04-22-2014, 09:49 PM
I hope to do a series of discussions in hopes to round out RP more. This is based off of some complaints regarding stagnancy happening in CotH despite progress in forwarding lore, reworking policies, and trying new ideas. Well, one thing I hope to cover is a little something I'm certain many players in the server would like to discuss.
Spoilers are personal reflections and how it connects with the topic I hope to talk about. You can skip it if you don't want TL;DR.
I'm fairly certain the lot of us would like to have a character whom other players can recognize even if they never met. A soldier who earned many medals from the Wars; the thief whom the City Guard can never catch; the orc who cleaved a thousand skulls in battle; a wiseman tauren whom many pupils far and wide flock to for guidance. Sure, we can put this in our character's history, but how often can we "show" the fame in RP without resorting to NPCs shilling for us? Very rarely, if ever. Often times the best way of getting that kind of fame needs the player to be popular in certain circles (so the players can spread that fame to their other characters), but that can be rather unfair for new players or older veterans who just happen to be around less often (or are too busy to devote a lot of time to build up RP fame). And God forbid the timezones don't match.
One danger of trying to establish fame IC is forcing that fame upon other players, especially if that fame is constructed by the player him/herself and even more especially if that character isn't profiled. We've met the occasional braggart. Sure, RPing a Miles Gloriosus type of character is fun in its own way, and they make for great comedy and conflict RP. But what if that player wants to back those claims up by showing he has an army of 50,000, can snap an orc's arm off in a game of arm wrestling, and had threesomes with women every Friday. Exaggerated as this example is, the point is, these types of characters are obnoxious even if you dumb down the exaggeration itself. But maybe you do want to RP a famous casanova yet not one player will allow your man's man to sleep with their female toon. You throw a fit. You call CotH stagnant and mundane and quit because "nothing happens".
I'd like to hear (well, read) your thoughts and ideas regarding establishing IC fame/infamy. Do you think the character should write out the accomplishments in the profile only and then trust the other players would pick up on it? Do you think other players should start out small and build their fame through RP only? Do you think whispering exposition to the other player is enough? Or do you feel some other means of establishing fame/infamy can be done another way?
IC Fame and Infamy
How can we claim it? How do we accept it?
How can we claim it? How do we accept it?
Spoilers are personal reflections and how it connects with the topic I hope to talk about. You can skip it if you don't want TL;DR.
Spoiler:
I will not say names, but you know who you are. Not long ago, arguably my most popular human character, Dr. Dino, was given a rather unexpected and violent form of retirement. While I know it did sadden/shock some players, in reality, I planned Dino's retirement to be violent since his CotH creation 2011--he was a "live by the sword, die by the sword" kind of guy. Regardless, Dino wasn't intended to be as popular as he was... at least how I intended.
The actual intention I wanted was IC infamy, not an affection fandom. Dino was among the Alterac traitors in the Second War, and one with war crimes that should have, by all means, deserve execution from the Alliance. Having players simply accept that and see him as a criminal to capture, however, ended up being forced, and one player who doesn't come to CotH anymore gave me insight on why--attitudes towards a character should be done on a "show" basis, not "tell". Which is absolutely true. So I gave up trying to incite RP in having Dino arrested for his war crimes by having him captured for his present crimes. Because he wasn't an active Red Glove criminal anymore, I had Dino be hired. He did get captured once, but I had him escape because I promised folks I'd toss him in a survival event, where he ended up being more heroic than villainous because, well, he was the only doctor there. He got friends there. And more friends after. And the rest is history.
I would have kept Dino alive to continue RPing the only non-priest doctor in the server, but to be frank, I wasn't happy with how much IC love he was getting. The character, although with a dorky silly side, was intended to be repulsive and disliked for his nasty attitude and terrible bedside manner. Maybe I made him too likeable. Maybe I focused on his good sides too much. Maybe I didn't play up his racism and sexism enough. Regardless, whatever it is, I decided to let the character go--at least for now--until I get a better idea on what kind of goals I can have for the character. Should we get a major server restart, or some months pass and I decide to appeal for a resurrection, I hope to retool the character completely to a character I hope would get the kind of RP relationships I hope to aim for.
But if there is one element I do hope to work on, it's getting him fame. If I can't get him infamy and repulsion, then perhaps I can aim for more positive fame in that he's a non-magic using doctor (his class is a rogue). However, I fear he won't get any kind of fame accepted IC like when I first rolled him; the population of CotH today is different from three years ago, and there is no guarantee I can RP Dino with everyone like I did long ago.
The problem doesn't lie on just Dino too. Another character whom I hope to have pre-established fame for is Jyovani, a theater actor. I was okay with him being unknown and low-key, but the problem with the character is that, although he's a wallflower at home and off the stage, onstage, he's larger than life. Give him the role of hero, a villain, or even a sidekick, he'll steal the show (or at least aim for it). I've had a couple of opportunities to play out this element of the character, but these often die down due to 1.) running out of time in the event or 2.) OOC stepping down in favor of letting other players have the limelight. So once more, his acting background will have to be a "tell" than a "show", so attaining credibility in his fame is also hard to do.
The actual intention I wanted was IC infamy, not an affection fandom. Dino was among the Alterac traitors in the Second War, and one with war crimes that should have, by all means, deserve execution from the Alliance. Having players simply accept that and see him as a criminal to capture, however, ended up being forced, and one player who doesn't come to CotH anymore gave me insight on why--attitudes towards a character should be done on a "show" basis, not "tell". Which is absolutely true. So I gave up trying to incite RP in having Dino arrested for his war crimes by having him captured for his present crimes. Because he wasn't an active Red Glove criminal anymore, I had Dino be hired. He did get captured once, but I had him escape because I promised folks I'd toss him in a survival event, where he ended up being more heroic than villainous because, well, he was the only doctor there. He got friends there. And more friends after. And the rest is history.
I would have kept Dino alive to continue RPing the only non-priest doctor in the server, but to be frank, I wasn't happy with how much IC love he was getting. The character, although with a dorky silly side, was intended to be repulsive and disliked for his nasty attitude and terrible bedside manner. Maybe I made him too likeable. Maybe I focused on his good sides too much. Maybe I didn't play up his racism and sexism enough. Regardless, whatever it is, I decided to let the character go--at least for now--until I get a better idea on what kind of goals I can have for the character. Should we get a major server restart, or some months pass and I decide to appeal for a resurrection, I hope to retool the character completely to a character I hope would get the kind of RP relationships I hope to aim for.
But if there is one element I do hope to work on, it's getting him fame. If I can't get him infamy and repulsion, then perhaps I can aim for more positive fame in that he's a non-magic using doctor (his class is a rogue). However, I fear he won't get any kind of fame accepted IC like when I first rolled him; the population of CotH today is different from three years ago, and there is no guarantee I can RP Dino with everyone like I did long ago.
The problem doesn't lie on just Dino too. Another character whom I hope to have pre-established fame for is Jyovani, a theater actor. I was okay with him being unknown and low-key, but the problem with the character is that, although he's a wallflower at home and off the stage, onstage, he's larger than life. Give him the role of hero, a villain, or even a sidekick, he'll steal the show (or at least aim for it). I've had a couple of opportunities to play out this element of the character, but these often die down due to 1.) running out of time in the event or 2.) OOC stepping down in favor of letting other players have the limelight. So once more, his acting background will have to be a "tell" than a "show", so attaining credibility in his fame is also hard to do.
I'm fairly certain the lot of us would like to have a character whom other players can recognize even if they never met. A soldier who earned many medals from the Wars; the thief whom the City Guard can never catch; the orc who cleaved a thousand skulls in battle; a wiseman tauren whom many pupils far and wide flock to for guidance. Sure, we can put this in our character's history, but how often can we "show" the fame in RP without resorting to NPCs shilling for us? Very rarely, if ever. Often times the best way of getting that kind of fame needs the player to be popular in certain circles (so the players can spread that fame to their other characters), but that can be rather unfair for new players or older veterans who just happen to be around less often (or are too busy to devote a lot of time to build up RP fame). And God forbid the timezones don't match.
One danger of trying to establish fame IC is forcing that fame upon other players, especially if that fame is constructed by the player him/herself and even more especially if that character isn't profiled. We've met the occasional braggart. Sure, RPing a Miles Gloriosus type of character is fun in its own way, and they make for great comedy and conflict RP. But what if that player wants to back those claims up by showing he has an army of 50,000, can snap an orc's arm off in a game of arm wrestling, and had threesomes with women every Friday. Exaggerated as this example is, the point is, these types of characters are obnoxious even if you dumb down the exaggeration itself. But maybe you do want to RP a famous casanova yet not one player will allow your man's man to sleep with their female toon. You throw a fit. You call CotH stagnant and mundane and quit because "nothing happens".
Spoiler:
And before you go "geez, that never happened to me", trust me. As a GM who's been in the server for three years, it happens more often than I wish it would. Usually the player tries to establish fame either through gloryhogging events or whispers saying "Oh, my character created these great inventions whom all of Ironforge should know. You should puppet Mekkatorque and acknowledge me <3."
I'd like to hear (well, read) your thoughts and ideas regarding establishing IC fame/infamy. Do you think the character should write out the accomplishments in the profile only and then trust the other players would pick up on it? Do you think other players should start out small and build their fame through RP only? Do you think whispering exposition to the other player is enough? Or do you feel some other means of establishing fame/infamy can be done another way?
Spoiler:
My own thoughts: I'm cool with pre-established fame, especially through the Special Profile system. What I don't like is forcing the player to accept it, especially if that player is new and unfamiliar with me. And even if that character isn't a Special, I'm cool with other forms of fame and infamy.
Trust is the biggest element for me as a player as well as a GM. If you want to play that casanova, even if you don't know how to RP out that charm, you can ask for help from me as a player in how to RP out that charm, as I have a handful of girls who'd be more than happy to cave into your casanova's wiles. The same goes for your villain looking for victims to claim or your hero for villains to defeat. If you have a character goal, I'm more than happy to provide, even if I end up being just a notch on the counting pole. What I don't want is forcing me to accept a past accomplishment if you know I don't know it, and especially if I don't know you. I don't care if your gnome is the smartest of all of Azeroth or your tauren DK the most dangerous beast to all living creatures, please don't ask me to have Mekkatorque and Baine acknowledge you.
Trust is the biggest element for me as a player as well as a GM. If you want to play that casanova, even if you don't know how to RP out that charm, you can ask for help from me as a player in how to RP out that charm, as I have a handful of girls who'd be more than happy to cave into your casanova's wiles. The same goes for your villain looking for victims to claim or your hero for villains to defeat. If you have a character goal, I'm more than happy to provide, even if I end up being just a notch on the counting pole. What I don't want is forcing me to accept a past accomplishment if you know I don't know it, and especially if I don't know you. I don't care if your gnome is the smartest of all of Azeroth or your tauren DK the most dangerous beast to all living creatures, please don't ask me to have Mekkatorque and Baine acknowledge you.
I also apologize for pretty much repeating what others say.. >.> Sometimes I feel like 'Liking' just doesn't always do it.