace.

Male nurses are still laughed at on the occasion. (Sorry Clovis.)

Et cetera, et cetera.
Eh. If someone has a good excuse for having a female druid, I don't think it's that big a deal.
(11-16-2011, 11:02 AM)LostStranger Wrote: [ -> ]There are no specific laws forbidding one from forsaking traditional gender roles, only cultural stigma.

Do you really envision kal'dorei society to be so brutally intolerant as to imprison or kill those that refuse the road more traveled?

Yes, they might not make it into the prestigious organizations of the Sisterhood, Sentinels, or Circle...

...But not every mage was taught in Dalaran. Not every human priest is of the Holy Light.

EDIT: I actually meant to double post, but I've idly elected to not delete this upon failing to do so.

Though I'm giving an enthused argument better described as effusive... I like the look of my own words.
The only thing I can think of to say is that, I agree with Xigo' post, however the important thing that people should keep in mind is that, if you are a Kal'dorei man and you see a female druid, the response would probably be different if it were a male druid. I would think that the men would either see them as less respectable or just a strange sight. I would also think that other races would find it just as odd.
(11-16-2011, 11:07 AM)LostStranger Wrote: [ -> ]
...But not every mage was taught in Dalaran. Not every human priest is of the Holy Light.

And not every roleplayer cares about lore. I know this.
No need to be like that. ;c
(11-16-2011, 11:03 AM)Xigo Wrote: [ -> ]Eh. If someone has a good excuse for having a female druid, I don't think it's that big a deal.
Most excuses are 'I want a pretty character', however.
Just my one cent.
We run by the policy of "if you can create it in the Character Creation screen, you can play it" (just like you can use pretty much everything in your OOC spell-book, ICly). This is what Blizzard gave us when they created the game, even if it doesn't necessarily co-relate with their own lore. Then again, we are painfully aware of the fact that Blizzard changes their own lore back and forth with pretty much every new addition to the game.

Since the female Druids are OOCly possible, the discussion of whether or not they are possible is pointless. Though, how they are possible is relevant. All we know is that it's not impossible.

Edited for grammatical failures.
(11-16-2011, 11:25 AM)Cressy Wrote: [ -> ]No need to be like that. ;c

I know. It's just frustrating that when I was arguing before, it was a question of; 'Produce evidence, then we'll listen to you.' But after trying my hardest to construct a reasonable, well thought out argument, it becomes a case of 'Oh, but lore doesn't really matter. We're the exceptions that prove the rule.'

As for being OOCly possible - of course female druids exist. I am not arguing that they shouldn't - as would be obvious if you had read my post. The fact seems to be, however, that a female night elf druid with thousands of years of experience should not be possible. They should all be relatively new to the craft.

This does not mean they can't be talented, as the two female night elf archdruid characters in game show.
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