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Cross faction RP.
#1
Why?

There are separate factions for a reason and breaking down those walls makes me a little iffy. Seeing a night elf in Orgrimmar should be more of a cause for alarm than it currently is - dealings with Cenarion or not, folks should be wise enough to realize that not every night elf is a druid and that not every orc is Thrall.

There has to be some sort of conflict or this place is going to get boring. What's the point of plotting to take over human towns if we're lounging around beside them and having a good laugh over brandy? There isn't one. I understand that people want to play the Alliance and that's dandy - why play them with the expectation to fit in with the horde?

This is not a post against allowing cross faction emotes because sure, they should know when the horde are about to kick them in the face. This is about the act in general that goes against what this game was set up to be.
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#2
Heaven forbid some of us RP characters who have grey areas, break out of the game's mold in any way they can, or have characters in a neutral faction. Go grab a WoW D20 book or read WoWWiki's lore section or something. Read up on some bios before you have a conniption.

And weren't you just complaining about people being against one another in another thread?.

I dunno, I just think of characters with varying attitudes that may change depending on the situations they might encounter, since they are sentient beings.

Also the world's setting is in the near future. Anything is possible.
ALSO: this game being run on a private server was something the developers also didn't intend on, either. ;)

Who knows; I'm sure there will be characters who have that Alliance vs. Horde mindset as well as pacifists. In exchange, I'm sure there will be people who are traitors within their own faction, and people who are part of neither group at all, and people who only think of their own race-screw everyone else, or even just themselves.
#3
My stance is this: large groups of player camps (like Drelgar's forces) should not Lord over everyone else's because it'll obliterate the RP. The Alliance and Horde should not become buddy buddy because that's the main source of stories, both background and not, regardless of this new time frame. We can't do away with it and not have it be a huge thing. That's like saying that, because we're on a private server and it's the near future, Arthas is suddenly Santa Claus and there's no more Scourge. You can't just disregard the Warcraft lore the RP is based on to suit your needs.
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#4
I haven't seen any vampire elves yet. I highly doubt anyone is going that route.

I'm getting this from you:
1) You don't want anyone going against WARCRAFT (not WoW; there is a difference) lore. I don't think anyone has.
and yet
2) You want pretty black-and-white token characters.
and yet
3) You don't want to see pushy/obnoxious characters picking fights with folks
and yet
4) You want conflict based upon WoW's default system

Okay.
#5
I think perhaps we should take a breather before continuing this discussion. Just my advice.
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#6
I don't know why you're antagonizing me, but it's not appreciated.
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#7
I'm not. I'm just recalling what you posted. If you want to clarify what exactly you mean and pointing out examples you've been involved in, go right ahead.
#8
I'm going to refrain from continuing this discussion with you, AIRs. I welcome any other imput on the original topic.
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#9
I kinda agree with AIRs.


In the D20 books, there -are- Alliance races that live in Orgrimmar, etc etc. If you want, I can even type out the passage for you. They just don't allow it in the game because of their shitty game mechanics.

Now, it does also include that these races aren't too entirely trusted. And so be it. That's entirely fine. If an elf wants to live in Org, let 'em. Their character just has to have a good reason for abandoning their faction, or something else.

For instance, Xeruel supports the Horde, but he'd still rather just watch from a distance. Kendei belongs to neither the Alliance nor the Horde, but is a cast away that is in the Argent Dawn. That allows him to go between various cities from either side and, while they may not like him, that's fine! He still wears his armor with pride.

As far as the language barrier, I'd rather have it down, but it's just my own personal opinion. Mostly because, yes, it is a hassle having to go out of the way in order to talk with a friend. If you're a good RPer (not saying anyone isn't) then this small change will not affect the way your character interacts with others based on their own views. Just because -you- can personally read their text doesn't mean that your character can understand them. Kretol and Kendei have been friends for many, many years, and therefore Ken understands orcish. So it's within terms to say that he would know this. If not, and I could understand what Kretol said, I'd simply act as if Ken just didn't know! <3
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#10
Last I checked, we were playing WoW and not a d20 game. I am roleplaying in the MMO using what is on hand, the in-game lore. And in the game, people of opposing factions would be killed on sight if they wandered into each other's capitals.
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#11
This topic fails.
#12
Eh... The game was fashioned after the D20 game.

To be honest it was fashioned after the lore, or so the original devs intended.

That was before Blizzard became money hungry, fired their good devs, and hired the EQ devs to make it the grindfest that it is today.

You can use WoW's in-game mechanics all you want. I, however, believe that they are rather poorly designed and think that way too many are stuck on it for crappy reasons. Half of the player database is only still around because of friends. =\



That being said, it even says that the Horde and the Alliance are at an uneasy truce. As in, they allow trade goods, but 'tis about it.

And with Jaina and Thrall around, those that actually know the lore and whatnot, know that they are both still trying to continue peace.
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#13
WoW takes a lot of liberties with reality to make a world that's more conducive to gamers, with roleplayers told to f**k all many times. These two elements are totally separate and it's silly to try to force one world into the other. WoW's world basically tells internal consistency to take a hike while it spews out a bunch of convenient little logical contradictions to make the game more useful to the players who don't really give a damn about roleplay.

If you want a better look at how things truly are you only need open up Warcraft 3, which directly influences WoW because it establishes roughly half of the major plot points and really the entire environment of the game. Let me just take a few copy-pastes of some stats here:

Human Footman
Gold Cost: 135
Lumber Cost: 0
Food upkeep: 2
Hit points: 420
Armor Class: Heavy
Armor rating: 2/8
Sight: 140/80
Speed: 270
Build Time: 20
Damage Type: Normal
Weapon Type: Normal
Net Damage (Ground): 12.5/17
Net Damage (Air): None
Attack Cooldown: 1.35
Attack Range: Melee

Now compare all of this to the Orcish Grunt:
Gold Cost: 200
Lumber Cost:0
Food upkeep: 3
Hit Points: 700/800
Armor Class: Heavy
Armor Rating: 1/7
Sight: 140/80
Speed: 270
Build time: 30
Attack Type: Normal
Weapon Type: Normal
Net Damage (ground): 19.5/30
Net Damage (air): None
Attack Cooldown: 1.6
Range: Melee

Source: http://www.battle.net/war3/orc/unitstats.shtml (orc) and http://www.battle.net/war3/human/unitstats.shtml (human).

A cursory glance at this will tell you that while Human footmen are slightly better armored than Grunts, Grunts have almost twice as much health and hit much harder than their Human counterparts. And as a War3 player, I can safely tell you that a Human footman straight up has no chance if he gets into a one-on-one battle with an Orcish Grunt. A human fighting a simple Tauren unit is even more jarring. I could go on for quite some time over other differences, but suffice it to say that most players don't have a lot of use for games like that. I guarantee you that if WoW were set up to give Orc Warriors twice as many HP as Human Warriors, you'd see a lot fewer people playing. To make things internally consistent, you'd also have to have a full ban on all warlocks inside the Horde for obvious reasons, and the Blood Elves straight up would not be in the Horde, either. The Orcs not only have old grudges with arcane magic, they have a new one with Hellscream's fall, and a race of people addicted to it just would not fly in Orgrimmar.

But! Again, if all this were integrated into the MMO, the legions of addicted puppies that WoW has so successfully made would complain very loudly about the inherent inequality in the factions. People even complained about the differences between Shamans and Paladins so much that Blizzard basically spat out a race from the pits of nowhere to give the Alliance their Shamans and gave the Horde one of the only races Thrall wouldn't accept for any reason and managed to dream up an even more unbelievable explanation for why they could be Paladins. Blood elves aren't addicted to DIVINE power, and up until Blizzard pulled that particular rabbit out of their hat, Blood Elves were considered as disinterested in religion as Gnomes.

There's also, of course, the even greater inconsistencies that go along with peoples' actions in the game. If a bunch of Horde guys decked out in gear of honor from the Horde military wantonly slaughtered a bunch of Alliance citizens in Goldshire--which happens daily on some retail servers--you would very quickly see the truce the opening scenes of WoW allude to evaporate and legions of human soldiers would show up on Orgrimmar's doorstep. The same sort of dynamic incited war between the Spanish and the English over Sir Francis Drake.

And THEN, naturally, you have the things that were CHANGED purely to stop cross-factional communication--it was considered just fine at one point. In the beta, Forsaken knew Common. This made sense, since by and large they are dead humans. Forsaken carved out a nice spot as translators until people started abusing it. And, of course, early on everybody could see your /me emotes, but that also became a vehicle for abuse and they nerfed it to 'strange gestures'.

I could go on for quite a while, punching holes in the tattered, sexist, held-together-by-baling-wire-and-twine world that WoW resides in, but suffice it to say it's clearly not a roleplayer's environment. Look at any other PnP world, anywhere from White Wolf's World of Darkness to D&D to Shadowrun to the Cthulhu mythos to anything else and you'll search in vain for even a quarter as many painfully obvious deus ex machinas as you find in the first 10 levels of playtime in WoW. Nothing makes sense in WoW, and asking people to roleplay by those strict rules is like asking people to roleplay in the world of Secret of Monkey Island, if you'll forgive the dreadfully nerdy simile. It DOESN'T support RP, and it was never MEANT to support RP, and asking people to stick to it makes as much sense as a 16-year-old armchair psychologist.
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#14
First off, let's quit the fighting and snarky remarks, please. We don't need the drama here, and if I see another reply to the effect of "this topic fails" someone is going to not like my reaction.

That said, let's not confuse things: The Horde and the Alliance are still at war, or at least as close to war as they are on Live with the constant fights in Warsong Gulch, etc. There is perhaps enough of a truce to prevent armies from marching into capitals, but that's it.

However, that does not mean that members of other races cannot conceivably end up in Orgrimmar. If a Night Elf can prove to city officials that she is part of the Steamwheedle Cartel, or a Human proving he's a Consortium agent, etc. etc., then he or she may be allowed in because he or she is allied with a neutral faction, not the Alliance. There are plenty of neutral organizations that allow members cross-faction, and these races obviously can get along to some degree since we see them working together (such as many of the cultists and the like for the Old Gods or Legion.)

However, someone who is proven to still be affiliated with the Alliance would not be allowed in. There are still fights going on.

How people react to said "neutral" Humans/NEs/Gnomes/Dwarves/Draenei entering Orgrimmar is up to them, however. Yes, Garrok was unusually easy-going when this occurred, but it fit his character (Water Shaman with a respect for all life.) If Tahlic or Grakor were present, the reaction would have been very different. If you want things to be rough for those people, make it so.
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#15
Thank you, Grakor.
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