Well, For awhile I have listened about Death Knights on the server. I recently had a few fights that involved a DK being on our side. Because the other team sadly lost and mostly died. They complained about how DK's were Over-Powered. I do not believe this. It would probably be different if they were on the winning side. But blizzard set out the talents and abilities in fairness and those were all the abilities that a DK would have. Now it is just a fad because it is the new content that is available at this point. But I hear alot about how they are so fun to play yet so over-powered? So I wanted to know how some other players felt about them.
The GM's obviously reviewed all the new content before making at available. So if it was really that OP they would not allow it, would they?
One thing that people might claim the death knights are over-powered over is probably that a few players are stealing people's souls with their rune blades, making people fear to go near death knights as soul stealing would make it impossible to give your character their one resurrection. For this reason they do -not- suck people's souls beyond the wielder's.
Other than that, which shouldn't happen anyway, they'd be no more overpowered than a paladin.
Mikain Wrote:One thing that people might claim the death knights are over-powered over is probably that a few players are stealing people's souls with their rune blades, making people fear to go near death knights as soul stealing would make it impossible to give your character their one resurrection. For this reason they do -not- suck people's souls beyond the wielder's.
Other than that, which shouldn't happen anyway, they'd be no more overpowered than a paladin.
Well, I see that as being one of the big factors in the fear and apparent 'Over-Powered' aspect of Death knights. I recently made one. Even if it was possible to steal souls I wouldn't. If someone can get resurrected without whispering a priest nearby or something along those lines. Go for it. But it is probably the fact that the spell 'Army of the Dead' exists. Because it gives the ability to raise corpses that we work for. But I guess it is all just opinion.
I personally hate the way Death Knights are being played on the server. The non-Ebon Death Knights are being used in a fashion that they weren't meant to be. People seem to believe that they're evil killing machines and I get the "Alistus Usurper" feel from a lot of them (And many of the recent Raven Hill villains as well, Kaelvan). If they're played right they work, if not they're Mary Sue-ish characters. Most PUR EBUL KILAR characters edge the Mary Sue line, or even are straight up Mary Sues.
Edit: This is a rant. Also, it's to all of you people who are trying to become "The next Alistus." He was never the god-like villain people make him out to be, so you shouldn't be either.
In my opinion, from the fights I've seen, they are used in a way that grants them more power than that is fair. Most magic-using classes have a tendency to do this. Death Knights, in particular are pretty tough. They are warriors in a sense, and mages in another. People tend to forget their Achilles' tendon: Holy. Paladins and things like that naturally work against Death Knights, so in that case it is fair. I'd like to see Death Knights who plan on mass murdering, to acknowledge their weakness, and to emphasize that Unholy, and Frost magic is tiring work. (Blood is another story, I think.)
To sum it all up, I'm saying that Death-Knights, are innately Over powered if Role-played carelessly. Just taking a bit more notice to what your doing, and how long you have been doing it should help. (Not accusing anybody, but taking these steps should really make it more fair.)
- Addition - I say they are overpowered because of their ability to raise a small army at will. Besides that, it's a given that they are just as physically powerful, if not more than a hardened warrior. If one isn't in RP, I think they give the impression.
Welp, it's my opinion that any class can be used properly and too the same level of lethality as any other class. I was one of the people sapping souls, and if it is banned then I'm sorry about that, I was unaware, and will stop that.
However, it is worth pointing out that I do not need to steal your soul to deprive you of that resurrection, as Alistus pointed out, all that really needs to happen is have your corpse maimed up badly after you're dead. Also, since I am aware of the one who made this argument. I will point out that they walked into an enemy zone, with no backup, against two Death Knights and their minions. It is my opinion that you cannot expect a fair battle running into an enemy encampment with those sort of odds stacked against you.
Also, you cannot simply raise a small army at will. Army of the Dead should only be used when there is a ready supply of corpses laying around for use.
Anyhow, my two cents, personally I feel every class can be used to the same effectiveness as a Death Knight.
Yes, all valid points. I totally agree with Vrahn. A group of unprepared people tried to rush two death knights and minions. We specifically brought corpses for defensive purposes. But they insisted on fighting us. One thing though, The paladin they had in their party didnt even use his holy powers on the massive undead forces that were there. They might have stood a better chance. Another thing about rogue Death Knights. It may seem like they are all slaughter machines. But where else do we have to go? I think it was Mikain who made a DK that hunted down the rogue DK's. I love that idea. I would make my death knight to be something of that sort if it wern't for the fact my DK is a blood elf who couldn't communicate very well. Now, last but not least.. If the Ebon blade sent Death Knight's back to their respective factions.. and the horde and alliance are at war. Why would the Ebon blade send them? They would eventually just slaughter each other..
Actually, that is Rensin I believe with the Death Knight hunter. XD Also, I will note that Erythnal is not simply a mindless killing machine as it seems to be believed. But I have yet to get very many people try to delve into why Ery does what he does. Obviously he can't go around killing everything single person that passes by, who would want to RP with a character that does that?
The sapping of Souls is a power that actually belongs to only two -swords-, not Deathknights in general, The Frostmourne, and Gressil.
That aside, a Deathknight is, like everyone has said, only as strong as any other class. Logically, they can get to 80, like anyone else, and a warrior of the same level could defeat them. People could argue that Titan's grip is godmoding, so on and so forth.
Truth being, if someone plays the character right, someone plays the character right. If it's a Mary-Sueish type of whatever, honestly, we've seen that with Paladins and Warlocks as well. It -all- depends on the player, not the class.
And, actually, this is the reason we opened it up to grunts. If we felt this was an over powered class... we could have done something about that.
And, actually, I am -one- of the deathknight hunters. There are two others.
Iv'e noticed in the past few weeks that most characters on COTH are joining harbringers / death knights / chaotic evil, i was talking on vent about this, but, Perhaps the GMs should limit the DK numbers to a certain point?
If players want to drive the death knights from duskwood, i suggest you find paladins and priests.
Edit: Most evil characters are fine with me, but, they has been an increase in "I-want-to-take-over-the-world" characters latley.
Limit them? It is only possible to have one per account. So the Death Knight population can only get to a certain point before it slows down massively. But alot of people are getting gruntification recently. So that is why we are getting so many Death Knight's so fast. But as Rensin said. It isn't the class or the structure of the class. It is the player who plays it. I havn't seen an over-powered Death knight yet. The first case was probably because the group meta-gamed. Then called us OP and whined. Then said that when they are grunts they will magically make armies of undead. It pissed me off because there is alot more RP fighting going on. But with the increase of RP fights. There is an increase of annoyance and/or accusations.
This is my opinion...
Okay, yes Death Knights are overpowered. However, is there not a logical reason for that? They were once the chosen vassals of -the- Lich King. They were turned into Death Knights so to enhance their already present potential upon death. Then these ex-servants were taught the ins and outs of the Lich King's powers, and though they have a considerably less amount of power then the Lich King himself they are indeed still formidable.
Your average any other class, is not about to go around picking a fight with a Death Knight. Though they may indeed win, the Death Knight's chances are a bit more assuring.
Now, to this overpowered-ness add realism. A Death Knight is not going to be any less effected by spells or injuries than your average Foresaken. Cut their head off, they die (Easily done by any half wit warrior or rogue with determination). Cast a spell on them it hurts and possibly kills (The effect may infact be stronger due to the fact that they are now less physical and more spiritual, therefore more along the wave-length of magical attacks.)
Death Knights are -NOT- invincible or immune to pain. They can die (again) and as before stated a weilder of the light could hit them hard, and it is likely a decent Paladin could take one down single handedly.
Heh, I hope that helped! :P
Edit : Hm, Death Knight hunting you say? Walluce may have a new hobby XP
I think that death knights would have a higher loyalty to the Ebon Blade than their respective factions, the way Cartel members are more interested in Cartel affairs then say Orgrimmar or Stormwind only. And so wouldn't just off each other during a war between horde and alliance.
As for the army of the dead, there is no real way to translate that into rp, as you can't really just claim that corpses are walking around without an actual player, or pet, playing them. It gets a bit more complicated with things there that you can't see in-game.
And yes, a few of us are playing Ebon Blade affiliated knights who are basically trying to bring everyone back into the flock. If your knight is off randomly killing and we hear about them icly you can expect us to show up sometime and attempt to cart you back to Acherus for re-alignification, muahaha. Our attempt with this is to lessen the number of murderer characters, as stated above there are just so dang many, and it's understandable, join the killers and you won't be killed. But you're free to be evil if you want, that's fine, we aren't saying you can't be, or that there needs to be a limit.
Well.... to be fair, there is actually only two murderer Death Knights, so I don't know why people seem to think there are so many. Unless there is a bunch I haven't noticed. >.<
But of course. All of this is true. Though Erythnal and I didn't randomly find corpses. Those were all player's who tried to come and kill us. Though Deadwind pass does have alot of corpses. I am sure that we could also go to any old graveyard and rob them of bodies. Another thing is how we are so OP. Maybe we are. But it is the first hero class! We have to deal with it. I am certain they will come out with some cool races and maybe a class in the next expansion. Or they will introduce another class to balance it out. I dont know. It doesnt matter to me. I dont find them very OP. Though the way some of them are played and/or portrayed is.