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CW : Love it or Hate it?
#31
As much as it is immersion breaking to not be able to act before asking permission, it also kills the RP entirely for someone on the receiving end. Someone is in the middle of a storyline with a character they have spent a lot of their time on and suddenly someone's put deadly poison in their drink. No warning, no nothing. All the storylines and those hours of work go down the drain and the player isn't given a fair chance to prevent it from happening.

Immersion suffers for the sake of fairness to the players who spend their own personal time on the roleplay. Some people could probably be good sports and go with it anyway, but the loss is still real.
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#32
...Thing is, the resurrection policy sort of renders any worry about storylines coming to a screeching halt moot. It's more of a week break.
[Image: tumblr_nfm4t0FZcT1rtcd58o1_r1_500.gif]
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#33
That is about to change.
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#34
(10-29-2013, 06:54 AM)Loxmardin Wrote: That is about to change.

Terrifying.
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#35
Unfortunately, some players (some players = basically just me) avoid the whole resurrection kaboozle because they find it kind of detracting from immersion/character depth/etc unless very carefully dealt with, so that leaves some people in the dust when it comes to these things.

(10-29-2013, 06:54 AM)Loxmardin Wrote: That is about to change.

*The crowd sits on the edge of their collective seats*




Move him into the sun—
Gently its touch awoke him once,
At home, whispering of fields half-sown.
Always it woke him, even in France,
Until this morning and this snow.
If anything might rouse him now
The kind old sun will know.

Think how it wakes the seeds,—
Woke, once, the clays of a cold star.
Are limbs, so dear-achieved, are sides,
Full-nerved—still warm—too hard to stir?
Was it for this the clay grew tall?
—O what made fatuous sunbeams toil
To break earth’s sleep at all?
[Image: 62675bf4fd.jpg] [Image: 0e7357dcfe.jpg]
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#36
I've seen moments in the past where someone willingly got themself into a situation where they would clearly be killed. The best example I have is that one member of a guild captured a person who was against the group the guild represented. They were enemies and if the group could get their hands on this person they would kill him. The person got into some trouble with another group, and directly asked a member of the main group that hated them to help him out. Said member agreed, and bought this person from the other group.

He was then taken back to a secluded place and another member of the group was brought in. He started taunting them and going on pretty much setting up his own death sentence. But when the time came to kill him, he said "Ha, can't kill me! I never accepted a CW!" So we gave him one, and he said "Denied."

At this point, you have taken it too far. As the GM said when we asked for their help, you don't jump into a dragon's mouth and say "No CW accepted, I'm safe!" There are certain points where your actions have put your character in a lot of trouble, and a CW is implied without being spoken just from the things you have said or done. And in this situation, I don't think people should be able to hide behind the rules of a CS and be safe from death after they set themself up for it in the first place.
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#37
That is a good example of abuse, indeed. Hence why I said there's no such thing as denying a CW. I believe I even made a huge post about it somewhere.

EDIT: Okay, I couldn't find any recent one I wrote, though I swear I've written one fairly recently, but here's an exerpt from one I did write while the Lawless Island still existed.

Spoiler:
  • => CHARACTER WARNINGS ~ It seems they will need some clarification!
So what is a Character Warning? Let's start there, since it's rather fundamental. A Character Warning is a, well, warning that is issued when any kind of harm (lethal or not) that may negatively affect a character (physical or mental) has a risk of befalling them if they continue further into a flagged situation. At least, this was what they were initially intended to be. How you issue this warning is up to you, though there is not really a rule stating that you have to issue a warning. It's a courtesy, however, and an "unwritten law". Regardless. There have been many cases where Character Warnings have been a cause for heated arguments and drama. Be it how they were issued, how they were later treated, how the player walking into a CW situation was treated... It has, in short, been the cause for many a headache for many people in the community. I thought I'd give some input on how the Character Warnings could and should be treated.

A Character Warning isn't as simple as simply saying "Character Warning, <Character Name>" in the /General channel in the zone you're currently in. While you're not obliged to say anything more than that, it would be a common courtesy to open discussion with the player whose character you are issuing a warning against. Discuss exactly what the warning entails and what consequences may possibly befall them if they choose to proceed with whatever they were doing, or walking into the flagged situation. It's the responsibility of the player whose character has a warning issued against them to take up the discussion if the other party doesn't initiate it. In truth, the responsibility falls on both parties, should the situation turn into an OOC conflict later. But I just wish to clarify that the "victims" or "targets" of the Character Warnings don't escape responsibility if things don't go well OOCly, as such has been misconcieved in the past.

There is no such thing as "refusing a Character Warning". A warning is a warning and not an absolute. Another player issuing a warning are simply giving you a heads-up that there's a risk of something happening to your character, or of someone attempting to cause your character harm. If you don't wish to let this happen, then you will need to avoid getting yourself in a situation that lets this happen to your character. Even if you choose to walk into a flagged situation, that doesn't mean your character has automatically submitted to whatever fate the opposing players has in store for you. It simply means something may be attempted against your character, and this is something everyone should keep in mind. Just because someone has "accepted a Character Warning", it doesn't mean you are given permission to do whatever you wish to their characters and they automatically have to accept the consequences.

While a player and their character should always be ready to accept the consequences of their actions, it still does not give you as an opposing player free reigns with another player's characters unless they expressively tell you so. It's their character, and you do not have any control over it whatsoever. That's what it'll eventually boil down to.

Of course, any player is always welcome to report any abuse of the "safety net" that the Character Warnings actually do offer for both parties involved. Most kinds of abuse of this "safety net" will quickly branch into metagaming or godmoding. Both of which are against the rules of the server. I will say it again. Don't hesitate to call in a GM if a problem arises and you can't seem to reach an agreement or solution on your own.
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#38
One of the biggest things to remember is that a CW fades after a scene, so you have to re-apply them. Reigen gives Krest a CW [it's funny cuz he's dead] for doing something and Krest leaves the RP. She can't come up a day later and attack/kill him on the CW issued a day ago. Every time the character leaves a scene, the warning is reset. We also don't allow automatic CWs for a character. No: "If you interact with this character you may be killed." Still have to issue a new warning each time with reason behind it.

So yeah, CWs are pretty much "If you do not stop this your character may die." If you 'accept' it, you keep going what you're doing. If you 'deny' it, you leave the scene or you end what the character is doing to provoke the warning. There's no prancing around with "I DENY" while still annoying another character. That's when a GM will gladly step in.

As for immersion breaking? Yeah, it is, but it's one of those times where OOC should cross into IC for the sake of fairness. Not everyone has a lot of alts and the current [and changing] week wait can make the time pretty boring. If they don't wanna deal with it they don't have too, so long as they're not using it as a way to let their character act stupid with no consequences.
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#39
I've always seen the CW system as many have said 'It's a warning, not a question' kinda thing. And for the system I'm glad it's in place because to be perfectly honest.. I'm one of the people who's afraid of my character dying. But only because everyone always seems to be so dead-set(/ggl) on killing others. There have been times that my character should have been all "RAWR I KILL YOU" but I managed to work in something so no one -died- but instead lived and from it came an odd, loose 'friendship' of sorts. I'm just a cynical, untrusting a-hole but I always assume that people are out for that 'kill count' so they can brag about it and if I get that vibe, I excuse myself from the RP because I really don't want all of my work on a beloved character to come to a screeching halt because someone wants another notch on their belt. Wounds are one thing but I'm one who's not too keen on the revival stuff(done it once and regretted it).

So yeah. I'm all for the CW system and I think it's fine when used properly(as GM stated previously in the thread). All done. >.>
Frogspawned: RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!
Frogspawned: Frogspawned flips a table.
Frogspawned: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

FROG, STOP FLIPPING TABLES. YOU'RE MAKING A MESS.

Frogspawned: ┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ)
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#40
Loxmardin Wrote:Someone is in the middle of a storyline with a character they have spent a lot of their time on and suddenly someone's put deadly poison in their drink. No warning, no nothing.

While I'm visiting my own thread, let's talk about this.

I entirely agree with the point that @Kage brought up, about how the RP as an assassin-for-hire is very...well, unpopulated. Being a person that would love to be an assassin, here's my viewpoint.

Yes, it's courtesy to give somebody a heads-up what's going to happen, but that does indeed do what @Kage said, leaving them to not drink their poisoned glass for the remainder of the RP.
That being said.

I think I'd enjoy THOSE TYPES OF SITUATIONS more if a CW wasn't required. Something I'd rather do is receive a whisper saying "*Insert assassin's name* has slipped a poison into your drink! Because this poison has varying affects, you can choose and roleplay the intensity and lethality of this poisoning on your character."
I'd love that, personally. That gives me the ultimate choice; to be free. While I could smirk and have my character totally unaffected, I could also be a cool dude and go along with it, while also having fun myself.

I guess the real point I'm trying to get at here is that I've never seen a CW as a death sentence. Just because the term CW comes into play doesn't mean that there is going to be somebody dying. A lot of people avoid CWs because they assume that they will just lead to their character dying.
In reality, a CW could be as simple as your character being attacked....and good rolls could bid you to come out of that unharmed! There is a whole spectrum of things that could result from a CW, death being one of the very last ones.

Just throwing my opinion out there to anybody following this thread. If you're somebody who usually keeps away from CWs because you fear loss of character, don't be so afraid. Maybe try it out the next one comes your way, but possibly clarify to the person that you would like not to die. Set boundaries, so that an assassin can still get a strike in against his target, even if it's not enough to kill him. This leads to a whole new mess of possible RP; Who was the assassin to your character? Why did they target you? Will you enact revenge? Just imagine it.

With my opinion stated, I'll return to leaning back in my chair and watching you guys discuss.

/thumbs up
[Image: 4ab673a110e5324a7acf57e330a6c8eb.jpg]
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#41
Character warning should be... a warning. "If your character keeps doing whatever they are doing, they are gonna die." If someone says they don't wanna do that.. well, things better change or they should leave the situation. That's how it should aways pan out.
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#42
I wholeheartedly (or however it's typed) with @Harmonic on this one. A CW is not a question in my mind, it's called a warning for a reason I believe. It's just "Do what you do and die or change your behavior and maybe live" not a "Hey, do you mind if...".

As a personal rule, I NEVER deny a CW unless I am unable to accept it due to OOC reason (Eg, I have to go soon, other player has to go soon, etc).
I will not be forgotten. This is my time to shine. I've got the scars to prove it. Only the strong survive. I'm not afraid of dying. Everyone has their time. Life never favored weakness.

Welcome to the pride!
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#43
Just two points from me:

1) For assassins, in most situations the hit is put on by someone else. Perhaps it can be outlined that character warning can cover hits as well, as in "If you continue this course of action, then you are gonna enter a long term period of threat on your safety or well being." Being clear on this could open up the door for assassins, who'd be covered under the initial warning, as well as any long term retribution plans.

2) I think that the issues about character warnings being denied stems from it covering very specific types of scenarios, like extreme torture and rape. Since people use cws for those, which players may want to expressly not take part in, the usage changed. Perhaps a separate type of warning should be outlined for things beyond the standard scope of a character warning.
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#44
Jonoth Wrote:Perhaps a separate type of warning should be outlined for things beyond the standard scope of a character warning.

My yes. It has all of it.
[Image: 4ab673a110e5324a7acf57e330a6c8eb.jpg]
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#45
(10-28-2013, 09:33 AM)c0rzilla Wrote: Perhaps clarify what "denying" a character warning means. A lot of people seem to think you're not allowed to "deny" it. I always interpreted it as the one given the CW is allowed to find a way around character death, working with the player of the potential killer to find a resolution. Not...just going LOL CAN'T KILL ME and continuing to do whatever stupid thing they're doing.

(10-28-2013, 04:26 PM)Loxmardin Wrote: There really is no such thing as "denying" the CW. It's a warning. Just stop what you're doing if that's what's giving you the warning and you'll be fine. (That said, continuing despite the CW doesn't mean you surrender. ;) There are always ways around the worst-case scenario.)

I just want to point out something here, particularly so people don't get confused by what Loxmardin is saying here. Particularly since our page on CWs on the wiki states, quite clearly, that CWs are entirely deniable.

Quote:If the target wishes to refuse a CW, then that must be firmly declared as well. In such a case, it should be worked out between the two players how to resolve the RP, usually involving the characters separating, otherwise peacefully resolving the issue at hand, or continuing with a fight with a non-lethal conclusion. If a decision cannot be reached in a timely fashion, then the best solution is to simply separate the characters.

http://wiki.conquestofthehorde.com/Character_Warning

But what this means is that you can't, say, deny a character warning and then proceed with your character being annoying against overwhelming odds. That goes into the section about violations of common sense.

The biggest problem with CWs is how casually they can be given out. They are a necessity and a courtesy, but people seem entirely too wrapped up on killing other characters instead of looking for non-lethal conclusions that result in long-term rivalries or hero/villain relationships. The former kills storylines, the latter creates them.
Have you hugged an orc today?
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