As a favor to my friend, a question about Tyrande

[Whorak]

Tyrande's cool. But you're right she's not flavorful like Illidan or something.

Maiev is better .

Personally my favorite hero would be Kael'Thas (That was until they changed his voice in WoW. I liked it more when he was in WC3)

[FlootsyGaz]

A human teaching her patience. Bleh.

Wait, what?

[Nymus]

A human teaching her patience. Bleh.

Wait, what?

I believe this is the one (ripped from WoWWiki):

Landfall

Tyrande and a cadre of rangers join the Alliance forces landing on Pandaria. While there, she and her rangers begin to pursue a Horde party and eventually find them holed up in the Temple of the Red Crane. In the A Little Patience scenario, Tyrande is urging King Varian Wrynn to take decisive action and charge the temple by force, before the Horde can completely fortify themselves or be rescued by reinforcements. However, Varian decided to take a more cautious approach and was able to lure out the Horde army from the Temple of the Red Crane and decimate them with the Alliance's hidden traps. The victory resulted in the annihilation of the Horde army and its commander with minimal to no casualties for the Alliance. After attaining victory, Tyrande acknowledges the wisdom of Varian's strategy and becomes impressed by Varian's leadership. Tyrande then pledges the night elves' support to Varian's command.

Tyrande is later seen in the Shrine of Seven Stars summit, where Alliance dignitaries and allies discuss the pros and cons of using the Sha. She was horrified by the Sha's dark power and proposed to destroy them.

[therew]

General Consensus: BESIDES THAT ONE TIME AGAINST GROM IN ASHENVALE, Tyrande sucks.

So...we almost agree with your friend?

Yes, almost. The way He sees it in ashenvale was that the night elves attacked the orcs with 0 attempts at peace before attacking so they fully deserved grom going full demon blood on them and killing cenarius, and that Groms actions are much more understandable and forgivable because he grew up fighting. Grom being consistent and a very 0 Bull shit character. I think he hates Cenarius almost as much as he hates Tyrande.

Personally I am surprised that there are nearly no Tyrande supporters among coth. Personally I have always hated her, manipulative head strong judgemental idiot who should have died long ago. To compare her to Hellscream, she and he do have a fair bit in common but I think the real big difference is that Hellscream comes across to me as not an idiot but just misguided. He has no fear of battle and will do anything to win. That attitude has screwed him and his people many of times but I never got the impression that he was doing what he was doing for personal glory but for the horde. Which is why I like him over Tyrande, she seems to do things for tyrande.

[FlyingSquirrel]

... I like her. She plays the role she's supposed to, as the lead of an Amazon-esque band of warriors. I think that all that she is nowadays is a step for other leaders to wipe their boots on (cough cough Varian), but I think that she does what she's supposed to, as a character, well.

And also, therew, she doesn't do things for herself. If everything were for herself, she'd have retired by now and be living some simple life in the country side with Malfurion. The whole thing about Grom is that he is leading his people, and she is the same. She's not doing so as a personal thing of proving how good she is; she's leading her people because she's the person who they will follow.

[Mathias]

Yes, almost. The way He sees it in ashenvale was that the night elves attacked the orcs with 0 attempts at peace before attacking so they fully deserved grom going full demon blood on them and killing cenarius, and that Groms actions are much more understandable and forgivable because he grew up fighting. Grom being consistent and a very 0 Bull shit character. I think he hates Cenarius almost as much as he hates Tyrande.

He has no fear of battle and will do anything to win. That attitude has screwed him and his people many of times but I never got the impression that he was doing what he was doing for personal glory but for the horde. Which is why I like him over Tyrande, she seems to do things for tyrande.

See, that would work, if it wasn't for the fact that Grom -did- only fight to win. Not for the Horde. He saw an enemy and wanted to win. That's it. That's why Grom attacked the humans first after Thrall specifically told him "Don't". If he wasn't warned about the obvious demonic blood pool. If he basically didn't say "Anything for victory." Being consistent doesn't excuse being a terrible, terrible character that deserves sympathy from no one. If he cared about his people, if he cared about the Horde, he would have listened to Thrall's order and he wouldn't have drank that demon blood. Again.

Grom is a bad character. Tyrande is better than him. Tyrande is better than most orc lore heroes. Grom Hellscream and Orgrim Doomhammer don't deserve the praise orcs give them.

[Nymus]

Yes, almost. The way He sees it in ashenvale was that the night elves attacked the orcs with 0 attempts at peace before attacking so they fully deserved grom going full demon blood on them and killing cenarius, and that Groms actions are much more understandable and forgivable because he grew up fighting. Grom being consistent and a very 0 Bull shit character. I think he hates Cenarius almost as much as he hates Tyrande.

He has no fear of battle and will do anything to win. That attitude has screwed him and his people many of times but I never got the impression that he was doing what he was doing for personal glory but for the horde. Which is why I like him over Tyrande, she seems to do things for tyrande.

See, that would work, if it wasn't for the fact that Grom -did- only fight to win. Not for the Horde. He saw an enemy and wanted to win. That's it. That's why Grom attacked the humans first after Thrall specifically told him "Don't". If he wasn't warned about the obvious demonic blood pool. If he basically didn't say "Anything for victory." Being consistent doesn't excuse being a terrible, terrible character that deserves sympathy from no one. If he cared about his people, if he cared about the Horde, he would have listened to Thrall's order and he wouldn't have drank that demon blood. Again.

Grom is a bad character. Tyrande is better than him. Tyrande is better than most orc lore heroes. Grom Hellscream and Orgrim Doomhammer don't deserve the praise orcs give them.

Does this mean we're gonna have to create a "Grom sucks" thread?

[Grakor456]

So, what essentially happened in this thread:

Topic maker - "I need your help! List off the positive virtues of Tyrande! There must be a fan of hers somewhere!"

Everyone - "..." *crickets*

Sudden shout from the crowd - "Tyrande sucks!"

Everyone - "YEAH!"

[Mathias]

Another shout from the crowd - "Grom sucks more!"

[Thoradin]

Let's just all collectively shout


MEEETZEEEENNNNNNN!!!

[therew]

Yes, almost. The way He sees it in ashenvale was that the night elves attacked the orcs with 0 attempts at peace before attacking so they fully deserved grom going full demon blood on them and killing cenarius, and that Groms actions are much more understandable and forgivable because he grew up fighting. Grom being consistent and a very 0 Bull shit character. I think he hates Cenarius almost as much as he hates Tyrande.

He has no fear of battle and will do anything to win. That attitude has screwed him and his people many of times but I never got the impression that he was doing what he was doing for personal glory but for the horde. Which is why I like him over Tyrande, she seems to do things for tyrande.

See, that would work, if it wasn't for the fact that Grom -did- only fight to win. Not for the Horde. He saw an enemy and wanted to win. That's it. That's why Grom attacked the humans first after Thrall specifically told him "Don't". If he wasn't warned about the obvious demonic blood pool. If he basically didn't say "Anything for victory." Being consistent doesn't excuse being a terrible, terrible character that deserves sympathy from no one. If he cared about his people, if he cared about the Horde, he would have listened to Thrall's order and he wouldn't have drank that demon blood. Again.

Grom is a bad character. Tyrande is better than him. Tyrande is better than most orc lore heroes. Grom Hellscream and Orgrim Doomhammer don't deserve the praise orcs give them.

I take you you dont like him in essence because he is not a good guy in then yes he is bad. As a character I found him more interesting than I found Tyrande. Being first to drink demon blood I give him a lot of forgiveness when it comes to all his @#$% ups. The bloodhazed caused a lot of orcs to do a lot of things they were not proud of when it lifted. Ask saufang who everyone loves for some reason. (honestly was he even in warcraft 2? What year did he even show up?) And if I had lived a decade or two hiding in the woods from humans I probably would have been itching for a fight as much as he and his clan was. As for drinking the demon blood a second time, many drug addicts suffer relasp. I do like him more than Tyrande for a lot of reasons. Main one is when it came time to clean up his mistake he charged head forward into it with the same passion that got him into so much crap. Yes, he only killed one demon, but that one demon was the one demon who had ties to nearly every orc alive, including himself. He did it one to one and died for it. Tyrande has messed up just as many if not more times than Garrosh, I've never even seen her remotely attempt to turn her self in a direction other than someone who would use the battle cry " Not like us!" I like both Orgrim and Grom because, now this is just my opinion, they are orcs. They handled things like orcs. Thrall is a half breed, not in blood but in mind. I think Thrall was the leader the orcs needed to go in a new and better direction but Orgrim and Hellscream were the orcs the horde needed when it was time to kill stuff. They did it well and they did it with a grin. Hellscream jr on the other hand learn nothing of his fathers mistakes and honestly is probably the worst thing to have happened to the horde since Gul'dan.

---

On a side note, when my friend asked me " Why do people even like tyrande" I didnt have an answer for him. I feel better no one else does.


Now who wants to explain why people even like the Alliance anyway?

[Reigen]

The other Ally leaders, [Velen, King Meckawhatever and Magni (now his daughter)] aren't so bad compared to Tyrande and Varian. That, and it has all the pretty races. And looks -do- matter to a lot of gamers.

[Mathias]

@therew

I don't like Grom because he's a bad CHARACTER. Bad person? Yes, but not the reason I dislike him. I dislike him because his entire life consisted of being a glory seeking idiot, but one deed and he's suddenly one of the greatest orcs who ever lived and all of his past crimes are forgotten. Orc culture? Probably. Grom should remain someone important to orc culture, but as a warning about being an idiot and allowing yourself to fall to corrupting, not a hero.

I like the Alliance because of good lore heroes, mostly interesting leaders, and the leaders that weren't that interesting at least having potential for growth before Mists (hate), neat cultures, and there was a nice amount of gray in there before Cata (slightly) and Mists (majorly) made them a shining beacon of noblebright.

[therew]

You know orcs say that in game, in character right? That there are in game orcs who state the same thing about hellscream? How he should be remembered as much as a warning as a hero? Without hellscream the orcs would have never made it to Kalimdor in the first place. Without him leading the warsong the Warsong would have likely ended up in camps like the rest of the orcs. The good he did is over shadowed by the fact he was manipulated by the shadow counsel like all other orcs and his screw up in Kalimdor, but he did do good in his life. Hellscream is not a smart orc, he never claimed to be. As for glory seeking I don't see it really. Hellscream lead the Warsong, took over it at a young age but he never wanted more than that. He was happy with his simple life of killing stuff, make him stop killing things and that's when he got antsy and made stupid choices. (Every stupid choice he ever made I think was when someone told him to stop killing something he wanted to kill.) I never saw him as a glory seeker, just the axe of the horde. Its defiantly orc culture to remember someone in the best light they can, and I am not going to fault Hellscream for how his people remember him.

Agree to disagree?

[Kull]

I be reppin' dat nuanced view of Hellscream.