Poll: How do you think custom lore should be done, with regards to the canon storyline?
Go full out and change the canon story line, both in the minor details and the major outcomes.
Only touch up canon lore, changing details to improve the writing but not changing outcomes.
Do not touch canon story lines at all.
I have another opinion and will post below!
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Custom Lore Poll, Part 2!
#46
YOU'D ACTUALLY GET TO BE AN USEFUL FARMER AGAIN.

There's no pleasing some people.
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#47
I voted for the first option, personally.

I don't have anything against the canon storyline in general, but the freedom to make modifications would be pretty neat. It'd be a collective effort and I think it'll be rewarding for everyone involved if we get it off the ground. It'd be a slow process, so it's not like we'd overturn everything overnight or even over a single week. Small modifications depending on what the playerbase and staff feel would be a good direction to take the server in.

My feelings, in short!
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#48
People that don't RP on the server anymore please sit down.

Jokes aside, I'd love a decision post once this whole discussion ends, a post of what decision was taken and what we shall expect.

My opinion on the matter, shortly put: A mix of the first two options, easy.
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#49
It's been roughly a week and the first option still has a semi-comfortable lead, and there are enough votes where I feel that it's safe to call it. We'll probably make a separate announcement post later as to what this'll mean, but I think it's safe to say we're going into custom lore and being given the freedom to change canon events.
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#50
I still personally think we should not change the lore too much. Fill in the cracks, not change things that don't need to be changed. Changing the Lore too much adds more problems than it is worth. So I say we just use custom lore to fill in the cracks, not drastically change what has been established.

Another issue is that it then becomes a challenge for new people to get into the server when much has been changed. This sever, while starting to peak once more, has dwindled quite a bit. Some weekends have four to seven people on, sometimes more sometimes less. I don't want to drive more new players away from the server. Especially if more 'competition' exists out there.

And what happens if people do not want to follow the established custom lore, I have heard people ignoring retail lore and they usually get shut down and set straight. But will we do the same for custom lore?

I personally don't want another Sin'sholai incident where the lore is drastically changed.

But then that is my vote.
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  • Harmonic
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#51
I still maintain that the lore is actually good that Blizz wrote, and often we over-inflate our egos thinking we could do better.

The whole focus of Warlords is that Garrosh is a badguy. Omitting that is resigning to stagnation, mostly because any story changes that ignorethat expansion require a drastic overhaul CoTH is not capable of.

Could then measure the lifespan in years or less. If CoTH's population is still hurting... this will still keep people from coming back and estrange new people coming in.

Please, stay lore friendly. I can't for the life of me understand why people slam the Sin'Sholai but think this would at all be a good idea as it altars lore in the most -boring- and un-warlike way.
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#52
(08-24-2014, 08:35 AM)Harmonic Wrote: Please, stay lore friendly. I can't for the life of me understand why people slam the Sin'Sholai but think this would at all be a good idea as it altars lore in the most -boring- and un-warlike way.

This is highly presumptive. Never once did we state for certain what we would precisely be doing with Garrosh or anything else. If you don't want custom lore, that's fine, but saying "Oh, now everything's going to be terrible" is just pointless doom-saying at this point. Save targeted criticism for when actual information as to what we may or may not be changing comes out.

For the record, Warlords doesn't focus on Garrosh at all. He sets certain events in motion (events that could have been started in other ways) and then gets one-shotted by Thrall (this is not hyperbole.)
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#53
Then wouldn't it make more sense to make this descision with more information on what will be changed instead of little to none?

Right now if it's just "hey, want us to change stuff?", it's so over encompassing and vague anyone would agree because we can all jump to our own conclusions or wants... just as I have.
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#54
(08-24-2014, 09:30 AM)Harmonic Wrote: Then wouldn't it make more sense to make this descision with more information on what will be changed instead of little to none?

No. Talking about the possibility of change, without knowing specifics, is actually important here. The mere idea of not conforming 100% to canon lore is an important debate to have on its own merits, without having to go into detail over what is going to be changed, as it is a departure from CotH's past policy for several years. Specifics would not only be needless detail at this point, it would serve to slant people one way or another not due to whether they want custom lore at all, but whether they like -this- or -that- custom lore. We're not ready for the latter debate yet because we didn't even know if we should start brainstorming.

And obviously it's not an "anyone would agree" situation. We've had dissenting opinions just based on "I don't want to change canon lore and that's that."
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#55
Of course it would slant opinions. If we had an idea of what was being discussed with diverging from following lore completely... we can make an informed opinion. I personally don't like changing blizz lore, and am more than fine with custom lore ontop of it.

Without that guideline, it opens up too many broad possibilities. It leaves room not just for discussion... but arguement.

I think for this poll to be fair and not broad, it needs to be discussed in conjunction with -why- people want to change it. Are we going to talk about players getting high ranks and stature in cities? Some will vote in favor of custom lore just based on that. The Garrosh thing? It's not an unreasonable thing to think that is why this topic was made, people complain about that frequently.

Thing is, this topic is broad. Of -course- there will be an overwhelming yes. But unless we get more information as to why this is up for discussion... it doesn't make sense to jutt this out and say "are we for it?" Because it's like asking someone if they want pizza. They will say yes, but might regret it if they get anchovies and mushrooms.
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#56
(08-24-2014, 10:06 AM)Harmonic Wrote: I think for this poll to be fair and not broad, it needs to be discussed in conjunction with -why- people want to change it. Are we going to talk about players getting high ranks and stature in cities? Some will vote in favor of custom lore just based on that. The Garrosh thing? It's not an unreasonable thing to think that is why this topic was made, people complain about that frequently.

Thing is, this topic is broad. Of -course- there will be an overwhelming yes. But unless we get more information as to why this is up for discussion... it doesn't make sense to jutt this out and say "are we for it?" Because it's like asking someone if they want pizza. They will say yes, but might regret it if they get anchovies and mushrooms.

Person A wants custom lore to advance his character in the over-arching story. Person B wants custom lore in order to make the story fresh, exciting, and unpredictable again. Person C wants custom lore because that person thinks Blizzard's writing is terrible and believes we can do better. I've heard all these opinions, but I don't need to know how many of each we have. Why? Because in the end, we can satisfy all three needs at the same time without problem. Done and done. The nitty-gritty specifics of "Is Garrosh still going to flip out for no reason?", "Will Aggra continue to be nothing other than a womb for Thrall to impregnate?", or "Will Anduin still teach Velen the importance of friendship?" seems kind of pointless to discuss right now, beyond the possibility that they can change. One step at a time, we need to know how far we can go before we make that leap.

Not to be hostile, but given your position I don't think you should really be making that comparison, because you're coming off more as "I don't like pizza at all, so I'm going to shout out the worst possible outcomes that I can think of in the hopes of depriving others of pizza so I don't miss out."
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#57
Well, yes, the poll is broad. But that's because no actual changes have been proposed yet. Nothing has been suggested or set in stone. In the previous discussion before we even made this poll, it was stated that this would be a community-wide effort. Things aren't just going to change on a whim, and I would expect many more polls regarding possible changes in the future. Right now we're just deciding, together, if we want to go there and how far we could be prepared to go. I don't really see the problem, there.
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#58
(08-24-2014, 10:46 AM)Grakor456 Wrote:
(08-24-2014, 10:06 AM)Harmonic Wrote: I think for this poll to be fair and not broad, it needs to be discussed in conjunction with -why- people want to change it. Are we going to talk about players getting high ranks and stature in cities? Some will vote in favor of custom lore just based on that. The Garrosh thing? It's not an unreasonable thing to think that is why this topic was made, people complain about that frequently.

Thing is, this topic is broad. Of -course- there will be an overwhelming yes. But unless we get more information as to why this is up for discussion... it doesn't make sense to jutt this out and say "are we for it?" Because it's like asking someone if they want pizza. They will say yes, but might regret it if they get anchovies and mushrooms.

Person A wants custom lore to advance his character in the over-arching story. Person B wants custom lore in order to make the story fresh, exciting, and unpredictable again. Person C wants custom lore because that person thinks Blizzard's writing is terrible and believes we can do better. I've heard all these opinions, but I don't need to know how many of each we have. Why? Because in the end, we can satisfy all three needs at the same time without problem. Done and done. The nitty-gritty specifics of "Is Garrosh still going to flip out for no reason?", "Will Aggra continue to be nothing other than a womb for Thrall to impregnate?", or "Will Anduin still teach Velen the importance of friendship?" seems kind of pointless to discuss right now, beyond the possibility that they can change. One step at a time, we need to know how far we can go before we make that leap.

Not to be hostile, but given your position I don't think you should really be making that comparison, because you're coming off more as "I don't like pizza at all, so I'm going to shout out the worst possible outcomes that I can think of in the hopes of depriving others of pizza so I don't miss out."

So... because I don't like the idea, I can't say it's unfair to those who don't like it that this will slant towards "yes" because of a lack of information?

I could understand---again, a discussion about changes. While I'm not fond of changing blizz lore, that sort of topic gives people something to work with. Plus, it can give people like me a -reason- to change our minds. Something to discuss. Saying "do you wanna?" sets this up with -no context-, other than just changing the lore.

Yes I'm against it overall. In no way should that somehow negate my opinion that we -should- have information on what reason is behind this. Yes, I do think that is fair to everyone, so that people aren't blindly agreeing to something that we have no clue on how the GM's are currently planning on using to change CoTH.

I understand you guys are trying to get opinions from the community, but give us a clue what you are thinking behind the questions. What exactly would you guys change? Why? What wont be changed?

Otherwise this question of custom lore -is- weighted and already slanted by the assumptions of what custom lore could me to any single one of us.

I could care less about my pizza analogy. Mostly because I can settle down if it's known what changing lore -means-. The examples you provided even... while people might like one thing, they may hate another. Think it's more than fair to say we should really, really discuss this stuff and think it all through.

I don't see how these requests put me in a position were I am invalidated.

Edit: Also, I do find it pretty offensive at the end of your statement. People can find fun in these things. Good, I'm glad. But, I also find fun in lore, so how does it mean I'm depriving others for selfish gain? Because I think people should make informed judgement?

You know me better than that.
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#59
(08-24-2014, 12:01 PM)Harmonic Wrote: So... because I don't like the idea, I can't say it's unfair to those who don't like it that this will slant towards "yes" because of a lack of information?

I'm telling you how you're coming off with your arguments as presented. I'm sorry if you find that offensive, but you shouldn't unless that is your actual intention. I am not in your head and I have no way of knowing your actual thought processes on anything.

I don't feel that this poll is in any way "unfair" or deceptive. We have never obfuscated any information that we are armed with in regards to this topic. We put up a poll and discussion about custom lore in general, having an entire Meet and Greet (which was logged and posted elsewhere) to field questions and work out the specifics, and explained our desires as best we could in that thread and in several posts in this one. When there was some confusion and split due to conflicting desires when it came to canon lore, we made this poll to further zero in on what people want.

The question this poll asks is simple: do you want to see custom lore change canon lore in any way? I don't see why this is unfair to ask. No, we don't have specific examples because we ourselves don't have specific ideas written down at this point in time. This is about -policy-, not a single specific change that we're enacting. Otherwise, we'd be having to cast a poll about every single change we make to the story, and that doesn't make much sense. Again, we want to see what our boundaries are before we jump out into the endless sea of possibilities. I'm sorry if you believe that this is "unfair" in some way or that we're with-holding information, but I am still not seeing it.
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#60
The reason no discussion in-depth have appeared yet is because we're still going through this poll. Discussion on specific possibilities come later. Right now we're checking if the community is even interested before ideas and suggestions fly. Throwing them to a disinterested crowd is a waste of time and effort, and knowing whether the community wants to explore that territory is vital before anything else. You know, since the community is going to have the freedom to suggest and develop, and its nice to know if the community is on board with something that might depend a LOT on it as a while.

Many of the possible lore changes were discussed prior to the opening of this poll. I'm on my iPad so I can't go and get the link, but hopefully someone else can. Thst discussion also shows clear apprehension about the concept in some members, if I recall. ... So, technically, the discussion you want has already happened briefly. Individual polls and discussions will spring up with each suggested change provided this goes through, so don't assume this poll is a blanket pernission sort of deal, either. This is all about whether we should give it a try or not, then we go from there. We can always back up again if it doesn't work out, but ideally this should give more freedoms overall for both players and staff in areas we were too afraid to touch before.

It's not like we're going to throw canon lore out the window. Glossing over the gaps and adjusting it according to the community's fancy for the sake of continuity where there is none would be neat. Filling out the blanks where Blizzard didn't care to elaborate. Or just change what we have so the world can truly reflect player influence. Possibilities are endless, but it all depends on discussions that will come up in the future. None of that is relevant until the specific discussions come up.
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