Cliques and Closed RP
Finding RP Despite Small Numbers
I'm not going to bother with my own personal opinion/reflection lest I cause a minor flame war, though if you want it, just IM me.
This is inspired by
Geoni's thread regarding what prompts folks to come out and RP. Among what turns folks off is the perception of cliques and closed RP, or whenever RP is offered, they're declined. A lot of this factors into just how small CotH is as a population; rarely do we top 10s-20s in one day. Others can be genuine problems with breaking in a new character or after a long absence, especially if one is unfamiliar with the population and the trend of the day.
However, from what I observed, what defines these problems tend to clash and create even more problems, or they don't take to consideration the nature of the closed RP. This includes logging on when only two players are on and they're playing lovers; a family in a private home; a small group lost in a shut-in cave where finding someone else in there would make no sense; prisoners in a secret hideout; and so forth. Asking for all RP to be open and accessible to everyone at all times at every given time is genuinely unrealistic, and one must remember that not everyone enjoys RP with 3+ people in one scenario.
There is also the perception on what is truly "closed" RP. More often than not, when casual non-event/guild RPs between folks in a public setting is going on, it's implicitly open--all you have to do is ask if you can join. From all my experiences, the "clique" RP is honestly open and the players more than willing to let in newcomers, especially new players or veterans breaking in a newly rolled toon. What I usually observe is less declining of newcomers and more on the invited player either refusing to join because "it's not their thing", the player character just sitting in the corner before leaving, or just not try to fit in altogether. I am not putting the blame entirely onto the incoming character, though, (inadvertently leaving the newcomer out in the RP is a recurring problem too), but this can be simply solved by asking OOC for a bit of help to fit the character in more in that particular RP situation.
So here is where I ask the questions, breaking down the topic to something more specific. How do you define "clique" RP exactly? Private RP between friends? Storyline RP you cannot enter? RPs where your character (or you) are left out, even if you were invited to RP? And how are all these a problem for you, specifically? Does RP in CotH not match your playstyle? Do you have problems with trends that are allowed to go on? Are all the people playing X race and not X race instead?
Please keep this thread regarding RPing with players as they are rather than policies, rules, and what is/isn't allowed in the server--that's not what this topic is about. It's about players logging in and finding RP but not getting it, or refusing RP when invited despite looking for RP in the first place.
Green is a pretty color.
How do you define "clique" RP exactly? Private RP between friends? Storyline RP you cannot enter? RPs where your character (or you) are left out, even if you were invited to RP? And how are all these a problem for you, specifically?
A bit ago I posted into the "[CotH-aluation] The Community" thread about how I thought the community was a little cliquey and by that I meant that it seemed to me that certain players only liked to play with certain other players and stick with those people only as opposed to branching out and joining other players or inviting people they hadn't really played with. That is what I define as "clique" RP, RP that only takes place with certain people and those people only.
Honestly, this really doesn't happen a lot though. CotH is pretty awesomely open to whoever wants to join in on events, guilds or general RP so long as they meet pre-requisites for any of those and even then, most people are pretty accepting of whoever wants in as long as it isn't too out of the way. (A Horde soldier fighting with the Alliance against the Horde doesn't exactly make a lot of sense.)
Private RP is important though. You're character needs some private time with their significant other or family or friend. Even private conflict is good as it fuels a fighting fire for your character. Storyline RP requires the story to move along and having to introduce new characters every couple of minutes as people join can hinder the story. I am completely fine with Private RP or RP excluding others so long as it's for RP purposes and not consciously denying others just because you don't like that individual.
I honestly think the people who have this notion that they are being left out from all of CotH's "cliques" are the same people who are pretty passive when it comes to joining in RP. Rather than asking if they can join in, they just assume they will get sent an invite or asked if they would like to join in.
Just a CotH noob's 2 cents. I don't know if that even made sense since I'm typing this after an insomnia induced all-nighter.
Yeah I agree that clique RP would be players who only RP with specific players, and we've discussed that before how that's a potential problem. But they're friends, and have similar schedules that's another thing to take into consideration. I don't think I've ever experienced people outwardly being rude about Rping with someone unless that person had pet peeve irking attributes, ( like breaking the fourth wall, Mary Sue or the like i.e which are different for every player ) or personality conflicts. But there are people on the server I don't necessarily agree with, or like but I still have no problem RPing with them if they're a good RPer. I've made a couple of friends that way.
Most things have been said, people coming into storylines or private situations when it is illogical is a bad idea. CoTh used to be more active and tighter knit where we knew most of each other's alts and talked in chat frequently between multiple RP sessions. So people were less apprehensive to join RP, we were just mad it was always in a goblin town. But even then there were 'Clique' issues. However I like this quote Kretol had in his signature one time I can't remember it but it was along the lines of, you should make reasons for your character to be there instead of reasons why they cant be there. These are our characters. Nelf out of Ashenvale? Maybe she's meeting someone, hunting something specific or has to retrieve something far for a family member instead of ( this person can't go there because xyz ) same thing could be said about seemingly illogical entrances, ( Perhaps a thief broke into your couple's house, or hiding out for pursuers, or maybe they're a merc who over heard your story line, or a relative ). It's better to involve people than not especially with our RP population, however don't show up and be stagnant, interact and ask questions OOCly. If you enter a normally closed RP you should try your best to show up.
Clique Rp can be bad for the people in the clique too. Because they will only want to RP with their clique. I've watched people stay logged on GMI for hours waiting on a specific player before they began RP, instead of RPing until that person logged on. I suggest joining every active guild and meet the players on the server. So when they have alts or are in different RP you can feel more inclined to join. Support our Guilds.
(05-21-2014, 08:24 AM)Jonoth Wrote: [ -> ] (05-21-2014, 07:45 AM)ThePharaoh Wrote: [ -> ]However I like this quote Kretol had in his signature one time I can't remember it but it was along the lines of, you should make reasons for your character to be there instead of reasons why they cant be there.
It was:
Quote:Try to never just say, "My character isn't interested in that adventure." A lot of people mistake this for good roleplaying, because you are asserting your character's personality. Wrong. Good roleplaying should never bring the game to a screeching halt. One of your jobs as a player is to come up with a reason why your character would be interested in a plot. After all, your personality is entirely in your hands, not the DM's. Come up with a reason why the adventure (or the reward) might appeal to you, no matter how esoteric or roundabout the reasoning.
I love Kreet's signature. It really sets the tone for the server at large. We make acceptable breaks from plausibility for the sake of actually going out and *doing the RP*.
As for clique ness, I think the "issue" is really overrated, and people who choose to RP with a few individuals can't really complain. And really, the community isn't near as exclusive as "clique" implies, at least in my experience. I, personally, don't have a lot of opportunities these days to sit down and have a good, uninterrupted RP session, and when I do, I try to let my characters get some progress in their relationships. This doesn't at all mean that I don't want to play with others, but if I am, it's prolly going to be while I'm RPing with some long-time RP partners.
But is a focus on so few characters even that bad? I mean, RP is fun, but most of my best experiences come out of +10-20 hours of acting out character relationships. You need some in-game time to progress these stories.
That being said, I'm always happy to see new characters come in when Flora's derping it up with Cristo. Just shoot someone a quick PM to make sure it's not totally private, and drop in on existing RP.
That being said, I'm again going to bring up the suggestion for more faction-neutral areas. Right now, we can't really afford to split up our population. That being said, there's no reason it can't still have a racial identity. The unicorn ranch idea could have a clear elven identity with some held NPCs spawned around, but could provide a neutral service.
We could have many races make a pilgrimage to the Shrine of Goldrinn.
(05-20-2014, 09:09 PM)ImagenAshyun Wrote: [ -> ]What I usually observe is less declining of newcomers and more on the invited player either refusing to join because "it's not their thing", the player character just sitting in the corner before leaving, or just not try to fit in altogether. I am not putting the blame entirely onto the incoming character, though, (inadvertently leaving the newcomer out in the RP is a recurring problem too), but this can be simply solved by asking OOC for a bit of help to fit the character in more in that particular RP situation.
Here come my harsh and unpopular opinions.
I've been the one in the corner sometimes, and I feel like it's not my fault either. It's not about 'making an excuse to involve the character more' and more about the particular characters (and players, since people don't separate themselves from their characters well sometimes) in the RP being too interested in established relationships to even give a new character a glimpse. And for the new character, it's difficult to enter a conversation between characters if it's very specific and deeply rooted in their past relationships. And more often than not I don't think it's the characters that are ignoring the new character, it's the players who are ignoring him or her. This is the element of circles that is bad for the server and turns a lot of new players away, not the other 'circle' types of things like the circles nesting in a skype group or people who always like each other's posts. You could argue that the new player/character should push himself to try and build a relationship with those characters, but often times it's the people in the circle who are unwilling to meet halfway.
Another problem I've experienced is that some characters are worshiped. Often mains of people who are popular on the server end up getting all of the attention both ICly and OOCly. I'll admit that this is one of those things that turned my stomach when I came back in 2012ish, and it continued to bother me as we moved on to Cata. For some reason character worship was a big thing during that year but has died down a little. But I still see it here and there and it bothers me a little when I do. This little complaint of mine might seem trivial, but those moments of character worship were the defining moments that made me think, 'Damn, some of the players on this server are coming off as circle-ish and narcissistic'. I not a fan of labeling, but that's honestly what players come off as when they act like that.
And I guess I'm the odd one out, because I've really never agreed with Kretol's quote in his signature. It's not bad RP to know when your character just isn't right for a RP. Sometimes, they really aren't going to be and if you try to force them to find an excuse that contrasts to their purposes and personality, it's going to come off as artificial and the RP is going to be boring. My own way of combating this is being an altoholic. I need to create characters so that they can fit into that RP that another character wouldn't, so that the RP doesn't feel forced. The quote has a good point about forcing one's self to make an excuse, but there's only so far you can go with excuses sometimes, I think.
Quote:Are all the people playing X race and not X race instead?
Often the problem, and is a problem rooted in flavors of the month and there not being a large enough population for there to be more than one flavor at a time on the server. There's no way to fix this unless we can increase our active population somehow.