After we talked it out, and seeing the debates and such spawned in the forums and on other's profiles, we've come to the conclusion that Alignments are -not- needed when creating a character. While it is a nice guideline to have when creating a character, we've found that it seldom sticks to a character for long, or just never comes into play.
Alignment is actually an outward perception placed onto a character for whatever reasons, and therefor is extremely hard to determine when not met with vices/virtues, or something similar. So, in short, the next time you make a profile, you do not need to include alignment anymore, but a lot of the guides and such will still be there in case you feel like using it as a base to shape your character.
Also, the wiki will be edited accordingly.
I can't help but see this change as not only ill-timed, but heavy-handed. I personally regard alignment as a vital tool for sculpting a character, and a yardstick for insuring my characters remains on track and act as they should. Additionally, as the debate on a Paladin's alignment and how it affects his or her powers has not yet been settled in a satisfactory way for all involved parties, I would argue that alignment is still an integral part of a Paladin's character until the debate is closed, whichever way it may fall.
Thus, until further notice, I formally protest this change.
Well, as I see it, I see no reason for you to not have your character's allignment in your head so you can RP it out for yourself.
Just some issues have lead to people having difficulty deciding an allignment, thus it's optional.
I can only assume this is what the GMs had in mind. Correct me if I'm wrong!
Personally, I feel that alignment is important not just for paladins, but for EVERYONE. It takes great skill to keep your character in his or her specific alignment, and I feel that demolishing that is sort of like saying, "Your character can waver whatever way their little heart desires! It's alright! Nobody wants to think out their characters actions anyway, it's too hard to do!"
Seriously, instead of washing our hands of alignments, we should be encouraging people to stick to them. Take an OOC note of the character's alignment by looking on the wiki the next time you RP with them. Talk to them about it, ask why they chose that alignment. That's what makes this a community, the ability to communicate together.
Kiffles Wrote:"Your character can waver whatever way their little heart desires! It's alright! Nobody wants to think out their characters actions anyway, it's too hard to do!"
I can see your point for most of it, but some characters can waver like that, alot of people can acually. Think of it in real life, you could be good or evil, chaotic or lawful. But some times call for desperate measures, or sometimes you just dont feel like adhering to that alignment and waver. I think this change could do more good then bad.
Kaelvan Wrote:I can see your point for most of it, but some characters can waver like that, alot of people can acually. Think of it in real life, you could be good or evil, chaotic or lawful. But some times call for desperate measures, or sometimes you just dont feel like adhering to that alignment and waver. I think this change could do more good then bad.
I think the point she was making is that people have the terrible habit of swinging from Chaotic Evil to Lawful Good, all in the span of 24 hours. Nobody swings that much -- nobody.
EDIT: I take that back. People with split-personality, or Jeckel and Hydes, might. Other than that, no.
Kiffles Wrote:I feel that demolishing that is sort of like saying, "Your character can waver whatever way their little heart desires! It's alright! Nobody wants to think out their characters actions anyway, it's too hard to do!"
Well, surely their personality gives away their intentions, right? The way I see an Allignment is simply one (or two) words simply defining their personality/intentions.
That's my 2 pennies anyway. But I don't mind if the Allignment is there or not, just giving out my thoughts here, so I'm just gonna drop it.
EDIT: Blarg, Kaelvan quoted the same quote as me! /shakefist
Besides split-personalities, Jecle and Hydes. There are always the Neutral category? Some people just -dont- care what they do, or what alignment it brands them as. They do what they do to get what they want, weather it is viewed as good or bad by the general public.
It doesn't really matter to me if there is alignment or not, because it isn't and shouldn't be the main focus of a character, the player can set an alignment and try to stick by it, but what is 'Lawful good for many, may be chaotic evil for some' Because everyones views are different, and the horde and alliance are definatly different in views. So it all depends on what your characters personality is.
Kiffles Wrote:Seriously, instead of washing our hands of alignments, we should be encouraging people to stick to them. Take an OOC note of the character's alignment by looking on the wiki the next time you RP with them. Talk to them about it, ask why they chose that alignment. That's what makes this a community, the ability to communicate together.
This is why we're not requiring it, because people -have- been reading alignments and expecting others to stick so close to them that to deviate in the slightest is sin and gives them the right to tell you how to play your character.
I think the decision came from the fact that there´s been instances where cplayers have been berating others if they do not strictly stick to their character´s alignment.
The problem with alignments is that most characters doesn´t fit into one, and often one finds their characters changing view over time etc.
This doesn´t say you shouldn´t develop a personality, we´re still gonna look at that and if it helps you to use the alignments to initially define the character, you are of course free to.
Edit: Yeah, kind of what Mik said, hehe.
Like I said, if you guys want to use Alignments as a guide, go right ahead. But a person is defined by their actions, and honestly Alignments can be pretty restrictive.
Let me put it this way, would you ever say in real life "I'm chaotic neutral!"?
Edit: To me, it is also part of the beratement going on, but mostly because these have been defining character almost -too- far. Krent's post in the paladin topic rings so very true, it made us rethink it.
I'm not going to discuss that thread outside of that thread, so as to avoid derailing other topics.
rentreality Wrote:I think the point she was making is that people have the terrible habit of swinging from Chaotic Evil to Lawful Good, all in the span of 24 hours. Nobody swings that much -- nobody.
Exactly! Your character can change, of course. People change. But when your character just suddenly does something out of the blue that's beyond all reasoning, it doesn't make sense. It's like an Orc who just loves Humans for no reason.
Either way, that's all I have to say. xD;; Working with kindergartners all morning drains your ability to debate.
I can see the reason for this. I can see the reason against this, too.
I don't even remember why it was a requirement in the first place. :S
I used to use the alignments to figure out whether certain characters might try to kill me!
Either way, I don't mind the change, I'm going to leave alignment in my profiles, or some form of it anyway.
