Custom Lore: Quilboar in the Horde?!

[Maulbane]

Hey, everyone. Since the title says it anyway, there's no point in trying to make a fancy prelude leading up to my concept! Let's just discuss it, instead!

I'm sure that the thread in of itself is hardly a surprise considering how much of a weirdo I have become regarding the Quilboar. Which partly is why this thread isn't going to be a wall of text, since it isn't about proving whether it can happen and the how/why/where/who of the concept, just, well, whether it's feasible OOCly and in terms of the community. I could throw out twenty kajillion lore snippets that prove that it's possible, but that's irrelevant if nobody is interested in the idea or would like to make it anything more than Maulbane sitting in a corner cackling madly with a few sea urchins he's drawn pig-faces onto. This thread is more for the non-staff than the staff, as I I know it's possible ICly and therefore can later make a way more coherent pitch for you GMs - this is just to see whether anybody would want to see it or would have any interest in it, as well as tackle any questions.

So, in lieu of an actual proposal, this is more of a pitch. Here is the series of fairly malleable primary concepts that've been rattling around in my brain for some time.

1) A subset of Quilboar become associated with the Horde. I personally prefer the idea of inventing a tribe for such a purpose, but there's extensive lore showing it's attempt-able for existing tribes too.
> The nature of this association is in the air. From a true alliance, to a 'second class member' situation, to a simple non-aggression treaty, to forced assimilation and whatever in between.
> > The process in which the Quilboar do this would likely be an expansive storyline. Smaller than Hyjal, but a large deal with a very present and excessively possible failure state. Likely tied to the Earthworks.
> > > If the storyline is failed, bottom line is the race doesn't join; at worst, doing consciously stupid things ICly around Quilboar could go as far as maiming / character death, as a side-idea. Long story short, wouldn't be easy.
2) This subset, whatever it ends up being, would allow for mini-CMC status for this particular group.
> Any other Quilboar would still use the full CMC process.
3) This group of potential-Quilboar would have their own lore, primarily predetermined but shaped by the players that decide to join it (in this way it would function like a noble house, somewhat)
4) They'd have a foundation within their group/tribe to RP among themselves, but also multiple excuses / methods for them to leave the pack (so to speak) and RP abroad like any other CMC.

That's a little hectic, as it's all go to go through community opinion and probably come out differently than that, but I can provide another list (the list tag has just about confused Maulbane) of benefits that I feel this'll have.


1) It'll provide a balance to the amount of unplayable races friendly or connected to either faction - Alliance have a far higher pool of groups to choose from. In this case, the Quilboar would play as an equivalent to the Furbolg (for example the Barkskin who are outright aligned with the Alliance, or the Timbermaw who obviously have a greater connection to the Night Elves).
2) The Quilboar have some of the greatest changes since Cataclysm of any unplayable / hostile race, and their development is a source of super-duper interest - especially if a small part of it can be player-driven!
3) It'll provide endless inter-factional conflict. Quilboar attempting (and possibly failure) to forgive or quash their hate of the Tauren for the greater good (or just to stay on the Orcs' good side)? Orcs pitying the Quilboar as the underdogs they once were, or trying to 'civilise' them into productive members of the Horde? Blood Elves investigating their new, experimental magic for potential? Forsaken condemning - or researching - their ties to the Scourge? The Darkspear flocking to learn more about potential Loa such as Agamaggan, and their experimental shamanistic magics? Goblins... Well, Goblins trying to make a buck? There's a real, tangible interest in the eyes of almost every race in the Quilboar, waiting to be tapped. Friction! Drama! New storylines!
4) A group of predominantly Kalimdor-based CMCs will inevitably spark RP in the region, hopefully consistently, and may bring players who'd otherwise not have bothered with Orcs, Tauren or Trolls in particular out of their hidey-holes.
5) The group will also function as a guild in of itself, and have their own storylines and events exclusive to themselves (but also ones that deal with the Horde proper)
6) Unlocks certain magic that is totally exclusive to the Quilboar; piggy-magic, crystal-based geomancy, thornweaving, which are totally unknown by the rest of the Horde. Could even be tutored (with trust and such) to non-Quilboar, reminiscent of the old prestige system with characters teaching newbies rare abilities.
7) Provide basis for a new RP location for the Horde. A Quilboar village? Yes please! (Doesn't need to be made, as Brambleblade Ravine has no NPCs since the Cataclysm)
8) At the end of the day, Quilboar are just really adorable and obviously the best. You wouldn't deprive them of having fun, would you?

This post is, in general, pretty slapdash, but so are the Quilboar, so I can pretend that's just a clever meta element of the thread rather than my own incompetence.

So, yes. What's your opinion on this? Do you think it's worth it? Do you think it's too much trouble? Do you have any questions about the Quilboar in particular that are interfering with your judgment of this idea? Feel free to post! In fact, I order you to post.

[Dae]

Reading over your Quillboar compendium thread, I feel like there's a notable shift in how Amamamammgapiggy is represented in Lore. He's represented around the War of the Ancients as a savage, hungry and unyielding creature. However, Cataclysm and beyond paints him as a much more calm and docile creature. Perhaps his death soothed his apparent rage?

Either way, he clearly sides with the player factions over that of the most powerful of quillboar. Perhaps he could send visions to certain, more inherently noble Quilboar for them to band together in his name. The Quilboar constantly fixate on the second coming of Agamaggan, after all, so his behest could be enough to force them to work with the Horde, whose heroes he seems to respect.

Also, potentially, some undead quilboar could be involved once RFK is taken care of ICly. Seeing as the Quilboar are kind of pragmatic and the Forsaken often share similar extreme values of loyalty to their people, I could actually see them getting along quite well. They don't have much bad blood between them beyond the associations with the tauren, and the quilboar don't seem to mind the undead all that much. I mean, for all the "Wooo, undeath!" forsaken out there, I could still see many Forsaken craving a more natural form of magic that would not so harshly eschew them for their undead state.
(Actually, I could see this making Forsaken Shaman a potential thing if they clicked well ICly, but that's delving into my own personal WoW race fixation...)

And as for the Blood Elves, well... They've got a huge helping of humble pie after the Third War, and we've seen them already take a great interest in "savage" magics by basing many forms of enchantments on superior troll methodology. I could see them taking a huge interest in the piggy crystal magic stuff.

Point is, I think this is definitely a possible thing as long as Agamaggan is in on it. And I do feel like we could make this a thing, as RFK is presumably completed in Warcraft lore sometime during Cataclysm. We pump up the story, have this new group/previously unknown tribe of Quilboar fight alongside the player characters, and roll with it. I'm with you on this!

[Maulbane]

While the idea of a technology and culture trade between Forsaken and Quilboar would be laughed at on the surface, it actually does make more sense the more you think about it.

RFK is a bit of a problem. I'm not sure how far reaching or persistent our lore is going to be, but RFK is canonically doing fine even into Warlords of Draenor. If anything, they're shown to have grown -stronger-. That's one of the primary reasons I want to avoid using lore groups for the coming proposal, since while I love the idea of custom lore I don't want to make this into something that demands a massive effort from staff.

Agamaggan does figure into most of the reasons I've cooked up as to why they'd join in the first place.

Oh, and I forgot to mention in the OP, the Razorfen tribe also have arachnomancers as of WoD. So yep. To embrace the Quilboar is to potentially embrace spider magic.

[Harmonic]

To embrace the Quilboar is to potentially embrace spider magic.

I officially have stopped wanting this in it's entirety.

[Maulbane]

You know you want it.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=150528

Just look at it.

Oh, also, they're Death's Head, not Razorfen. So it's probably Scrouge-inspired stuff. I promise there are no Quilboars running around on giant spiders mounts in the Barrens. Okay, I can't promise. But it's almost certain.

Maybe.

[Harmonic]

And now I'm all itchy.

Thanks Mulebum

[Vooz]

Spiders? Undead pig men?

I approve of this. If nothing else, I can at least acquire a few piggy brains. For SCIENCE!

[Loxmardin]

One of the most obvious problems with this in its current form is the mini-CMC implication (which is, first of all, something that the staff as a whole need to agree on should this go up for staff review).

Mostly because every player only has one slot for a mini-CMC, and I'm not sure what the appeal'd be to spend it on a Quillboar to actually give this the fuel it would undoubtedly need to get off the ground if it were to pass through the system to the end.

Speaking for myself, I don't see a way for this to get off the ground with the current population we have on the server and even if we'd manage to get it started, it's going to fall into oblivion relatively soon unless a lot of other RP is abandoned in favor of Quillboar-in-the-Horde shenanigans.

Those are just my personal doubts, though.

[Maulbane]

I can kind of see that, but my understanding is that you've only got one slot for both mini-CMCs and full-CMCs anyway, so that's an inherent problem where the only real way to avoid it is to just not do anything in the first place, so I suppose I don't think there's much that can reasonably be said about it except to just balance it with positives. Were they set to mini-CMCs, they would also be available as full CMCs if they'd already used their mini-CMC slot, so I think that's the only real way that particular problem can be mitigated.

And yep, it'll be difficult to enact and may quickly be abandoned / peter out. This thread is part of the way to make sure people care about it enough to try it in the first place, and the storyline requirement is another check - if it fails, nothing happens, and for it to succeed there needs to be tangible player interaction and interest throughout. So, in that sense, it'd require fuel to actually make its way into officialisation in the first place.

This is coming from myself, but I personally wouldn't mourn the loss of other RP in the favor of Quilboar stuff, as long as it somehow didn't eclipse the entire server's RP - and, well, they're Quilboars, so I doubt that'll ever happen. So, in that event, from my perspective that is really a positive if it drags more people out of taverns.

I will say that, were it to succeed, I don't desire a massive playerbase in the first place - as low as three, five characters would really still convey similar things in-game if they were active, just as our existing CMCs manage to represent things usually impossible to do so, like our Dryads and Furbolgs and whatnot. That said, the custom lore here will have a sense of permanence and add to the world in of itself, so it isn't imperative that it be upheld by a lot of dedicated players like a lot of ideas require (The retaking of Stromgarde and its abandonment comes to mind, sadly). The fact that it exists and can be used to fuel future storylines is just as much of an advantage as players being able to make non-hostile Quilboar characters with established lore and a somewhat easier process to create.

For example on the above, lot of the ideas I pitched as reasons in terms of racial / factional friction are basically impossible currently. Forsaken / Quilboar interactions, entire unexplored (but neither overpowered nor silly) schools of magic that not even a special profile would really be able to justify training in, etc., which are, yeah - impossible. Even if not a single person - not even me, for whatever reason - actually rolled a character from whatever tribe would be the center of this custom lore, the lore would still be there and give people something to talk about, learn (I or a GM would still be able to puppet NPCs from whatever group it ends up being) from, interact with (whether with giant storylines or a few little RP sessions), etc.

That's my take on it! I think the positives and the permanence I see in the core idea on my part outweighs the very real problems with the actual implementation with players.

[Maulbane]

I need more feedback!

[Harmonic]

I need more feedback!

Honestly man, it all looks great. I'd probably try to roll one as my first CMC just so I could derp and squee at people while also using my extreme fear of spiders -against- people.

[Maulbane]

I need more feedback!

Honestly man, it all looks great. I'd probably try to roll one as my first CMC just so I could derp and squee at people while also using my extreme fear of spiders -against- people.

This reminded me to make a poll. I probably should have done that when I first made the thread, oops.

Either way - be sure to poke the poll on your thoughts! It's important, at least for this idea! (Probably not important for you)

EDIT: The poll is private, so feel free to vote whatever you want. Even if it weren't, I wouldn't mind - but just in case!

[Sorum]

Mhmmm,

I for one would love to see this happening, but there are also a few reasons why I would see this not working out. So let's begin: The Quillboars are a really nice race in my opinion but often very overlooked much like the Gnolls and the Kobolds. The RP they can provide is there, yes, and I would imagine it will be interesting to see the struggle of a tribe of somewhat intelligent Quillboars. I assume their leader would have to be rather smart to actually make his people be different than other tribes. The Quillboars fought other races for land for a few good centuries, why would they change now? I imagine it is a bit hard for them to change so suddenly, which means the only good reason behind it would be a -strong- -smart- leader they could follow as these little pigs follow strength.

I am not sure about how much RP a Quillboar CMC could spark up as I was and still am rather skeptical when it comes to CMCs sparking up RP. I would only see this being a thing if a bunch of other people go for the Quillboar CMCs, that way the group could offer much more. I'd personally would love to see a group of Quillboars entering Orgrimmar, the leader would be holding a map he couldn't even know how to read while another one just smacked one of his brothers after he tried to eat the pet lizard of a Troll. I would -love- to see how a tribe like this would progress, would it be the first tribe to attempt and unite the other tribes? Will the Quillboars finally become a fearsome race which will fight for The Horde in? Will Tauren even accept the Quillboars into Horde? And even if they do, will they forgive the Quillboars for the centuries of war? I have no idea, but I think there is nothing wrong with having this attempted. Yup, I'd love to see this happening, and I would definitely make a Quillboar to join the storyline.

[Maulbane]

Mhmmm,

I for one would love to see this happening, but there are also a few reasons which I would see this not working out. So let's begin: The Quillboars are a really nice race in my opinion, often very overlookedm much like the Gnolls and the Kobolds. The RP they can provide is there, yes, and I would imagine it will be interesting to see the struggle of a tribe of somewhat intelligent Quillboars. I assume their leader would have to be rather smart to actually make his people be different than other tribes. The Quillboars fought other races for land for a few good centuries, why would they change now? I imagine it is a bit hard for them to change so suddenly, which means the only good reason behind it would be a -strong- -smart- leader they could follow as these little pigs follow strength.

I have my methods! I'd say that, barring my own prejudices and biases, Quilboar are the most equipped as a playable race out of those you'd listed - the only other race that shows cunning, pragmatism and common sense (but not book-smarts in any form, outside of lore characters) would be the centaur, and I feel that they're more or less totally out of the question unless the pariah character makes a return. The Quilboar are known to have particularly smart leaders - or at the least, cunning and ambitious - especially looking at Mangletooth, who gets captured by the tauren and sold out by his brothers and manages to not only speak in high-quality Orcish during his incarceration, but plot the deaths of his enemies and those who betrayed him from behind bars and then escape and retake his position as leader of the Razorfen. In many ways, that surpasses both Varian and Thrall in terms of political skulduggery and pragmatism.

[Sorum]

To be fair, you got me a bit excited about this Quillboar stuff... So this better passes!