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#46
Rensin Wrote:Ah, heh. This wasn't directed at anyone, freelight. But, again, my opinion is based on this; when do people stop being the "exception", and start being the norm? The answer is, when most people have at -least- one super tolerant character. That's quite a few characters.

Now, with that in mind...how often should this actually happen? Truth be told, almost never. If there isn't an inheraent hate instilled in your character, they'd at least be intelligent enough to realize that yes, they could be murdered by their -own kind- for those types of relationships.

As a matter of a fact, it's been said many, many times... do those kinds of intereactions on your own IC risk, as if it become publicly known, you could be imprisoned or worse.

Edit: As for roleplaying them... they'd have to ICly be aware they could be seen as treacherous for those interactions.
Oh, absolutely. These interactions absolutely carry great potential risk of being branded "traitor", and my character is fully aware of this. (She doesn't like it and ICly wants to work against this, but accepts it as a sad fact of life.) The only place she is openly friendly crossfaction is on neutral (Kirin Tor) grounds. She tries not to be seen traveling with a blood elf for reasons of self-preservation.
"If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?" --Thomas Jefferson
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#47
What people need to do, though is.. IMO, try the hostile RP. I personally love having racist characters. The sad part is, though, I've actually been driven to not even enjoy playing one of them(Everyone knows Gromel) and deleting him because whenever I attempted to stay true to racial hatreds, etc. I got bombarded and teamed up on by people(ICly, and sometimes even OOCly) shouting about how everyone should be racially tolerant.. Made/makes me sad.

There is way too much hugging going on, I believe. If you can have characters actually manage to get past their hatreds and maybe develop at least some -respect- for the other races through RP, more power to you. Honestly, good job. But some races.. just no. Night Elves and Blood Elves? Night Elves -HATE- the Arcane. Blood Elves are tainted with -Fel-, a very potent and dark arcane magic. And they depend on it. No matter who your Night Elf is.. People are only allowed to play NElves that are 300+ years old.. That's 300 years, -from birth- that you are taught to hate the evil magic that is Arcane and learn to love Nature. So.. At least 300 years of being told to hate something.. Why would some little RP over maybe a couple months make that suddenly change? It wouldn't. Sorry, but.. no.

Again, if you can get past racial hatreds through RP(RP that is more than a five minute conversation) more power to you. <Nod> But using excuses like.. for whatever reason, your character isn't raised by a parent.. unless they raised themselves in the woods away from all, they would take on the racial hates. That's how I feel anyway. <Shrug>
Frogspawned: RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!
Frogspawned: Frogspawned flips a table.
Frogspawned: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

FROG, STOP FLIPPING TABLES. YOU'RE MAKING A MESS.

Frogspawned: ┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ)
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#48
What people need to do, though is.. IMO, try the hostile RP. I personally love having racist characters. The sad part is, though, I've actually been driven to not even enjoy playing one of them(Everyone knows Gromel) and deleting him because whenever I attempted to stay true to racial hatreds, etc. I got bombarded and teamed up on by people(ICly, and sometimes even OOCly) shouting about how everyone should be racially tolerant.. Made/makes me sad.

There is way too much hugging going on, I believe. If you can have characters actually manage to get past their hatreds and maybe develop at least some -respect- for the other races through RP, more power to you. Honestly, good job. But some races.. just no. Night Elves and Blood Elves? Night Elves -HATE- the Arcane. Blood Elves are tainted with -Fel-, a very potent and dark arcane magic. And they depend on it. No matter who your Night Elf is.. People are only allowed to play NElves that are 300+ years old.. That's 300 years, -from birth- that you are taught to hate the evil magic that is Arcane and learn to love Nature. So.. At least 300 years of being told to hate something.. Why would some little RP over maybe a couple months make that suddenly change? It wouldn't. Sorry, but.. no.

Again, if you can get past racial hatreds through RP(RP that is more than a five minute conversation) more power to you. <Nod> But using excuses like.. for whatever reason, your character isn't raised by a parent.. unless they raised themselves in the woods away from all, they would take on the racial hates. That's how I feel anyway. <Shrug>
Frogspawned: RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!
Frogspawned: Frogspawned flips a table.
Frogspawned: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

FROG, STOP FLIPPING TABLES. YOU'RE MAKING A MESS.

Frogspawned: ┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ)
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#49
I mean no disrespect...but if I saw this, I would rage.

Hard.

REALLY HARD.


The thought it utterly laughable to myself. I would practice extreme caution when even thinking about possibly warming up to a night elf if your a blood elf, and vice versa. You better have a damn good reason. If say, they saved your life...maybe. Depending on the character. But still, this wouldn't be well recieved. Some blood elves would probably rather die than be saved by a night elf, in extreme cases, I should think.
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#50
I mean no disrespect...but if I saw this, I would rage.

Hard.

REALLY HARD.


The thought it utterly laughable to myself. I would practice extreme caution when even thinking about possibly warming up to a night elf if your a blood elf, and vice versa. You better have a damn good reason. If say, they saved your life...maybe. Depending on the character. But still, this wouldn't be well recieved. Some blood elves would probably rather die than be saved by a night elf, in extreme cases, I should think.
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#51
I think the root of the problem is that we're playing too much like modern day humans. Human rights, brotherhood, love your neighbor, don't do drugs, don't pollute the environment. We've embedded it too much in our characters.

Might seem offensive, but yeah...they've never experience a Hitler to avoid becoming one, too. They wouldn't know if trees are running out (Only the Nelves, probably), they don't have medical machines to determine if a drug is harmful. No, there's no such thing as and never will be a human peace accord saying that all races are equal and should be respected equally.

Not directed at anyone too, and it's somehow related to this...is Ratchet, the ghetto of all ghettoes in Azeroth; the dumpsite of lowlifes becoming a haven for Blood Elves and Night Elves everywhere? I don't see how any of their cultures can stand the vileness of the city. It is a sprawling metropolis of pickpockets, smelly street vendors and piles and piles of wood upon wood. (Have you seen Booty Bay and the inn there? Yeah. It's an inn made out of a ship.) The reasons I asked and heard?

-Silvermoon is locked up.
-It's a nice place to RP there. OOCly.

1. Yes. Silvermoon is locked up. 'Oh, let's go to Ratchet and plan there!' There are quite a few places that are higher in standards for an elf and the fact that Ratchet is a continent apart...well, I don't see the logic. My suggestion? Hell, the Mage Tower in Azshara which was newly made as an RP Location could be a great rebel base! The ground looks like it was in eastern Lordaeron, too!

2. Go on an alt if you find Ratchet nice. An alt used to the searing desert of the Barrens. You know what the US Army does to insubordinate soldiers and officers? Send them to Alaska. In the Horde, Thrall sends them to the Barrens. In fact, being alone in a trip across the barrens would be suicide. I doubt elves, Night Elf (Why would they stray away from their nature) or Blood Elf (There are no Sin'Sholai bases in Kalimdor at all. I doubt they'd have Ratchet as a rest stop or a stop.) Unless you're working there or have a businees there perhaps, I wouldn't call it a vacation spot or a temporary residence.

This post is in no way related to the 'Please go out of Ratchet thread'. I'm pointing this out from a standpoint that might be breaking lore and making 'exceptions'. Exceptions that are too special for a player to do.

As for the racial brotherhood coming around too much? I partially blame the neutral cities being a hub for RP. And remember folks. We're in the FOURTH WAR. Go sneer at some people or races more. We don't mind. It's IC and it should affect us OOC because that's how our characters are. We're playing too much like modern day humans with the 'Oooh nature, protect it. We're running out of trees!' or 'Don't do drugs, they're harmful'.
[Image: 2r3hym9.png]
Main Characters:
Riggs Ravenhook - Swarmy Old Goblin Thief and Corporate Nuisance
Gorudo Goldforge - Goldforge Clan Remnant and Ranger
Turic Carsten - Stormwind Regular

http://diethe.deviantart.com/
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#52
I think the root of the problem is that we're playing too much like modern day humans. Human rights, brotherhood, love your neighbor, don't do drugs, don't pollute the environment. We've embedded it too much in our characters.

Might seem offensive, but yeah...they've never experience a Hitler to avoid becoming one, too. They wouldn't know if trees are running out (Only the Nelves, probably), they don't have medical machines to determine if a drug is harmful. No, there's no such thing as and never will be a human peace accord saying that all races are equal and should be respected equally.

Not directed at anyone too, and it's somehow related to this...is Ratchet, the ghetto of all ghettoes in Azeroth; the dumpsite of lowlifes becoming a haven for Blood Elves and Night Elves everywhere? I don't see how any of their cultures can stand the vileness of the city. It is a sprawling metropolis of pickpockets, smelly street vendors and piles and piles of wood upon wood. (Have you seen Booty Bay and the inn there? Yeah. It's an inn made out of a ship.) The reasons I asked and heard?

-Silvermoon is locked up.
-It's a nice place to RP there. OOCly.

1. Yes. Silvermoon is locked up. 'Oh, let's go to Ratchet and plan there!' There are quite a few places that are higher in standards for an elf and the fact that Ratchet is a continent apart...well, I don't see the logic. My suggestion? Hell, the Mage Tower in Azshara which was newly made as an RP Location could be a great rebel base! The ground looks like it was in eastern Lordaeron, too!

2. Go on an alt if you find Ratchet nice. An alt used to the searing desert of the Barrens. You know what the US Army does to insubordinate soldiers and officers? Send them to Alaska. In the Horde, Thrall sends them to the Barrens. In fact, being alone in a trip across the barrens would be suicide. I doubt elves, Night Elf (Why would they stray away from their nature) or Blood Elf (There are no Sin'Sholai bases in Kalimdor at all. I doubt they'd have Ratchet as a rest stop or a stop.) Unless you're working there or have a businees there perhaps, I wouldn't call it a vacation spot or a temporary residence.

This post is in no way related to the 'Please go out of Ratchet thread'. I'm pointing this out from a standpoint that might be breaking lore and making 'exceptions'. Exceptions that are too special for a player to do.

As for the racial brotherhood coming around too much? I partially blame the neutral cities being a hub for RP. And remember folks. We're in the FOURTH WAR. Go sneer at some people or races more. We don't mind. It's IC and it should affect us OOC because that's how our characters are. We're playing too much like modern day humans with the 'Oooh nature, protect it. We're running out of trees!' or 'Don't do drugs, they're harmful'.
[Image: 2r3hym9.png]
Main Characters:
Riggs Ravenhook - Swarmy Old Goblin Thief and Corporate Nuisance
Gorudo Goldforge - Goldforge Clan Remnant and Ranger
Turic Carsten - Stormwind Regular

http://diethe.deviantart.com/
PM
Reply
#53
Piken Wrote:What people need to do, though is.. IMO, try the hostile RP. I personally love having racist characters. The sad part is, though, I've actually been driven to not even enjoy playing one of them(Everyone knows Gromel) and deleting him because whenever I attempted to stay true to racial hatreds, etc. I got bombarded and teamed up on by people(ICly, and sometimes even OOCly) shouting about how everyone should be racially tolerant.. Made/makes me sad.

I believe this needs to be emphasized. This is something that's happened to me many times before. It drives good, dimensional characters down because the general medium of peace minded characters that infest, yes I believe I use the term infest as good diction here, neutral areas. I live my life as a pacifist, an advocate of the neutral party and peace among earth is my favorite saying amongst Christmas time here. I don't believe anyone should be mean to each other, and that war is a product of the ultimate ignorance and stubbornness of man and man's pride. However, this is not real life. My characters are reverently deep seeded with instant dislike for someone they don't consider a neutral party. It's not a matter of whether I, as a person, are open minded to look for the neutrality of mankind, it is a matter of my character, and how much maturity, determination and sheer roleplaying skill someone will put into their characters to be able to play them as racists and continue to live their lives without being racist.

However, when someone is not doing this, it is NEVER in your place to call them out OOCly over it. Oh Em Gee, y don u lyk my BE? Because my character was raised to hate your Blood Elf with a vibrant passion. If you truly think someone is being rude to you for the sake of being downright mean to YOU and not your character, don't send them a message saying why their character isn't open minded. If someone's doing the aforementioned violation of the first rule, send it to a GM. However, the same thing can be construed from jumping on someone who's being true to their racial mindset, and harping them in character over it.

"Now Anski, most of the rules don't apply to being in character?"

You can clearly be disrespectful in character, i've done it to a whole tavern of people, every last one standing in there which ended up in Ripley almost getting punched IN THE FAEC. However, Conquest of the Horde, I need to remind you all that being in character is being in character and whenever you and the entire Ratchet Tavern is harping on some Blood Elf for not liking your pretty Draenei friends, think about what you're doing to that person. It's going to make you vibrantly unlikeable, very quickly. Between both the people of your own race who are staying true to their racial mindset and the people of the OPPOSITE race who are staying true, you'll be construed as traitors, heretics and possibly struck down for it. Ontop of that, if you're harping on someone for being this way, you're damaging that person. I know a good fortune of people I don't roleplay with on the sole sake that their characters are flower-carrying (Not you, Maulbane), peace sign waving heartfelt allies of whatever person decided to be their friend ICly. Knowing if I did, I would have to be instantly disliking of them ICly for being as such, and possibly OOCly for not playing their race correctly. I've been harped on before for being mean to someone and their two opposite raced friends, and I was just starstruck at the amount of ignorance that was flowing through the air, and still am every single time this happens. I don't have a character in Ratchet anymore because of this. I see a Blood Elf, Night Elf and a Troll talking at a table and I forget they are there on the sole sake of wishing they weren't.

You are not your character.
Your character is not supposed to be the one character who understands peace.

Please, COTH, play your characters right.
[Image: wMRLoCF.gif]
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#54
Piken Wrote:What people need to do, though is.. IMO, try the hostile RP. I personally love having racist characters. The sad part is, though, I've actually been driven to not even enjoy playing one of them(Everyone knows Gromel) and deleting him because whenever I attempted to stay true to racial hatreds, etc. I got bombarded and teamed up on by people(ICly, and sometimes even OOCly) shouting about how everyone should be racially tolerant.. Made/makes me sad.

I believe this needs to be emphasized. This is something that's happened to me many times before. It drives good, dimensional characters down because the general medium of peace minded characters that infest, yes I believe I use the term infest as good diction here, neutral areas. I live my life as a pacifist, an advocate of the neutral party and peace among earth is my favorite saying amongst Christmas time here. I don't believe anyone should be mean to each other, and that war is a product of the ultimate ignorance and stubbornness of man and man's pride. However, this is not real life. My characters are reverently deep seeded with instant dislike for someone they don't consider a neutral party. It's not a matter of whether I, as a person, are open minded to look for the neutrality of mankind, it is a matter of my character, and how much maturity, determination and sheer roleplaying skill someone will put into their characters to be able to play them as racists and continue to live their lives without being racist.

However, when someone is not doing this, it is NEVER in your place to call them out OOCly over it. Oh Em Gee, y don u lyk my BE? Because my character was raised to hate your Blood Elf with a vibrant passion. If you truly think someone is being rude to you for the sake of being downright mean to YOU and not your character, don't send them a message saying why their character isn't open minded. If someone's doing the aforementioned violation of the first rule, send it to a GM. However, the same thing can be construed from jumping on someone who's being true to their racial mindset, and harping them in character over it.

"Now Anski, most of the rules don't apply to being in character?"

You can clearly be disrespectful in character, i've done it to a whole tavern of people, every last one standing in there which ended up in Ripley almost getting punched IN THE FAEC. However, Conquest of the Horde, I need to remind you all that being in character is being in character and whenever you and the entire Ratchet Tavern is harping on some Blood Elf for not liking your pretty Draenei friends, think about what you're doing to that person. It's going to make you vibrantly unlikeable, very quickly. Between both the people of your own race who are staying true to their racial mindset and the people of the OPPOSITE race who are staying true, you'll be construed as traitors, heretics and possibly struck down for it. Ontop of that, if you're harping on someone for being this way, you're damaging that person. I know a good fortune of people I don't roleplay with on the sole sake that their characters are flower-carrying (Not you, Maulbane), peace sign waving heartfelt allies of whatever person decided to be their friend ICly. Knowing if I did, I would have to be instantly disliking of them ICly for being as such, and possibly OOCly for not playing their race correctly. I've been harped on before for being mean to someone and their two opposite raced friends, and I was just starstruck at the amount of ignorance that was flowing through the air, and still am every single time this happens. I don't have a character in Ratchet anymore because of this. I see a Blood Elf, Night Elf and a Troll talking at a table and I forget they are there on the sole sake of wishing they weren't.

You are not your character.
Your character is not supposed to be the one character who understands peace.

Please, COTH, play your characters right.
[Image: wMRLoCF.gif]
PM
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#55
Monolith Wrote:Example that everyone will hopefully realize: It would be like Adolf Hitler and a Rabbi. Yes, it would be just that extreme.

Wow, first page and we already have fulfilled Godwin's Law. Impressive -- seems like a new record!

In other news, excessive racial tolerance makes me a sad panda. Admittedly, Mansfield is relatively tolerant, but that's because he's a doctor: death is his enemy. Please note that death contains the undead, though. If you're dead, he will kill you if he can. Kill you again, that is.
[Image: 2mhzmdy.gif]
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#56
Monolith Wrote:Example that everyone will hopefully realize: It would be like Adolf Hitler and a Rabbi. Yes, it would be just that extreme.

Wow, first page and we already have fulfilled Godwin's Law. Impressive -- seems like a new record!

In other news, excessive racial tolerance makes me a sad panda. Admittedly, Mansfield is relatively tolerant, but that's because he's a doctor: death is his enemy. Please note that death contains the undead, though. If you're dead, he will kill you if he can. Kill you again, that is.
[Image: 2mhzmdy.gif]
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#57
Anski Wrote:
Piken Wrote:What people need to do, though is.. IMO, try the hostile RP. I personally love having racist characters. The sad part is, though, I've actually been driven to not even enjoy playing one of them(Everyone knows Gromel) and deleting him because whenever I attempted to stay true to racial hatreds, etc. I got bombarded and teamed up on by people(ICly, and sometimes even OOCly) shouting about how everyone should be racially tolerant.. Made/makes me sad.

I believe this needs to be emphasized. This is something that's happened to me many times before. It drives good, dimensional characters down because the general medium of peace minded characters that infest, yes I believe I use the term infest as good diction here, neutral areas. I live my life as a pacifist, an advocate of the neutral party and peace among earth is my favorite saying amongst Christmas time here. I don't believe anyone should be mean to each other, and that war is a product of the ultimate ignorance and stubbornness of man and man's pride. However, this is not real life. My characters are reverently deep seeded with instant dislike for someone they don't consider a neutral party. It's not a matter of whether I, as a person, are open minded to look for the neutrality of mankind, it is a matter of my character, and how much maturity, determination and sheer roleplaying skill someone will put into their characters to be able to play them as racists and continue to live their lives without being racist.

Like I said. People are playing too much like modern day humans. That's the root of the problem. Peace, brotherhood, love all races, don't do drugs, save the trees, killing is wrong. Heck, I doubt if non-Nelves would even have a slightest idea that trees would run out. I'd like to emphasize on this, on what Anski said. And yeah...the only reason why Bruisers stop the fight (At least in the Goblin City) is because it's bad for their business. I think morality should be reviewed better in WoW, don't you think?

Yeah, I saw the Ripley thing and how everyone seemed to huddle up on her. I glanced between the dancers and the commotion too. Sekh and Taelyn was enjoying the view of the women until everyone else ganged up on Ripley. Well, partly because Rip flamed everyone too and got into the business. ICly, got real full when I couldn't concentrate with all the noise on the strippers so I had the bruisers called. The main thing I saw here is that Rip didn't flame my orc why? Because I stood out of the way. Sekh was only curious because sure, I'd like to see someone get punched in the face. So I guess the lesson there was...yeah, you probably deserved being hated by a racist for butting into her business.
[Image: 2r3hym9.png]
Main Characters:
Riggs Ravenhook - Swarmy Old Goblin Thief and Corporate Nuisance
Gorudo Goldforge - Goldforge Clan Remnant and Ranger
Turic Carsten - Stormwind Regular

http://diethe.deviantart.com/
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#58
Anski Wrote:
Piken Wrote:What people need to do, though is.. IMO, try the hostile RP. I personally love having racist characters. The sad part is, though, I've actually been driven to not even enjoy playing one of them(Everyone knows Gromel) and deleting him because whenever I attempted to stay true to racial hatreds, etc. I got bombarded and teamed up on by people(ICly, and sometimes even OOCly) shouting about how everyone should be racially tolerant.. Made/makes me sad.

I believe this needs to be emphasized. This is something that's happened to me many times before. It drives good, dimensional characters down because the general medium of peace minded characters that infest, yes I believe I use the term infest as good diction here, neutral areas. I live my life as a pacifist, an advocate of the neutral party and peace among earth is my favorite saying amongst Christmas time here. I don't believe anyone should be mean to each other, and that war is a product of the ultimate ignorance and stubbornness of man and man's pride. However, this is not real life. My characters are reverently deep seeded with instant dislike for someone they don't consider a neutral party. It's not a matter of whether I, as a person, are open minded to look for the neutrality of mankind, it is a matter of my character, and how much maturity, determination and sheer roleplaying skill someone will put into their characters to be able to play them as racists and continue to live their lives without being racist.

Like I said. People are playing too much like modern day humans. That's the root of the problem. Peace, brotherhood, love all races, don't do drugs, save the trees, killing is wrong. Heck, I doubt if non-Nelves would even have a slightest idea that trees would run out. I'd like to emphasize on this, on what Anski said. And yeah...the only reason why Bruisers stop the fight (At least in the Goblin City) is because it's bad for their business. I think morality should be reviewed better in WoW, don't you think?

Yeah, I saw the Ripley thing and how everyone seemed to huddle up on her. I glanced between the dancers and the commotion too. Sekh and Taelyn was enjoying the view of the women until everyone else ganged up on Ripley. Well, partly because Rip flamed everyone too and got into the business. ICly, got real full when I couldn't concentrate with all the noise on the strippers so I had the bruisers called. The main thing I saw here is that Rip didn't flame my orc why? Because I stood out of the way. Sekh was only curious because sure, I'd like to see someone get punched in the face. So I guess the lesson there was...yeah, you probably deserved being hated by a racist for butting into her business.
[Image: 2r3hym9.png]
Main Characters:
Riggs Ravenhook - Swarmy Old Goblin Thief and Corporate Nuisance
Gorudo Goldforge - Goldforge Clan Remnant and Ranger
Turic Carsten - Stormwind Regular

http://diethe.deviantart.com/
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#59
Diethe Wrote:Sekh and Taelyn was enjoying the view of the women until everyone else ganged up on Ripley.

Had to fix that. *smirk*

I remember that too and Taelyn just stood there and watched as well, because he didn't want to get involved as there was already a handful of people going at it. Just the other day Taelyn told Mickey not to sit at his table because he didn't want to sit with a traitor, now granted Mickey apparently had no clue why he was being called a traitor, it still goes to show how Taelyn feels towards them. Yes he can be tolerant around them, maybe even nice, but that's because there's usually an ulterior motive behind it.
________________________________________________________________________

"The potential of these lands has yet to be seized." -Taelyn Sunwing
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#60
Diethe Wrote:Sekh and Taelyn was enjoying the view of the women until everyone else ganged up on Ripley.

Had to fix that. *smirk*

I remember that too and Taelyn just stood there and watched as well, because he didn't want to get involved as there was already a handful of people going at it. Just the other day Taelyn told Mickey not to sit at his table because he didn't want to sit with a traitor, now granted Mickey apparently had no clue why he was being called a traitor, it still goes to show how Taelyn feels towards them. Yes he can be tolerant around them, maybe even nice, but that's because there's usually an ulterior motive behind it.
________________________________________________________________________

"The potential of these lands has yet to be seized." -Taelyn Sunwing
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