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CW and Character Death Discussion
#16
WI've had my experiences with the character that wants to just push everyone's buttons and run off and hide just because they denied a CW. Though...

The way I look at it, you can't "deny" a CW. A CW warns you that you're about to mess up bad, and my character's about to flip it hard on your character. Sure the other can say "I don't wanna get hurt" or "I don't wanna die" and try to ICly remove themself from the situation. Though I understand we have to be fair about it. Sometimes they can ICly remove themselves with ease. Other times it can get a little hairy. I let them go even though my character probably wouldn't ICly. Though if it seemed to be some form of OOC antagonization, aggression, or anything of that nature when that character comes back to make trouble? I consult the GMs.

I don't enjoy combat RP. I don't like having my characters kill other characters. But if they'll do it ICly, well, that's who they are. Leron's taken down two PCs so far, both of which offered a great storyline for him and the Silverfangs as a whole.

Character death? It's a great plot device when used properly. I've had two characters die once and come back. Aendron and Doran. Both have changed quite a bit from the ordeal. Aendron embraced his experience and learned from it while Doran continues to have horrid nightmares and have difficulties dealing with humans. Though he's still slowly learning from the ordeal. I don't like how some can abuse it. At all. Shrugging off death? The character has to be some sort of insane.

I think the best option would be to offer a guide with details regarding the CW and Rez systems. Offer suggestions on how to use the tools at their hands, when a GM should step in, how they'll handle it, ect. Perhaps throwing out that information will help? Can't hurt to try.

Just my quantity currency remark expressing my opinion on said matter.
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[4:16:27 PM] Cristovao di Silvio ( @CappnRob): theres the bar. then theres the bottom of the barrel, then theres you sachi
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#17
Here's a question I came up with while trying to think of how to play Abrams... notably, how do I handle his character warnings? He's a rogue/ex-special forces operative with a powerful gun. If he wants someone dead, he doesn't get in their face or challenge them to a duel - he walks away, decides whether or not he REALLY wants someone dead... and if so, death will come from hundreds of meters away, at an unknown time in the future, when the victim least expects it - and there's a good chance he'll get away with it. It's not "fair"... but then again, assassination is NEVER 'fair'.

I guess extensive OOC setup/discussion would be the best way to go. Issue a character warning, make sure the reciever KNOWs what he's getting into, and then sit on it... but Abrams also isn't the type to gloat about his subtle actions, so there should be no IC paranoia induced in the target.
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#18
Still got to give a fair warning. If the other end of the deal hasn't directly incited their own death, you have to work with them in that situation. Because they might not want their character dead, and if they're trying to avoid dying then... you really don't have a right to put a bullet in their skull without their permission.

It's a whole other deal if, like in KageAcuma's example, they taunt you and expect to get away with it. Otherwise, you have to communicate with the player. If you do it anyway and the player takes it in stride, then that's all nice and easy. But if they don't and they didn't want that to happen to their character, there will be trouble and drama.

So... Yeah.
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#19
The best option I've found is to discuss it with someone. Approach them OOCly and just let them know if your character, what he does, and if their character is a target. The worst that'll happen is someone will say "I don't want to die". Though you never know if someone would be open for a storyline and to work with your warnings. I've never been a fan of impromptu deaths. Those are the ones that seem the most unfair, especially if there was no antagonization first hand.

Communication is key.
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#20
I'm going to be honest---I don't issue character warnings. I've never had an instance where I've expressly wanted to kill a character off, or where one of my characters would blow up and try to take the person's life. The reason for this, I've felt, is that character deaths can be such a touchy damn subject for all inovled. I know personally that I like to have control over my characters and how they die. USUALLY that makes me think about their humility in certain situations---yes, my characters don't take nonsense, but they also have the common sense to keep their mouths shut and be mindful of their situations when it calls for it.

One of the things I never understood is the guy that "smack talks" with no fear. Realistically speaking---and I know, blur blur realism---if you were in a tense situation and were perhaps threatened or possibly COULD BE threatened, you would probably have a hard time getting those words out without choking on them.

Again this sort of thing brings me to the badass complex that a lot of people are afflicted with.
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#21
I don't like using IC cues in lieu of a character warning. It can get confusing. I usually assume that just because a character may want to kill another character doesn't mean the player wants to OOCly and might avoid it. But anyways it can end up being another one of those unfair traps where you're in a situation and uninformed about character death.

I also remember a time where I didn't know that you could run away when a character warning was given out. I thought that the other player could outrun mine so I thought I was dead regardless and it felt a little unfair and nerve-wracking. I do wonder if this is an issue for other newbies as well?

As far as the attitude goes I wish we wouldn't have to consider revising the system. I just wish we could politely tell them to knock it off or something. Surely building your character's behavior on the assumption of an OOC rule counts as a form of meta-gaming? :/
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#22
(12-12-2012, 09:20 AM)Wuvvums Wrote: I don't like using IC cues in lieu of a character warning. It can get confusing. I usually assume that just because a character may want to kill another character doesn't mean the player wants to OOCly and might avoid it. But anyways it can end up being another one of those unfair traps where you're in a situation and uninformed about character death.

I also remember a time where I didn't know that you could run away when a character warning was given out. I thought that the other player could outrun mine so I thought I was dead regardless and it felt a little unfair and nerve-wracking. I do wonder if this is an issue for other newbies as well?

As far as the attitude goes I wish we wouldn't have to consider revising the system. I just wish we could politely tell them to knock it off or something. Surely building your character's behavior on the assumption of an OOC rule counts as a form of meta-gaming? :/

It should. It's poor character design, in my opinion, with the idea of "Kill gathering" behind it. That was one of the reasons this was put in place, we had a group of IC kill happy individuals in Duskwood that'd kidnap and kill players without them knowing what was going on.

To me, and this may be a stretch, but it'd be like making a character only to eRP on, this would be a character made only to "Kill" other players with.
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#23
(12-12-2012, 09:25 AM)Rensin Wrote: It should. It's poor character design, in my opinion, with the idea of "Kill gathering" behind it. That was one of the reasons this was put in place, we had a group of IC kill happy individuals in Duskwood that'd kidnap and kill players without them knowing what was going on.

To me, and this may be a stretch, but it'd be like making a character only to eRP on, this would be a character made only to "Kill" other players with.

Boy, I remember being temp-banned for godmoding and metagaming, trying to take down the leader of that group. Those were dark times for me as a roleplayer.

When I have been faced with individuals who danced on the line with the character warning system, I have found that it's often best to declare a "time out" until a GM can come and moderate the discussion and have a chat with the offender about metagaming. This is one of the reasons there are GM staff.
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#24
I honestly believe people forget about the GMs a lot thesedays. If they're around, then you should contact them to resolve the matter peacefully - before the drama wells up and becomes a flood.
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#25
(12-12-2012, 10:41 AM)Rowgen Wrote: I honestly believe people forget about the GMs a lot thesedays. If they're around, then you should contact them to resolve the matter peacefully - before the drama wells up and becomes a flood.

I remember the GM's! I bug them when I have little questions that I'm unsure of! Or if I wanna bug a couple of em for rp. But the drama? Surprisingly I don't think I've really been part of it. (Well. Now that I think of it there was that one time when the Blood Elf attacked Daichi and a couple of the other orcs.. Poor guy, ended up getting swarmed by two or three Blademasters.)

Now, I'm not inviting people to come drama it up, but come on. Daichi and Krest can both be killed, and probably should be. (Not that I want them too, but they both fight, and they both fight in dangerous situations.) I actually -want- to have a situation where there's a chance I could die. I had one, sadly it got cut off, but I loved it. The thrill of Krest almost getting crushed by a moving statue that really -could- kill him was just awesome. If he did die? I could take his story and move off of it with a [Insert child/best friend/brother here] and continue the Fairstar storyline. That's how I view my characters at least, just a part inside of a larger story that I can add into and continue. You can do the same with any other character really. Lame excuse about why this persons here and you still have that death that affects so many people, and can continue with your story (Just don't go around saying your his twin.)
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#26
(12-12-2012, 05:07 AM)Loxmardin Wrote: Death isn't meaningful right now because of how people treat it and their attitude towards it.

In the end, it'll be whatever you make it out to be. Using the current system, we all have all the tools available to make a character's death a very good point in a storyline, or something very crucial in their character development if you actually have a bit of fun with the death itself and spend some time pondering the aftermath while you're writing that resurrection post... Well, you'll have made something fantastic for yourself.

But, that isn't to say you should embrace death just because someone's trying to kill you, because many times the death is really uncalled for and awkward, and "dying for the sake of dying" is a major turn-off as far as running storylines is concerned.

Ramblerambleramble.

+1

People seem to forget that DYING AND COMING BACK TO LIFE would be one of the most HORRIBLE AND TRAUMATIC THINGS you could probably experience.

And yeah, dying just for the hell of dying is no good either. Sure, it might be more realistic, but realism usually isn't the best storyteller.
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#27
Rowgen Wrote:I honestly believe people forget about the GMs a lot thesedays. If they're around, then you should contact them to resolve the matter peacefully - before the drama wells up and becomes a flood.

Yeah, we are actually able to (and frequently do) step-in to help moderate conversations like this. I've had to explain CWs after-the-fact to new players, too, who had no idea what just happened or why they didn't have to accept, etc.

CappnRob Wrote:People seem to forget that DYING AND COMING BACK TO LIFE would be one of the most HORRIBLE AND TRAUMATIC THINGS you could probably experience.

This. All of my this.

Of the characters I do use frequently, Xanthe would probably go catatonic from the horror of being dead'n'resurrected (so much so that she has made her eldest brother swear to never, ever let anyone do that to her) or possibly kill herself to rectify the unnatural error brought on by the selfishness of others. Lobelia struggled with her Forsaken nature when she was "fresh", because I imagine that'd be rather on-par with being resurrected normally.

I think some people might remember my rambleramblerant on character death and resurrection back when this topic was brought up awhile ago, but I'm not a big supporter of resurrections -- specifically if the character (or player) is a "repeat offender". It cheapens the whole experience of death, not just for the character that died but for the characters around it. Grief doesn't really exist anymore. Why should it? Beloved So-and-So will be brought back in a week, why are you crying?

Yes, I have seen a few tastefully-done resurrections with personal developments for all parties involved. But, mostly, I used to see a lot of "Wa-ta! Take that, Death, you don't know me! Who wants to FIGHT!?" or shrugging-death-off "This rez sickness will wear off in a little while". I will accept CWs for serious maiming, comas, etc if my characters go out of line. I'll even accept a CW-for-death if I feel the storyline (or the actions) sincerely need it. But, from a writer's point of view rather than a roleplayer's, death is not the only answer and based on how I view death'n'rez, I try to monitor my characters' actions and involvements carefully. Even Caravan will back down from an optional certain death.
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