Conquest of the Horde

Alright, I'm not trying to start a huge drama explosion, or have people yelling back and forth about right and wrong. I'm here to clarify. My first, and first approved, character, Jaedyn, happens to be a Troll Berserker. Well...he doesn't have a few things down, but he's got the main gist. (see http://www.conquestofthehorde.com/Thread-Jaedyn)
But anyways, I've been out and about for a little bit, fighting other places than Gurubashi, and it appears people don't understand. I've been told by several people that the way I fight is...well, in less polite terms, wrong. I'm here to defend my case, apparently.
First off, Jaedyn was -created- to be an arena fighter, only afterwards deciding being a Berserker was more fitting to his personality. I think I've got a handle on what's-what if I made him in that purpose alone and managed to get approved. Not bragging, not slapping in faces, but clearly stating.
Second off, I do understand that when I do a few things, I do them a little wrong. I am getting better. I came here to CotH and had never Combat RPed before, and I fell in love on contact. As much as I have what I do and how down, I'm still getting used to having to differ for every sort of fighting style. I, myself, don't believe I do bad, but this point is just for those wondering when I'm going to submit to being wrong.
Third, and most strong point, I'd like to direct those in disbelief to WoWWiki. http://www.wowpedia.org/Berserker

I'd just clearly like to state some of the complaints I've received, and well...back them up.

1. You fight too long, man. Clear.
"With Ferocity a berserker is such a tenacious combatant that he continues to fight without difficulty even while disabled or dying."- Straight from the text.
"As gains Superior Rage his strength and stamina increases, as does his morale."- Also.

2. You can't dodge every attack, or every other attack.
Okay, so I don't have a quote from WoWWiki to clear this one up. but I have personal excuses. I know I do this often, and I'm doing my best to mentally discipline and change it. I am often attracted to, as a fighter, mirror that of my opponent. If my opponent is more likely or not to dodge, I feel compelled to have the same power. Although this is not correct in -ALL- situations, I feel for most it should be.

3. You heal waaay too quickly, Jae.
First off, I know this is horribly over-done, but allow me to point you http://www.wowpedia.org/Regeneration_%28racial%29 , also. http://www.wowpedia.org/Enraged_Regeneration Now, if we take this move out of context of being a "rage" move, Jae is in fact a "warrior". So, if, after a battle, or during, even, he begins to bleed efficiently, or break a few bones, some rage and adrenaline could of course come to bring this move into existence. I don't, of course, have his bones mend strangely. No, I put it more into the way of his wounds not bleeding as much, or healing quickly. If I'm wrong, tell me. This is just my opinion.

Okay, that just about wraps it up. As I said, not trying to push anyone's face in the dirt, I understand I was just getting friendly advice to make me a better RPer, but I felt somewhat offended by it. One person would be okay, but many people seem to have the wrong idea about Jaedyn, and I hope this information and links has helped those who thought so understand, and teach other thread-viewers about Berserkers. That's...all. Thanks for taking the time to read, digest, and possibly comment. (Just as long as it's a very nice, smiley comment. <3)

While you bring up good points, discretion is the greater part of valor. If people are complaining, instead of bucking up, reach a compromise.

I like the character Jaedyn, but having seen him fight like he does, I do think he goes too far at times. Furthermore, a Berserker doesn't NOT get hurt, they just fight through the pain and are powered by it. They will still drop dead after a while.

Also, troll regeneration isn't -that- good. It's a slow, natural heal, and bodies can't heal properly if they're stressed.

Coming from a guy with a berserker of his own.

Coming from someone who plays a berserker too, I do not think dodging should happen all that much. These're rage-fueled killing machines. Not Rogues. Their whole gist is fighting through the pain, broken bones, arrows embedded in their flesh and such. You're practically -meant- to take hits as a Berserker, because they fuel your rage further. Tone dodging down if people're saying you do it too much, or remove it altogether. If anything, parry or block, if you're clear-headed enough at the time, but most of the time you'll be too angry to do either.

As for Troll Regen, it's pretty damn good, or pretty damn bad depending on the Troll. Some can't regen at all. Some, like Vola'jin the Void, can regenerate their entire body after bathing in a pool of shadowflame, having just their head and upper torso remain. Yeah. Combine that with Enraged Regeneration or some alchemy, and you've got veritable healz.

Above all, keep in mind the notion of fair-play and equal opportunity and offer respect to your fellow players. /salute.

'N have fun!

While talents and spells can be considered IC, there is one big thing to remember on Coth. And that is...


It can be frustrating or confusing, and yes, the statement "so a farmer gnome can take down a tauren bonecrusher" has been brought up. Unless you're specifically playing a weaker character, and want to be weaker than others, everyone is equal.

I would advise roll fighting for a while to teach yourself some balance, and how you can play off weaknesses and strengths equally.

I had one RP fight with you, and honestly, you typed an unfair amount of emotes. There were moments when I was typing up an emote, in which my character would've made a move, but I was cut off by you posting your second consecutive emote. I know your character is a quick, raging berserker, but that doesn't excuse you from typing multiple, separate emotes when your opponent is typing one at a time.

Honestly, I was very irritated by the way you over-asserted your character in the fight. I was unable to do anything creative because by the time I could articulate my idea, you had already barraged me with another emote. Give your opponent a chance to do more than defend, and you'll get less complaints about your combat RP.

Um, well not actually have really fought you, but I will say that you type REALLY fast :P That's it on any of my complaints I hate to add on to negative(ish) things so I'd like to say I do like your fighting :3 As with playing with you, I am the twins who love to see you fight so much :3 So a recap cause I lost myself, type slower otherwise I loves your fighting

I am impressed with your consistency in your combat. There is a particular combo that I'll not expose for the sake of spoilers - but I think it is good that your character has a signature move. As for your typing speed, well, that is a refreshing change of pace! It was nice to get a duel in a reasonable amount of time.

I also want to note that it is just fine to have a duel end without bleeding and nearly dead. Losing a duel can be a matter of pride, frustration or a single, particular injury. The example of this I am referring to was in the duel with Wuchikha in the arena. She just kind of got a lucky jab in, and I think that could hurt Jaedyn's pride more than physically hurting him.

I agree with the others, but wanted to offer my own advice. :3

In order to not add on to whats already been said, I'll keep this short and sweet. In regards to dodging, berserkers don't do much of that. In the earlier stages of the fight you might dodge lethal blows, but as the fight drags on their fighting style would change into a more 'simple' fighting style. In fact, I would actually think the way the Hulk fights can be a good comparison(note, before Bruce Banner manages to control it). He doesn't dodge much, rather he uses his body as a shield and simply wrecks everything that has the bad luck of getting too close.

Indeed, I do type fast, and I've been confronted about such but have not been told it as a bad thing. Yes, in my earlier times, I do indeed do several emotes. But I, rather, only do one -attack-. Yes, I may have one or two emotes about receiving a hit, and backing up, but considerably that isn't a consecutive turn. I have tried to tone it down to a minimum, but in intense fights or fights with overly-skilled people, I tend to detail my emotes very well to insure dodging can be harder, and hits can result how I wish them to. This is also something I am working on. Also, in most occasions, I do only dodge whilst level-headed, or in the beginning. Near the peak of Jae's anger, he will simply allow slashes and gashes to appear. I am very aware of the "fighting through the pain" idea, and I very much use pain to fuel Jae's anger in a fight. Some people tell me I react to a damaging move too little, and don't emote the pain and effect as I should. Berserkers don't really falter from a slash on the arm, or a few good--
Without having to rant or anything, it's pretty self-explanatory. The essence of Jae's ability to go on and on is the essence of pain. Some would argue that's not viable, but think. He's trained himself to use pain as adrenaline and power. So, if I continue to feel pain..I'd continue to feel adrenaline, thus continuing to fight. "But the body would give out at some point.." Yes, it would, and I do that on Jae. More often then not, by the end of a fight, whether he wins or not, Jae is rather compelled to completely black out. He highly over-abuses and over-stresses his body, but doesn't allow it to affect him in combat. It, rather, affects him in the long run, making coping and healing harder for him substantially. The point of this whole post, though, was just to make people aware that I am trying my hardest not to Metagame or of the like, but that is just -who- Jae is. It upsets me if I upset people over the way I roleplay, but it is indeed the way it is, and this is just to help me prove it.

Coming as a person who looooooooooooooooooooooooooooovvvvvvvvvvvvvesssssss loves, looooooooooovvvvvvvessss to do really long emotes (especially in combat RP), I actually commend you for taking the effort to do the same. Combat RP, in my opinion, works best with detailed attacks and reactions. I get turned off of the RP when it becomes a fight of one-line emotes dictated completely by rolls.

I.E -

"/e stabs at you with a sword.

/e blocks the sword. Then stabs back.

/e dodges the stab. Then throws a kick. "

Which so often happen in the arena. I think complexity and creativity are needed to make combat RP 'work'. So, I'd say putting forth the extra effort to describe your attacks and reactions is a good thing.

However, it seems the issue that you may be running into is in the etiquette behind the combat, or lack there of. Some suggestions I'd offer is that in the event of your character doing a elongated emote, try to plan it out. Indicate that you're going to continue your emote with either an emm dash " -- " or a ( c ), which has come to be known as a way of communicating "continued".

For example:

Quote:/e lets out a gasp as Player X's sword cuts a swath against his chest. As his chain mail shatters against the blade, Krent stumbles backwards, gripping at the bloodied wound. Staring down at the fresh cut, he murmurs out "d-damn that hurt," taking a moment to straighten his stance--

/e --Once he recovers from the staggering blow, Krent straightens himself up. Biting through the pain, as blood trickles down his chest, Krent raises his sword in preperation of a counter attack. Screaming, he lashes out with a vertical slice, aimed at Player X's chest.

Also, try not to go over two emote-blocks. Three emotes tend to be overkill and monopolizes too much time in the RP realm. Don't get hung up in creating the "perfect" counter attack or try to calculate everything in the most minute way possible. As a rule of thumb, try not to spend more than 20 - 30 seconds in your response. Momentum is a very significant factor in a combat situation; letting things stagnate for too long tends to 'kill' the mood of the combat.

Another thing, which is very, very, VERY important, is to wait for your opponent to respond before taking another action. When your 'turn' is used up, wait for your opponent to make a response before having another one. It's a common courtesy that should extend in all RP situations.

'Balance' and the like is another crazy topic. We've had many debates over this, with people having difficulty in trying to find the right mechanics. 'Trust' RP falls into this problem many a time, as more often than not two players will insist that their character is better than the other's because of their class.

"My warrior is a seasoned war veteran!"

"Oh yeah? Well, so is mine! But he's even more seasoned than yours!"

In this situation, its best to resolve it in rolls. While it may not be ideal--everyone being put on an equal playing field--it tends to be the best way to avoid god-moding. For myself, I don't engage in trust RP unless I truly trust and know the other player. You have to get a sense of the person OOC'ly in order to do 'proper' trust RP, in my opinion. But not only do you have to place trust in the other player, but you have to place trust in yourself. Enough trust that you know your character's weaknesses, and are cognizant in how they might lose the situation. Hell, you have to be willing to let yourself lose. Otherwise, you could run into some very turbulent OOC feelings and dreaded dramatics.

All in all, don't ever get discouraged. We've all made mistakes in our RP road, and so long as you're willing to acknowledge your problems and work on improving them (as evidenced in this thread), I'd say you're on the right track. Just keep an open mind, be accepting of criticism, and work on bettering your interactions in the future.

(09-15-2012, 06:04 PM)Valicor Wrote: [ -> ]Indeed, I do type fast, and I've been confronted about such but have not been told it as a bad thing. Yes, in my earlier times, I do indeed do several emotes. But I, rather, only do one -attack-. Yes, I may have one or two emotes about receiving a hit, and backing up, but considerably that isn't a consecutive turn. I have tried to tone it down to a minimum, but in intense fights or fights with overly-skilled people, I tend to detail my emotes very well to insure dodging can be harder, and hits can result how I wish them to. This is also something I am working on. Also, in most occasions, I do only dodge whilst level-headed, or in the beginning. Near the peak of Jae's anger, he will simply allow slashes and gashes to appear. I am very aware of the "fighting through the pain" idea, and I very much use pain to fuel Jae's anger in a fight. Some people tell me I react to a damaging move too little, and don't emote the pain and effect as I should. Berserkers don't really falter from a slash on the arm, or a few good--
Without having to rant or anything, it's pretty self-explanatory. The essence of Jae's ability to go on and on is the essence of pain. Some would argue that's not viable, but think. He's trained himself to use pain as adrenaline and power. So, if I continue to feel pain..I'd continue to feel adrenaline, thus continuing to fight. "But the body would give out at some point.." Yes, it would, and I do that on Jae. More often then not, by the end of a fight, whether he wins or not, Jae is rather compelled to completely black out. He highly over-abuses and over-stresses his body, but doesn't allow it to affect him in combat. It, rather, affects him in the long run, making coping and healing harder for him substantially. The point of this whole post, though, was just to make people aware that I am trying my hardest not to Metagame or of the like, but that is just -who- Jae is. It upsets me if I upset people over the way I roleplay, but it is indeed the way it is, and this is just to help me prove it.

The thing is, however, even a berserker has limits. The effects of physical abuse may not show during combat due to his rage, but afterwards there would definitely be some effects. I can't recall if you let Jae's rage continue after a fight, but one of the problems I see is that once in a fury, berserkers are almost impossible to stop. I shall quote your same source,

Quote:When in a fury, the berserker cannot discern between friend and foe; he attacks every target within reach, regardless of whether or not it is a friend or an opponent.

They are hard to stop, yes. But one must still be realistic with the amount of damage they have taken. For example, after two battles using a style of combat that is based on taking blows, and using the anger it builds to dish out terrifying amounts of damage, the character is likely to be tired and or extremely injured. Since they are injured, it becomes unrealistic for them to keep fighting. From what I've read here, it seems like your OOC brain is thinking,

"Well, realistically he could do this to avoid this blow, and then he could do that and..."

I used to think like that in combat situations, but I think it might be a safer bet for you to take into account the following:

1. The damage he has taken. Despite being able to 'soldier through the pain,' he's still taking damage which will undoubtedly make him weaker.

2. His anger. His mind is probably not as clear as yours! The rage of a berserker would probably make him want to attack, dishing out simple and yet deadly strong attacks. A berserker isn't one to execute a highly-skilled maneuver with finesse and grace, the berserker in-rage will likely come to simple attacks, yet with crushing power. I think of them like a charging bull; powerful and enraged, but hard to stop. His attacks are likely to be powerful, but with large wind-ups and long recovery time between swings. When I think of a berserker, I think of someone pulling back and gathering power before unleashing it in a lethal cleave. It would probably take them a moment to regain their balance after the attack. I think it might be adequate to say long charge-up and long-cooldown (so to speak) attacks.


This isn't a great example, but here's a video I found. I couldn't remember what the class was called at first, but ironically it is berserker. This is from the game TERA, and despite it being a Castanic (demon-elf-man), I think it gets what I'm saying across. Heavy attacks that take a moment to recover from performing. (I personally think berserkers should be played by one of the larger races, but that's just me!)

I see where you're coming from, but the fact that Trolls are considered to be agile, Jae can deal damage, but it's not as you think. When I picture a Berserker...Jae, anyways, I picture a flurry. Lots of power, lots of swings, and adrenaline overcoming tire. Of course, by the end of the fight, his body is completely wrecked, and he is badly injured. Right now he has a shattered collarbone, and it has trouble healing because his body isn't used to the down-time, healing status. It's -used- to being stressed, and being over-abused. Another playing factor, believe or not, is Pride. Jae, as a character, is very proud. Pride can drive a long way, (I.E - Jae fights somebody in an arena in front of a 20-person crowd. That's 21 people he doesn't want to see him lose, believing he'd humiliate himself. Thus, he'd try 10x harder just to assure he DOESN'T lose.) but even that has a downfall. Stated, he will try harder, which indeed will empower his rages even moreso, but will make the effect wear off faster, and make him plummet adrenaline-wise after a shorter amount of time. This comes in to play not tiring him over time, but, as I said, having him go and go and go, and eventually just -pass out cold-. In a big fight, this will happen, more often then not, sooner than other fights. Small fights, he's still angry and proud, and is prone to fight for an overly-good amount of time before passing out. It's a weird method to work with, but I work with it indeed. A Berserker is a generalized statement. As you said, you think of long-charge attacks and long-recovery time. Berserker, yes, is a way of fighting, but it's all in character and how you've -trained- yourself IC. Jae has been trained, over career in Arena, to be quick to react, to be fast. An Orc Berserker, per say, may make huge attacks and suffer setbacks. Jae can only fight the way he does because he's fought that way for several years. He's used to it. I understand that everybody has limits, and so does Jae. More often then not, though, people focus on the fact that I fought for so long, not the fact that I -PASSED OUT-. Yes, that's a limit-reach, and I find it suitable. As I said, I'm here to learn. If you don't think so, please say it. I don't want people to have problems every time they RP with me, that'd be downright awkward.

Bare in mind that playing as a Berserker is just a change in how you fight, not power. No matter what, if a Berserker is fighting a Soldier, they'll be as powerful as one another for fairness sake, they just have different methods of how to fight. While a Berserker would go forth with a flurry of attacks without a care for his own safety, a Soldier would be more cautious about parrying blows and striking when an opening presents itself.

(09-15-2012, 08:45 PM)Valicor Wrote: [ -> ]I see where you're coming from, but the fact that Trolls are considered to be agile, Jae can deal damage, but it's not as you think. When I picture a Berserker...Jae, anyways, I picture a flurry. Lots of power, lots of swings, and adrenaline overcoming tire. Of course, by the end of the fight, his body is completely wrecked, and he is badly injured. Right now he has a shattered collarbone, and it has trouble healing because his body isn't used to the down-time, healing status. It's -used- to being stressed, and being over-abused. Another playing factor, believe or not, is Pride. Jae, as a character, is very proud. Pride can drive a long way, (I.E - Jae fights somebody in an arena in front of a 20-person crowd. That's 21 people he doesn't want to see him lose, believing he'd humiliate himself. Thus, he'd try 10x harder just to assure he DOESN'T lose.) but even that has a downfall. Stated, he will try harder, which indeed will empower his rages even moreso, but will make the effect wear off faster, and make him plummet adrenaline-wise after a shorter amount of time. This comes in to play not tiring him over time, but, as I said, having him go and go and go, and eventually just -pass out cold-. In a big fight, this will happen, more often then not, sooner than other fights. Small fights, he's still angry and proud, and is prone to fight for an overly-good amount of time before passing out. It's a weird method to work with, but I work with it indeed. A Berserker is a generalized statement. As you said, you think of long-charge attacks and long-recovery time. Berserker, yes, is a way of fighting, but it's all in character and how you've -trained- yourself IC. Jae has been trained, over career in Arena, to be quick to react, to be fast. An Orc Berserker, per say, may make huge attacks and suffer setbacks. Jae can only fight the way he does because he's fought that way for several years. He's used to it. I understand that everybody has limits, and so does Jae. More often then not, though, people focus on the fact that I fought for so long, not the fact that I -PASSED OUT-. Yes, that's a limit-reach, and I find it suitable. As I said, I'm here to learn. If you don't think so, please say it. I don't want people to have problems every time they RP with me, that'd be downright awkward.

This really has nothing to do with the Berserkers but...if you could space out your stuffs it would be helpful :P It made my eyes hurt a little and I kept getting lost >.< But back to the berserker thing, passing out seems a good way to balance and to let you note agian I still love your fighting style. Just slowing down would still be nice :P

I think at the end of the day, you have to remember that the RP isn't just about yourself, that their is more than one person involved. It appears (As I have not RPed with you, but reading through the thread has given me an idea of it) that you worry a bit too much about having the perfect berserker, when flaws, especially in combat, can add so much to a character.

The way I consider fighting/combat/skills for my characters is taking twenty points and putting them in different places. My old character Jean was a reckless, passionate fist fighter who got herself in to trouble one too many times. She was bulky, so she lacked the agility, but her bulk also helped take blows from opponents. You just have think of that way. Faults are a -beautiful- thing, and sometimes bigger ones are even better.

Anyways, on the emote thing, it is generally a good idea to do one emote (being however long) then wait for the response. I've been in combat situations where people never gave me a chance to reply and it made me frustrated to the point where I retconned it and left.

Just take what everyone has said and work off it. Always a good thing to do.