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A Sickness in the Bay
#16
Just use generic, vague ideas. Broader carpets cover broader floors. Just "madness" is enough, and then the players can decide what that "madness" dictates for their character.
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#17
Eh. Generic madness is overused.

I'd like to see some genuine fear. Look at the 1918 flu epidemic. Heck, look at ANY case of disease outbreak. The drama people make over it should give you a good idea of what it does to us mentally.

Epidemics make people self-centered and terrified. You don't even need to be diseased to feel those effects. People betray, abandon or deny help to one another out of fear.

The problem is playing a character realistically, as we'd all like to play fearless badarses to some degree.


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#18
(11-08-2011, 06:00 PM)Etmosril Wrote: Eh. Generic madness is overused.

I'd like to see some genuine fear. Look at the 1918 flu epidemic. Heck, look at ANY case of disease outbreak. The drama people make over it should give you a good idea of what it does to us mentally.

Epidemics make people self-centered and terrified. You don't even need to be diseased to feel those effects. People betray, abandon or deny help to one another out of fear.

The problem is playing a character realistically, as we'd all like to play fearless badarses to some degree.

I think the problem with this is to actually create a disease that you'll be afraid of.

Due to the healing magicks and such sciences in WoW, I think most people (and their characters) have grown very confident and, well... As most of us like to describe divine or natural healing, it can cure pretty much anything in the long run due to its amazing capabilities.

In order to actually get a fearful response from victims of a disease or the people around them... The disease has to be a threat, or people simply won't be cowed since there are so many obvious solutions to battle diseases normally.
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#19
Yup! You're right. I've always thought that healing and resurrections 'devalue' injuries and death, so to speak. And if I recall, Rosencrat tried to limit that in the last event by preventing Light from destroying the disease.

What I'd like is some well-devised IC explanation as to why none of those can be used. If we can also think of something to prevent use of mage portals, so much the better. It's not frightening if you can just wave a hand and save yourself.

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#20
Eh. I think people will just complain then about it being more powerful then the Third War plague, if it can affect everything, as I think Loxmardin said. It happened last time.
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#21
(11-08-2011, 06:33 PM)Etmosril Wrote: Yup! You're right. I've always thought that healing and resurrections 'devalue' injuries and death, so to speak. And if I recall, Rosencrat tried to limit that in the last event by preventing Light from destroying the disease.

What I'd like is some well-devised IC explanation as to why none of those can be used. If we can also think of something to prevent use of mage portals, so much the better. It's not frightening if you can just wave a hand and save yourself.

Exactly. This isn't so much a problem itself; it is simply that certain genres do not work very well in Warcraft without additional justification. A plague in real life is terrifying because there is often no way to fight it at first, and it is an unseen threat spread by other people that could cost you your life. In Warcraft, a disease is something curable without a great deal of effort, and death is something temporary in many cases, even if it is traumatic.

Additionally, it is the world of Warcraft. A great deal of the general population is hardened badasses, to put it simply; even a true zombie plague isn't as frightening when you can incinerate them with a snap of your fingers or vivisect them with a swing of your comically-oversized enchanted bastard sword.

Another issue with the old plague is that, in nearly all cases, it was very easy to avoid outside of making very poor decisions. One could simply leave the Bay whenever they chose, and there was little-to-no incentive to remain. Even with that option ruled out, you could simply sit in the bar with your feet upon the table and give not one whit for the carnage outside. Perhaps there would be something to make people want to remain and risk infection; an appeal to greed is always a reliable incentive.

EDIT: Blast, you posted before me!

(11-08-2011, 06:42 PM)FlyingSquirrel Wrote: Eh. I think people will just complain then about it being more powerful then the Third War plague, if it can affect everything, as I think Loxmardin said. It happened last time.

It is indeed an issue, as the Third War Plague was a product of the combined might of the Legion and the Lich King. Something incurable was entirely novel; that's why it was so frightening in that circumstance. To do it again, however, seems rather to be 'riding upon the coat-tails' of the Legion, and it is (as you mentioned before) rather 'OP.' Incurable poisons and diseases are best left to lore characters.

I do like the overall concept, but I personally would advocate something other than an actual plague. Something horrifying in a more general sense might be better; Old Gods plunging an area into insanity, or something like the 'veil' being torn (for those familiar with Dragon Age) to make an area dangerous. The solutions to those problems are less obvious than "Well, heal it. It can't be healed? Ridiculous; find a way to do it!" and then finding a way to do it, as with the last plague.

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#22
Now, the last plague couldn't be cured because it was 'super powerful'. The last plague couldn't be cured because it effected brain tissue. It's always been a topic of some interest to me: If you get an organ transplant and heal afterwards, will your body reject the non-tissue in favor of attempting to re-create new tissue? If your brain's make-up is changed will healing cause it to revert or will it simply maintain the new tissue? And can Light even affect brain tissue?

On the topic of diseases-that-aren't-diseases:

Some people will remember that I'm quite fond of Brain Slugs. What are Brain Slugs? They were disgusting, crawling monsters that crawled into their victim's heads and controlled their movements. They mostly made an appearance in Bad Business and Darkest Deadwind and they were, quite honestly, very fun to play around with.

Perhaps something along those lines would be best?

The problem between the two ideas is that the disease is easy to manufacture and hard to explain and that non-diseases are hard to manufacture but easy to explain.

I would, after all, want to steer clear of Over-Powered 'God' relics and baubles and keep it grounded in the virulency of a plague.
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#23
(11-08-2011, 06:49 PM)hiddengecko Wrote: Old Gods plunging an area into insanity

...Apologies, my fan-girl qualities got the best of me.

On the topic of Brain Slugs: those actually exist in our real natural world. A type of parasite controls a species of ant. There is also a fungus that does the same thing. If you haven't already, I'd suggest researching those.
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#24
(11-08-2011, 08:03 PM)Rosencrat Wrote: Now, the last plague couldn't be cured because it was 'super powerful'. The last plague couldn't be cured because it effected brain tissue. It's always been a topic of some interest to me: If you get an organ transplant and heal afterwards, will your body reject the non-tissue in favor of attempting to re-create new tissue? If your brain's make-up is changed will healing cause it to revert or will it simply maintain the new tissue? And can Light even affect brain tissue?

Yes, it can; it essentially takes the 'blueprint' of a body and miraculously recreates it. When we say that nothing is beyond the healing ability of the Light, we do mean it--it's likely that the original Plague couldn't be cured because it twisted the genetic code as well as the soul, like a supernatural retrovirus of sorts. While theoretically possible, such a technique lies far beyond the abilities of most mortals, and is unfeasible for RP as it would enforce completely irreversible damage upon characters on a widespread basis.

(11-08-2011, 08:03 PM)Rosencrat Wrote: On the topic of diseases-that-aren't-diseases:

Some people will remember that I'm quite fond of Brain Slugs. What are Brain Slugs? They were disgusting, crawling monsters that crawled into their victim's heads and controlled their movements. They mostly made an appearance in Bad Business and Darkest Deadwind and they were, quite honestly, very fun to play around with.

Perhaps something along those lines would be best?

The problem between the two ideas is that the disease is easy to manufacture and hard to explain and that non-diseases are hard to manufacture but easy to explain.

I would, after all, want to steer clear of Over-Powered 'God' relics and baubles and keep it grounded in the virulency of a plague.

The issue with the 'madness/your will is not your own' concept is that it can essentially force character derailment upon players. Rather than allowing a player's personality to be expressed in extreme circumstances, they are essentially required to roleplay either a different character or a different version of that character.

To write for a character-but-abjectly-terrified is a more interesting and often more worthy exercise than writing for a character-but-crazy-or-mind-controlled. It permits development and exploration, as opposed to how artificially manipulating emotions or thoughts leads to a 'and now for something completely different' situation in roleplay.

To fall into my vice of shamelessly plugging TVTropes, it makes whatever happens during the infection a Big-Lipped Alligator Moment in terms of character development.

(11-08-2011, 08:07 PM)c0rzilla Wrote: ...Apologies, my fan-girl qualities got the best of me.

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#25
(11-08-2011, 08:22 PM)hiddengecko Wrote: The issue with the 'madness/your will is not your own' concept is that it can essentially force character derailment upon players. Rather than allowing a player's personality to be expressed in extreme circumstances, they are essentially required to roleplay either a different character or a different version of that character.

I am actually of the mind, and even say so in an earlier post, that I am shying away of forcing people to play infected in favor of forcing them to contend with the moral choice of dealing with NPC victims who are infected.
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#26
(11-08-2011, 08:57 PM)Rosencrat Wrote:
(11-08-2011, 08:22 PM)hiddengecko Wrote: The issue with the 'madness/your will is not your own' concept is that it can essentially force character derailment upon players. Rather than allowing a player's personality to be expressed in extreme circumstances, they are essentially required to roleplay either a different character or a different version of that character.

I am actually of the mind, and even say so in an earlier post, that I am shying away of forcing people to play infected in favor of forcing them to contend with the moral choice of dealing with NPC victims who are infected.

Carry on.
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