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Death Knights: Alive or Undead
#1
Are Death Knights alive or Undead? Personally i consider Death Knights to be alive (They not including Forsaken Death Knights). I mean shouldn't a human death knight be considered to be alive and not undead simply because humans are living beings. After all Arthas became a Death Knight after he killed his father but he was still a living being, just without a soul. I'v had people argue with me over this in the past and i created this topic to settle this issue once and for all. So let the discussion begin.
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#2
Game Mechanics don't matter, they are ICly undead. They died once, and were ressurected in the same sort of manner as Forsaken, but given powers and such.

Dead all the way, if not. Undead.
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#3
Kaelvan Wrote:Game Mechanics don't matter, they are ICly undead. They died once, and were ressurected in the same sort of manner as Forsaken, but given powers and such.

Dead all the way, if not. Undead.

They cannot all be ICly undead. Like i said Arthas was still alive when he became a Death Knight. He didnt die when he became one, he only lost his soul to frostmourn which is essentially losing all things that make us human such as feelings. He cannot feel joy or sadness, only emptytiess. But even though he lost his soul it didn't suck all the life out him making him an undead being.
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#4
Yeah, but he was also.. y'know. The champion of Nerzhul, the Lich King. Plus he had Frostmourne. That qualifies him to be a Death Knight. Arthas' powers don't even resemble that of a Death Knight. Two completely different things.
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#5
Kaelvan Wrote:Yeah, but he was also.. y'know. The champion of Nerzhul, the Lich King. Plus he had Frostmourne. That qualifies him to be a Death Knight. Arthas' powers don't even resemble that of a Death Knight. Two completely different things.

Well not now since he merged with Nerzhul, I'm talking before he merged when his powers did resemble that of a Death Knight
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#6
quickly browsed the wowiki and ended up with this:

Spoiler:
1st Generation: Death Knights of the Old HordeA first generation death knight was essentially the soul, knowledge, memory, and personality of an orc warlock that was imbued into the reanimated corpse of a fallen knight of Azeroth. Unlike modern death knights of the Scourge, these ghoulish fiends were not battle hardened warriors; they were insidious necromancers who possessed superior intellect and tremendous magical power. They often favored the use of terror tactics and reanimated the corpses of enemy soldiers who fell in battle to serve them as mindless undead minions. These skeletal soldiers served to shield the death knight from enemy attacks, allowing them to unleash their deadly eldritch sorcery from range.

2nd Generation: Death Knights of the ScourgeA second generation death knight were amongst a group of fallen paladins whose souls were twisted and bound to the will of the Frozen Throne [2]. Unlike death knights of the Old Horde, modern death knights are not limited to their use of ranged spell casting abilities. These former paladins are exceptionally skilled in the arts of physical combat. They retained the ability to cast death coil, increase allied movement, as well as raise the dead. They also gained the capacity to cast Death Pact to destroy a minion in return for health. In terms of relative strengths, modern Death Knights are more versatile than their first generation predecessors due to their ability to effectively engage enemies in the physical rigors of close quarters combat. However, both generations are equally destructive and terrifying to engage in the field of battle.

The will to fight against all oddsThe third generation of Death Knights were part of a collaborated effort on the part of the Lich King to bolster Acherus: The Ebon Hold's legions before marching on New Avalon. However, these Death Knights only constituted a portion of the Death Knights under the Lich King's command. Knights of the Ebon Blade had the unique opportunity to assist in the culling of the Scarlet Crusade from the Plaguelands.

In Wrath of the Lich King expansion the death knights are freed from the will of the Lich King and ally themselves with their respective, former factions. Working closely under the guiding blade of Highlord Darion Mograine and the bolstered Argent Crusade, these freed death knights have begun their march to Northrend.

Death Knights in Wrath of the Lich King are a new class mirroring their previous incarnations. While boasting powerful melee abilities, as well as plate armor, these warriors supplement their strength with dark magic. Calling upon a rune system of magic, the death knight may summon unholy, blood, and frost spells.

Conclusion:

1st Generation:

Soul of an orc warlock/necromancer put inside a dead body = technically undead



2nd Generation:

Dead paladins brought back to serve the scourge = undead



3rd Generation: (Note that this generation was only created by Blizzard in order for all races to be able to be deathknights = Game-Mechanics VS Lore argument is due)

Fallen soldiers of Azeroth brought back to serve the Lich King as a crazed attempt to improve his forces = undead



Super Conclusion:

Lore-wise all death knights are undeads of these races: human/dwarf (note that draenei paladins didnt walk on Azeroth during the time of most 2nd generation deathknights) (or the soul of an orc warlock in any other races body, most likely human or orc, least likely to be in a gnome, and quite impossible to be in the body of a draenei, since they were put in Azeroth heroes' bodies, and they didn't exist on Azeroth at that time)

Blizzards game-lore-ruining-mechanic-wise: undead of all possible races.

But according to what information is given, all death knights are dead, or souls inside dead bodies, with Arthas and some of those who followed him to Northrend as the only known exceptions. :) Hope that helps.


Edit: Did some edits on the super conclusion
[Image: 25jxl3r.png] ~ [Image: rap0jl.jpg] ~ [Image: 2rz9vtw.png]
- - - - Erie - - - - - - - - - Creezy - - - - - - - - Zarack - - - -
<Academy of Magic> ~ <G S F> ~ ~ <The Forgotten Shadow>
[Image: juzfbn.png]
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#7
We tend to see them somewhere between. The line between whether they are undead or something else so blurred it doesn't really matter.

Arthas isn't the only "Alive" death knight, many pledged themselves to his serice and didn't have to go throught he process of dying. Baron Rivendare is an example.

And a quote to seem cooler.
Quote:Much as Arthas had before them, these renegade paladins succumbed to bitter hatred over the course of their grueling quest. When they finally reached Ner'zhul's icy fortress in Northrend they had become dark and brooding. The Lich King offered them untold power in exchange for their services and loyalty. The weary, vengeful warriors accepted his dark pact, and although they retained their humanity, their twisted souls were bound to his evil will for all time. Bestowed with black runeblades and shadowy undead steeds, death knights serve as the Scourge's mightiest generals.

So overall:

It depends. We'll decide when we see the profile.
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#8
I thought it was up to the person making the Death Knight and not the GM to decide if they are undead or not. And a bit off topic, but if i where to make a Death Knight for example, could i have him ICly try to redeem himself? For instand if i made a Paladin and i then had him become a death knight through IC means, can he attempt to redeem himself and become a Paladin again? I know its off topic but it's a quick question.
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#9
Mikain Wrote:We tend to see them somewhere between. The line between whether they are undead or something else so blurred it doesn't really matter.

Arthas isn't the only "Alive" death knight, many pledged themselves to his serice and didn't have to go throught he process of dying. Baron Rivendare is an example.

And a quote to seem cooler.
Quote:Much as Arthas had before them, these renegade paladins succumbed to bitter hatred over the course of their grueling quest. When they finally reached Ner'zhul's icy fortress in Northrend they had become dark and brooding. The Lich King offered them untold power in exchange for their services and loyalty. The weary, vengeful warriors accepted his dark pact, and although they retained their humanity, their twisted souls were bound to his evil will for all time. Bestowed with black runeblades and shadowy undead steeds, death knights serve as the Scourge's mightiest generals.

So overall:

It depends. We'll decide when we see the profile.


As I agree with what youre saying, Mikain. I would think that one of those "alive" death knights are very unlikely if not impossibly able to break free of the lich kings command "
Quote:all time
", But I do believe that other rules may apply here at CotH and I respect them, as I respect whatever decisions you GMs put up regarding these things.




And to

Alpha2518 Wrote:I thought it was up to the person making the Death Knight
and not the GM to decide if they are undead or not.

I believe that the player makes a profile which states wether not the death knight is alive or not, but the finale word is the GMs approval, which ultimately decides if the alive/undead death knight is to be made at all
[Image: 25jxl3r.png] ~ [Image: rap0jl.jpg] ~ [Image: 2rz9vtw.png]
- - - - Erie - - - - - - - - - Creezy - - - - - - - - Zarack - - - -
<Academy of Magic> ~ <G S F> ~ ~ <The Forgotten Shadow>
[Image: juzfbn.png]
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#10
I dunno if people are allowed to have existing characters become Death Knights. <shrug>
Frogspawned: RAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!
Frogspawned: Frogspawned flips a table.
Frogspawned: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

FROG, STOP FLIPPING TABLES. YOU'RE MAKING A MESS.

Frogspawned: ┬─┬ ノ( ゜-゜ノ)
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#11
Well i looked althroughout the rules and FAQS, theres nothing there saying that you cant.
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#12
If Arthas did raise your said character, he would have to have an unusual amount of inner strength to resist the Lich King's power. I mean, it isn't like you can say. . ."Ta-da! I died in Northrend! Now Arthas raised me and I totally won myself from his control!" I mean . . . That would take months of RPing out.
[Image: anigif_mobile_9893b2566588ab845c7985f71769a9f2-7.gif]
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#13
It is impossible for an already established character to become one, for more reasons than I'm willing to go into. There's a nice long thread about it in the gm area and that's the conclusion we came to.
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#14
I would think that one of those reasons would be that in order for you existing character to become a Death Knight he would have to be raised as such, and therefore become a part of an NPC-hostile faction such as the Scourge, and it is against the rules to play a character of such faction, and it would take ALOT of time before your character would be able to ICly break the will of his master.

(as Cressy pointed out)
[Image: 25jxl3r.png] ~ [Image: rap0jl.jpg] ~ [Image: 2rz9vtw.png]
- - - - Erie - - - - - - - - - Creezy - - - - - - - - Zarack - - - -
<Academy of Magic> ~ <G S F> ~ ~ <The Forgotten Shadow>
[Image: juzfbn.png]
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#15
Cressy Wrote:If Arthas did raise your said character, he would have to have an unusual amount of inner strength to resist the Lich King's power. I mean, it isn't like you can say. . ."Ta-da! I died in Northrend! Now Arthas raised me and I totally won myself from his control!" I mean . . . That would take months of RPing out.

Well there has to be more then one way to become a Death Knight without the Lich King making me into one.
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