Conquest of the Horde

Hello, CotHians! Reigen here with a change in policy concerning nobles.

Recently it was brought up the nobility is far too easy to obtain and after thinking on it, this was seen to be true. Another problem would be that nobles would often do things that should garner the attention of the authorities and faced no punishment for such deeds because there was no way to report it ICly or OOCly [murdering someone in cold blood, talking about illegal activities in the street, prancing slaves around in areas slaves were forbidden, ect]. It also came to our attention that there was no listing or way of seeing what noble houses were around, what they did and if they were open to members or not. Thus we aimed to fix two problems in one go.

So what does this mean?

Starting now, all noble houses must have an application filled out by the leader of the house at the time of its creation. Characters joining a noble house also have an application to fill, though it's not as intensive as creating the house. It also ensures that permission was given for the character to be created by the leader of the noble house.

This is also retroactive. Older noble houses must have the leader post the application and the members of the noble house post the one relevant to them up as well. However, you are able to continue RPing the nobles even as the application is up and pending, as we're not going to hold the characters back. This is more so we can have the house logged and provide them with a wiki page so that the leader may edit it as they wish provided the core information is still provided.

Applications for new noble houses and new noble characters are to go up with the character profile in the special profile section of the private discussion. Old houses and characters merely need to post their applications in the normal private discussion area, no profile needed unless a new character is joining the family. Old members need not worry about resposting their profiles.

Below are the applications needed for noble characters as well as how to get to the house listings.


Head of House: Who, ICly, is the leader of the house and makes the prime decisions.

How did the family rise to nobility? Give a bit of a summary here as to how the family rose above the rest to be deemed nobility? Did an ancestor sacrifice himself for the ruler of the time and this was the reward for the surviving family? Forged documents from ages ago that prove some sort of claim? Detail this as much as possible.

How does the family sustain its wealth? How does the family not fall to ruins with over-spending, what is their source of income?

What sort of assets does the family have? How big are the lands? What sort of structures are on said land? Do they have a guard force? Personal army? Fleet of ships? If an asset is not listed, it cannot be claimed, however a PD can be posted later asking if a new asset can be added.

What is the family known for? Is the family a group of cruel tax collectors that works their servants like dogs? Are they a military family the produces fine soldiers who rise in rank quickly? Magic users? What makes them known?

How old is the family? How long has the family been nobility?

What can be obtained by creating a new family over joining one already in existence? Simply put, what does this family bring that isn't provided by others? Activity is not an acceptable response. Note: Noble Families already approved do not need to answer this question.

Is the family open for members to join? If so, let them know how to contact you here as well as what you're looking for.


Do you agree, accept and will abide by the above: If yes, simply say yes. If no, explain why. A no answer can be held against the character and profile. Note that the above code section does not need to be in the application, only this question!



Head of House: Who, ICly, is the leader of the house and makes the prime decisions.

Do you have the leader's permission to make this character? You must have the current leaders permission in order to make a character for the family.

What relation is the character to the family? Are you the daughter of the heir? The step-brother of the head?

What powers/permissions does the character have? Are they allowed to order the guards around? Do they act as the head in the event of the leaders absence?


Do you agree, accept and will abide by the above: If yes, simply say yes. If no, explain why. A no answer can be held against the character and profile. Note that the above code section does not need to be in the application, only this question!


What's this about a wiki page?

Noble houses will have a page for the house on the wiki so that others who are looking around can see what's available and join one if membership is open. Houses can also see who may be good to set up an alliance with. Rather than making a whole new house, some might even choose to join one that they might not have known about otherwise. Houses are split up by Horde and Alliance, and then further by race. Upon acceptance of an application, a wiki page will be created with the case info and then PMed to the house head so they may edit it as they like.

Here's how you get to the listings:

Step one:


Step Two:


Step Three:


Here is an example on what can be done with a Noble House wiki page. I threw up info on my own noble house as an example of the type of stuff you'll see, how to present the information and how to organize it.

That is all I have for this announcement. While I know a few of you may groan over more applications, it will help in the long run.

Love,
The GM team.

I was wondering what made Nobles special and such, I've been wanting to make one as my first alt so I'm glad I read this!

Now... I did want changes to the noble system, but I am not a fan of how it was handled.

(12-16-2013, 10:27 PM)cartoonkarl Wrote: [ -> ]Now... I did want changes to the noble system, but I am not a fan of how it was handled.

If you have constructive feedback or criticism, this is the thread to do it. We're open to suggestions.

I've a question! Do we get benefits from this? Meaning---while we have to cite these holdings and the like, could we reasonably say, control a faction of NPC's in an area? Obviously nothing large---but it would be fun to see some "Thelwind" guards or something that we could attribute to that milling about some key locations.

Just a thought, and some creative/constructive feedback. I only bring this up because right now it seems this system is more a way to say "Hey, stop doing that" than to any real benefit to the community.

You win this round, cheese GM.

Having a noble I've always RP'ed like it could be lost at a moment's notice. This is more character-specific because Valda Winters hasn't been one long enough to take it for granted. It's very much still a scary thing to her. I'm glad my own disposition aligns with this new policy.

However, I am somewhat disappointed with such a negative point of view on the Argent Crusade specifically. While I do agree, understand and support it OOCly, I've never came across that prejudice ICly. I assume that would be common knowledge. Perhaps the staff can wrangle down some racial specific expectations for Noble Houses?

I definitely like it. Not being a noble myself, it really does help at the idea of recording all the noble houses on the wiki and some-such. That, to me, makes the RP all the more inviting and easier to get involved with, while those apps are indeed very thorough and adequately so.

Give this change a thumbs-up.

@Ural I believe it's stated that interacting with someone outside of their faction APART from in settings like the Argent Crusade is frowned upon, not in the Argent Crusade!

(The forum ate my first draft of this post. Might have forgotten something, so please excuse edits.)

Hmm. The idea of collating all noble houses seems useful in providing people with opportunities to interact and get involved with them.

As nobility was deemed too easy to obtain, does that mean that applicants may face denial under this new system? If so, what are the grounds for an application being refused, and what are the qualifications for a successful application? If there are no conditions as such, which factors will the team be looking at when assessing applications?

There certainly was no system in place to contact the authorities in light of nobles behaving badly, but I believe that it was slightly better that way. It makes more sense to contact the player of the noble house, contact the GMs, and work something reasonable out between all involved parties. Although it is stated that consequences are now more dire and present, the details are never quite explained, and there appear to be no clear guidelines for handling such matters.

The 'monitoring' spoken of leaves me feeling somewhat uneasy. What does this monitoring entail, and to what lengths will the GMs go to stay informed about the business of noble houses and characters? Does this include observing their roleplay invisibly or asking them to give reports regarding house-related actions which may land them in hot water? Are they, by agreeing to these terms, consenting to keep an open hand of cards at all times, so to speak?

What of existing nobles? Are noble-players, some of whom may well have been playing their characters for years, now obliged to consent to this monitoring at the risk of their characters' legitimacy being called into question? Although I play no noble characters, supposing I'd created one last year, would the character be locked if I refused to submit an application/agree to the terms? What happens if I create a new noble character? Are we obligated to consent to being observed, either directly or indirectly?

Regarding other players reporting the unbecoming actions of nobles ICly, what guarantee do we have that such things will be handled impartially? It is stated that reports can be contested, but to what extent can a case be fought? As matters stand, players cannot best guards controlled by GMs. Is the same true of lawyers and judges controlled by GMs? Can a jury be swayed? Can NPCs accept bribes, or be subdued by sufficient charm?

In what manner will a harmed reputation (in the case of interracial relationships or other taboos) affect a noble house? How would this be enforced?

Quote:Noble characters seen violating laws, publicly bragging about murders or other such things will be brought in for IC questioning and face consequences depending on what can be proven. ‘Not being there’ will not be a shield.

The Oblivion guardsman approach. Why will nobles be subjected to OOCly heavy-handed detainment, but not other criminals? Why isn't going into hiding a viable course of action after being caught in the act of a crime? Running away is often regarded as an admission of guilt, so the house may still face consequences such as asset liquidation in the event that the head's seen slitting a throat and then mysteriously vanishes. Heh, I think the onus should be on the guards to prove how they tracked down a noble on the run, personally. It'd make for some amusing scenarios.

I would have taken this in a different direction, personally. I understand that things occur which are beyond the team's control once a concept gets a green light, and it's easier for them to simply place ground rules beforehand than mop up a mess after the fact. Although I recognise that restrictions are put in place to hinder those individuals who pulled personal armies and fortunes out of their pockets, I'd have simply left it open and dealt with such abuses as and when they cropped up. If there are instances where people cannot be trusted with the liberties they're allowed, I feel they ought to be shown the right way of doing something as opposed to having blinders installed in the creative process. Positive guidance instead of negative restriction.

@Harmonic: I'm not sure what you mean by the faction of NPC guards, but part of the purpose of this revamp is to more clearly get an idea of just what sort of influence people want to have with their houses. In part to encourage people to give it more thought, to let the staff know what people lay claim to, and to make building relationships between houses easier if you can take advantage of eachothers' weaknesses and strengths in order to weave intrigue between different families that have different realms of "power", so to speak.

... This also gives the houses opportunity to make claims like NPC guard forces and the like and have them right there on paper, in writing, approved by the team with exact numbers and details. In a way, this lets the houses actually make real claims unlike before where there was no defined line for what kinds of resources a noble house could rightfully claim beyond... wealth, space and prestige, so to speak.

Does that help at all? It's a bit fuzzy to put into few words, I admit.

---

I also heard some concern off the forum about the requirement for an application to join an established house. Ideally, you'd submit this together with your Profile if you're making a new character to join a house, but otherwise the application's purpose is to make sure you go through the necessary steps. That is, you get permission from the one who created the house, and you create a role for yourself that you define from the get-go and detail your individual responsibilities and privileges within that house, as a singular Noble Character as opposed to part of the bigger body. What resources are or aren't available to you, specifically.

---

loldoublepost

@Delta: Those are very real and valid concerns. Give us a bit and we'll get back to you, but I can say right away that the intention wasn't to start spying on people, no. It was more to make people aware of the consequences for Nobility in case they stepped out of line, as it has been difficult to enforce in the past with there being some sort of illusion of invincibility. Of course, there's always the opportunity to hide or cover up just like with every other crime or mistake, but when it comes to Nobility as opposed to other criminals, they stand threatened to lose part of their character concept (the Nobility itself) if they don't exercise caution. ... Meaning they lose the privileges they profiled/applied for.

Hope that helps a little bit, before we finish discussing your points.

@Rowgen - Apparently I was not awake when I read that. Thanks for clearing that up!

Orwellian GMs trying to mess with my noble roleplay. /grumblegrumble

Bah. And I was hoping I could just sit back after that other post. Ah well.

I didn't want that noble anyway.

Regarding the application to join a noble house. Does that mean people who would have power inside it or people who are hired? Like in the case of Jerico Caldwell who is technically just an employee for now. Will the characters like that need to fill out the application and do they have to do it if they are already in the guild?

If this was already answered let me know.