So @Jonoth it was the roll bonuses and power struggle that led to the failure of the prestige system, in your opinion? I genuinely don't know the answer, of course, since I wasn't around for it. Would you say, then, that the community is unwilling to accept a slope based upon power?
There are, of course, plenty of other tangible, motivating elements both in-game and meta-game upon which to base a slope besides power in the form of roll bonuses.
If past experience dictates that power-based slopes (of which prestige and levels are a subset) are poorly tolerated by the community, then without a doubt we should focus on other kinds of slopes, be they wealth-based slopes, gear-based slopes, or any other kind (there are many others). But again, this is something that only you guys--the veterans--can conclude.
(10-23-2013, 04:56 PM)Jonoth Wrote: [ -> ]A wise man named @therew once told me about having members of his guild establish goals, and his events would do their best to work towards those goals, while the RP in-between is what strengthened the bonds between characters. Each one helped the other, and when internal strife arose, created a tension as to whether they'd lose the bonds that were aiding them. It was a circle of growth. It was the slope.
Now, please don't take this as an offense, and please do correct me if you feel I am in the wrong, but this is the sort of thing I think about when I think of "intangible" or "imaginary" slopes.
Consider: this form of slope relies upon roleplaying in a setting and with a community that supports one's goals--and so without the proper setting or community, this system loses steam.
For example, the short-term goal of Peebles the Paladin is to beat the snot out of undead and demons. The long term goal of Peebles the Paladin is to achieve fame and recognition for his heroic acts of valor in service of the Light. Thus, if Peebles the Paladin is perpetually placed in a position of peace (lol), that is to say, in the absence of a setting involving vanquishing evil and a community (guild) around him to laud him for his exploits, none of his goals will be satisfied.
Additionally, there's still nothing tangible for Peebles to strive toward. If, for whatever reason, Peebles becomes separated from his community (for example, if his guild becomes inactive), he effectually loses all that he has achieved. Thus the player is committed to Peebles only insofar as his guild stays active; when the guild winds down, Peebles can be retired or deleted, for all the player cares.
(10-23-2013, 05:22 PM)Kage Wrote: [ -> ]A prestige system isn't needed to have training rp. Despite the fact that all player characters are considered equal, if you make a character made to be weaker then others, opportunity arises.
Very similar to what Jonoth is talking about.
NOTE: the stuff written below is NOT reflective of any sort of sentiment of mine to bring the prestige system back; I am merely using it for the sake of an example of a concrete/tangible slope.
No, a prestige system isn't needed to have training RP, but it is needed to have a
gain to a training RP. Yes, you can set a limit on your character and make him weaker, but everyone knows--even you know--that nothing is really happening there, or if is, it's all in the mind of you and your trainer. So when something (like real-life, for example) gets in the way, and you can't meet with your trainer anymore, you're forced to face the reality that your character hasn't actually advanced an inch other than in your own imagination. Thus, you're free to retire your character or kill him off as you wish, since you could just as easily start over with another one--you wouldn't
really lose any ground.
But with a prestige system, you
do have an achievement. You're a prestige class! You get to wield fancy gears and armors and have powers. Everyone--even people who weren't there for your training RP--recognizes that you went through the rigorous training to get as far as you are now. And, moreover, you can't so easily just retire your prestige character and start over; you put a lot of work into it, and you'd be going back to square one!
Once again, I do NOT mean this as a support of the prestige system. It is a power-based slope, and apparently people here don't like power-based slopes. But it is a useful example of a concrete or tangible slope; your achievement is not merely a concept in the minds of yourself and the people who happened to be there during your roleplay, but rather it bears tangible rewards that everyone recognizes and appreciates.