Conquest of the Horde

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As some of you might probably know, I've recently made a witch doctor troll. I have been having this idea stuck in my mind -which I guess is pretty much logical- that witch doctors are high-regarded in troll community. To be able to roleplay past that, though, I have made Jozz a 'fon, otherwise known as a loner, having no political or monetary power. I would want to check if that is alright, so I may RP further, without a special profile?

Also, there is the problem about a witch doctor's spells and, overall, abilities. WoWPedia has very little information about those, it seems, but I have taken liberty of looking at Diablo III's Witch Doctor, and found many of those to be perfectly possible with a little changes. I shall color the perfectly possible ones in green, the unknown ones in yellow, and the impossible ones in red.
Here is a list of said abilities.

Spoiler:

I would like to let the zombie abilities for a little later. Thus, I will just jump over those, only to be explained after the list ends.

Poison dart - I see this very logical. Trolls have been known to use poison with their weapons, and darts are very easy to use. Plus, they are very tribal.
Plague of Toads - Due to a witch doctor's ability to control the minds of lesser beings, I see this logical as well. Controlling one, two, three, maybe four frogs, to come beside the witch doctor, who puts an infesting plague on their skin, and sends them towards the witch doctor's enemy. That okay?
Corpse spiders - Again, just like the toad ability, the witch doctor would control spider minds to attack a target. I would also like to point that it sounds only logical for the witch doctor's ability to control a lesser being's mind to be invers proportional with the size of this being. Thus, a horde of spiders would be way easier to control than a horde of toads.
Firebats - Alright, this may seem strange, thinking that they're bats on fire. I'd like to let this as sending bats to disrupt a spell or incapacitate the target, or simply stop it from attacking in any way, for a short time.
Firebomb - I see this as throwing skulls at enemies. Skulls with a little napalm bomb inside of them. They break, napalm goes boom. More damage than lighting someone up.
Locust Swarm - The same as the other controlling spells, only it does exactly what the Diablo III spell says. Perhaps some level of intrerupting an enemy attack, as well.
Acid cloud - Witch doctors have been known to light carefully prepared and crushed leaves, giving different smokes, with different spells. One might allow easy stitching, as an aestethic, as Derrick has been RP'd with, while other may, indeed, raise a poisonous fume.
Haunt - I see this a little unlogical, as spirits are not one's to command in the world of Azeroth. But, then again, witch doctors are known to be able to force spirits one way or another. So maybe this ability isn't so unlogical as I've originally thought?
Horrify - A fear-spell, often known in priests and warlocks, as well as warriors. Not sure wheter this would work. Perhaps, again, by forcing a spirit to do so.
Spirit Walk - I'm guessing nada. Witch Doctors don't just disappear on the spot, do they?
Soul Harvest - Warlock spell, only it only damages. Not sure wheter it would work for a witch doctor.
Spirit Barage - This is a priest's spell, able to 'bombard' a target's mind. Maybe'd work, maybe not?
Mass Confusion - Again, if forcing spirits to do the witch doctor's job is allowed, this could work. But this might very well be Horrify.
Hex - This is already an ability witch doctors -World of Warcraft witch doctors- posses. I'm not sure enemies would turn into chickens, though.
Big Bad Voodoo - Just like hex.
Fetish Army - Just like hex. I'm afraid, though, that this might be too much?

Zombie-controlling. Zalazane is known for having this ability, as well as other trolls. Those -and, I think, with no exception- are also necromancers by RPG-class, but witch doctor and sorcerer by WoW. Bear, also, in mind that bodies can't be found anywhere. It'd require a place such as a graveyard, or such, as witch doctors aren't really necromancers, so they can't control a zombie's mind to follow him everywhere. No? I would like to let this for GMs to decide. Here is a list for the zombie abilities I have not written before. These shall be colored the same way, with the exception that I will temporarily believe zombie-controlling to be possible.

Spoiler:

Please let me know what you think.

QUICK-EDIT: These abilities are the ones from Diablo III alone. The witch doctors from Azeroth also have some abilities of themselves, such as a gigantic amount of knowledge about different substances and where to find them, as well as how to mix them. They are, thus, able to make the uncanny concotions in their mighty cauldrons. Also voodoo, mon.
LATE-EDIT: Would a witch doctor be able to speak to the spirits freely? I know I've already seen a someone use this IC. Will the spirits tell him, for example, where his enemies are, or the sorts?

Don't know about witchdoctors much...

But WoW Wiki says

"The witch doctor is an alchemical and spiritual master, skilled at not only simply brewing potions and alchemical goods, but at awakening the spirits of the ingredients that go into his goods."

Summoning necromancers, forcing spirits these are all cross-class characteristics. The witchdoctor only speaks to the spirits of the ingredients used in there spellcasting.

Another interesting points "The witch doctor can shake and rattle the gourds and necklaces that he carries to create a frightening rhythmic effect. The juju of the highly skilled witch doctor becomes potent enough to kill (the Death Rattle). The reagent required to use this ability is a death gourd, which must be cursed and carved by the witch doctor himself using bizarre and disgusting components. The witch doctor can rattle his death gourd, targeting a number of living creatures, the closest creatures are affected first. "

This is the only evidence of 'mind control' and I think you have to have character permission to MC them.

'Witch doctors teach that worthy trolls receive dominion over various aspects of nature upon their death - whether plants, weather, beasts, or even disease. When witch doctors exhibit their supernatural powers to cure the sick, control nature, or assist in battle, it is said that ancestral spirits are riding them. '

In order to 'control a person' wiki says "The witch doctor can add drops of the Zuvembi brew to any potion. The brew creates a powerful suggestive state in the imbiber that he can trigger and control. After drinking a Zuvembi brew potion, the imbiber can be dominated by the witch doctor. "

"Witch doctors are also benders of will, as they can control other lesser intellectual beings with their mind. These tricks can be fatal for several enemies of the witch doctor, not knowing whom of their allies to trust anymore. They are also able to sear through a targets mind and erase or create new memories as they please, causing the target to get confused and not knowing what is real. These rituals will also inflict massive pain onto the target. "

Generally, stick to class abilities (Shaman or Priest) along with strong alchemical mixtures (potions, poisons, etc). Hex, like Polymorph, is something you can do, but requires a willing target, whether or not you are doing rolls. You can credit the Loa as helping provide you with whatever class abilities you use.

Both Shaman and Priest classes provide for resurrecting the dead, but as for undead minions I'm not sure that would be allowed.

@Nephuria
As I've said, I've not mentioned the abilities on the wikies in the list, as these are already known to me. I am just trying to verify wheter Diablo III witch doctor spells, or some of them, are available for WoW witch doctors. Also, bear in mind that WoW Wiki is somewhat outdated'er than WoWpedia.

@Jonoth
Jozz is a shaman OOC, but a witch doctor IC. They are a combination between shadow priests and shamans, actually, but neither one, nor the other. Witch doctors have no control over the elements -just lighting, as I've been told- and do not use the light or shadow like a priest would. They are much more different. Thus, their spells are way different.

Bring moar ideas, pl0x!

Quote:LATE-EDIT: Would a witch doctor be able to speak to the spirits freely? I know I've already seen a someone use this IC. Will the spirits tell him, for example, where his enemies are, or the sorts?

(01-25-2012, 10:40 AM)13kira13 Wrote: [ -> ]Also, bear in mind that WoW Wiki is somewhat outdated'er than WoWpedia.

I just wanted to point out that this is only kind of correct for this particular article. The last update to the WoWWiki article was July 2010, while the WoWpedia article was last updated September 2011. However, looking over the histories of the WoWpedia article, it seems that no substantial changes have been made to the page: the only changes that have been made are to add links to Juju within WoWpedia and also to provide another notable example of witch doctors.

Other than those tiny changes, the articles are identical.

It's not correct to assume that WoWpedia is always more recent or correct than WoWWiki; both have thriving communities of editors and many changes made on one wiki gets updated on the other because there is occasionally overlap. The split within the original WoWWiki community did cause some divergence, but it does not make one substantially more correct than the other.

Edit: I should probably add that my intent wasn't to correct you, Kira! The idea that one wiki is better/more accurate/awesomer than the other is a common falacy, usually perpetuated by community members of one site or another. Both are very excellent resources and I have been known to occasionally update articles on both sites!

Regarding the question that you snuck in as I was making my post, I'd lean towards yes, in that your character can most likely communicate with spirits but, no, it probably shouldn't be used to gain substantial advantage over other characters. If all parties are consenting, however, use it!

My troll priest is a specifically a spirit (wo)man and she communicates with spirits, both good and evil. However, I couch her abilities by emphasizing that the spirits aren't always capable of viewing things the way that the mortal races (or still-living) do and so their words are often couched in incomprehensible gibberish or even unintentional convoluted riddles.

I've been writing up my own 'lore' regarding a troll tribe and in it I outline the differences between witch doctors and spirit men in that specific society. I posted it some time ago on my retail guild's website, so you can take a gander if you'd like. I'm interested in how this discussion outlines witch doctors because it could impact how I portray the ones within the Jang'ai (though, to be fair, I'm more interested in their social standing and roles than actual abilities -- but that's going to delve into a rant that probably should be saved for another time and place!).

Witch doctors can do a lot of weird crap. Really, just take a look at what you see in the games, and don't be afraid to get creative. If you think something is OP, then just avoid it.

And the best witch doctor ability of all?

They can sing a snazzy song.
http://youtu.be/d4glZPIaGH4

Spoiler:

(01-25-2012, 10:59 AM)Piroska Wrote: [ -> ]
(01-25-2012, 10:40 AM)13kira13 Wrote: [ -> ]Also, bear in mind that WoW Wiki is somewhat outdated'er than WoWpedia.

I just wanted to point out that this is only kind of correct for this particular article. The last update to the WoWWiki article was July 2010, while the WoWpedia article was last updated September 2011. However, looking over the histories of the WoWpedia article, it seems that no substantial changes have been made to the page: the only changes that have been made are to add links to Juju within WoWpedia and also to provide another notable example of witch doctors.

Other than those tiny changes, the articles are identical.

It's not correct to assume that WoWpedia is always more recent or correct than WoWWiki; both have thriving communities of editors and many changes made on one wiki gets updated on the other because there is occasionally overlap. The split within the original WoWWiki community did cause some divergence, but it does not make one substantially more correct than the other.

Edit: I should probably add that my intent wasn't to correct you, Kira! The idea that one wiki is better/more accurate/awesomer than the other is a common falacy, usually perpetuated by community members of one site or another. Both are very excellent resources and I have been known to occasionally update articles on both sites!

Regarding the question that you snuck in as I was making my post, I'd lean towards yes, in that your character can most likely communicate with spirits but, no, it probably shouldn't be used to gain substantial advantage over other characters. If all parties are consenting, however, use it!

My troll priest is a specifically a spirit (wo)man and she communicates with spirits, both good and evil. However, I couch her abilities by emphasizing that the spirits aren't always capable of viewing things the way that the mortal races (or still-living) do and so their words are often couched in incomprehensible gibberish or even unintentional convoluted riddles.

I've been writing up my own 'lore' regarding a troll tribe and in it I outline the differences between witch doctors and spirit men in that specific society. I posted it some time ago on my retail guild's website, so you can take a gander if you'd like. I'm interested in how this discussion outlines witch doctors because it could impact how I portray the ones within the Jang'ai (though, to be fair, I'm more interested in their social standing and roles than actual abilities -- but that's going to delve into a rant that probably should be saved for another time and place!).

No worries, Piroska!
Cappn, that song is awesomesauce reborn.

I would still like to verify the spells listed, pl0x ?

All the spells seem legit to me. Witch doctors are a curious sort of class who (usually) speak to malevolent spirits, so the borderline Necromancy stuff is still plausible.

Can I get a GM verifying on this, please ?

You got two ways of looking at it, all the stereotypical troll magicks in one character... but consider that there are two more specialized "classes" that practice voodoo so I'd say it's key -you- have a picture on what hexxers and shadow hunters can do and the witch hunter cannot. And it has already been pointed out but I shall repeat;

Witch doctors rely on juju (alchemy) and fetishes (not voodoo dolls). They have to magic of their own so no bolts and instant spells unless they have prepared items that work like scrolls that can release a pre-cast spell.

I take that from you, Bovel, and give you this:

http://www.wowpedia.org/Witch_doctor Wrote:Creating curses and hexes is a specialty of the witch doctor. The witch doctor can make a deadly doll of wax or tallow containing a specific person's hair, skin or blood. He can affect the target with a harmful touch attack spell as long as the person is on the same plane. The doll disintegrates after a touch attack. Using shadow and voodoo magic, the witch doctors can also cast spells without the use of dolls. By repeating old ritualistic chants, the witch doctor curses the target into feeling pain without physically harming it, only mentally. This might still prove deadly.

Yeah, I know but that just proves you didn't read my entire post. Hexxers are described as using dance to invoke malicious spirits on others as well as dolls which they are experts at... So keeping to the niches of each the troll classes would mean no dolls for the witch doctor since they got basically everything else.

It's important to keep in mind that a lot of what is written regarding witch doctors draws a lot on witch doctors and their roles within various different societies in the real world. Therefore, it's understandable when you read conflicting assessments of their abilities and roles.

That said, given the differing types of trolls and even differences between the tribes, it would make sense that the roles and abilities of key members within those societies would be different. Accepting that concept also opens up the portrayal of individuals like witch doctors, which can allow for far more flexibility in roleplay -- and also more engaging roleplay since it's no longer a cookie-cutter class.

I feel that this fixation on abilities and strengths/weaknesses inherent of characters is detrimental to roleplay. It shifts the perception of roleplay to an inevitable competition, when (I feel, of course) roleplay should be a collaboration with others. I don't have an issue with combat-based roleplay since it's logical and expected within the Warcraft universe, but it should be a means to the end and a further cataclyst for roleplay.

Shadow hunters are like a higher rank between the users of voodoo magic, right? So I think that their abilities it wouldn't be so different. You could check into this:
http://www.wowpedia.org/Shadow_Hunter_(Warcraft_III)

Also remind that Rokhan, the Shadow Hunter that aided Rexxar, had a Spirit Swarm ability, in which various voodoo spirits flew around him and drained his enemies' health to heal him. Maybe, as a simple Witch Doctor, it would be a single spirit. It's a spell that would cause lots of fatigue, as it is Rokhan's most powerful spell.

And of course, there are Witch Doctor simple units in WCIII too! So check this too:
http://www.wowpedia.org/Witch_Doctor_(Warcraft_III)

I hope that this helps you. ^^

(01-25-2012, 09:33 AM)13kira13 Wrote: [ -> ]As some of you might probably know, I've recently made a witch doctor troll. I have been having this idea stuck in my mind -which I guess is pretty much logical- that witch doctors are high-regarded in troll community. To be able to roleplay past that, though, I have made Jozz a 'fon, otherwise known as a loner, having no political or monetary power. I would want to check if that is alright, so I may RP further, without a special profile?

Also, there is the problem about a witch doctor's spells and, overall, abilities. WoWPedia has very little information about those, it seems, but I have taken liberty of looking at Diablo III's Witch Doctor, and found many of those to be perfectly possible with a little changes. I shall color the perfectly possible ones in green, the unknown ones in yellow, and the impossible ones in red.
Here is a list of said abilities.
[spoiler]
I would like to let the zombie abilities for a little later. Thus, I will just jump over those, only to be explained after the list ends.
Poison dart - I see this very logical. Trolls have been known to use poison with their weapons, and darts are very easy to use. Plus, they are very tribal.

Plague of Toads - Due to a witch doctor's ability to control the minds of lesser beings, I see this logical as well. Controlling one, two, three, maybe four frogs, to come beside the witch doctor, who puts an infesting plague on their skin, and sends them towards the witch doctor's enemy. That okay?

Corpse spiders - Again, just like the toad ability, the witch doctor would control spider minds to attack a target. I would also like to point that it sounds only logical for the witch doctor's ability to control a lesser being's mind to be invers proportional with the size of this being. Thus, a horde of spiders would be way easier to control than a horde of toads.

Firebats - Alright, this may seem strange, thinking that they're bats on fire. I'd like to let this as sending bats to disrupt a spell or incapacitate the target, or simply stop it from attacking in any way, for a short time.

Firebomb - I see this as throwing skulls at enemies. Skulls with a little napalm bomb inside of them. They break, napalm goes boom. More damage than lighting someone up.

Locust Swarm - The same as the other controlling spells, only it does exactly what the Diablo III spell says. Perhaps some level of intrerupting an enemy attack, as well.

Acid cloud - Witch doctors have been known to light carefully prepared and crushed leaves, giving different smokes, with different spells. One might allow easy stitching, as an aestethic, as Derrick has been RP'd with, while other may, indeed, raise a poisonous fume.

Haunt - I see this a little unlogical, as spirits are not one's to command in the world of Azeroth. But, then again, witch doctors are known to be able to force spirits one way or another. So maybe this ability isn't so unlogical as I've originally thought?

http://www.wowpedia.org/Haunt

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Kira13

Nephuria

Jonoth

Kira13

Piroska

CappnRob

Kira13

CappnRob

Kira13

Bovel

Kira13

Bovel

Piroska

PhilGobatto

Aphetoros