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Grakor Grumbles: Spirit Companions
#1
So, before I talk about this subject itself, let me start on a tangent. Particularly, I want to talk about the WoW d20 and my feelings on it, because they've both changed a little over time, and I also believe been misrepresented by both myself and others.

Here's the thing: the WoW d20 was created along with a multitude of other d20 games as a result of the particular licence used for Dungeons and Dragons 3rd edition. If your experiences with pen and paper systems are limited to the WoW d20, you might be rightfully confused as to what that actually means. In essence, many designers and publishers were given the rights to essentially create systems that were very similar to D&D 3rd, using roughly the same game mechanics. This is also apparent with the WoW d20, and leads to one of the main weaknesses of the d20 as a lore source: much of the information, especially pertaining to things like abilities, racial dimensions, and mechanics, are pulled directly from, or heavily inspired by, Dungeons and Dragons. This especially applies to prestige classes: Shadow Ascendant, as a random example, has a lot of things in common with the D&D Shadow Dancer.

Now, there -is- some good lore stuff in there, don't get me wrong. It's okay to draw certain amounts of inspiration, but you have to keep in mind a few things when you do so. One, mechanics are very different between a pen and paper game and the kind of more freeform roleplay that we do here. There's a good reason that we won't let you get your Wish or Miracle spell. Two, in-game stuff will always trump d20 stuff because d20 stuff isn't canon. And third, you have to be cautious when it comes to d20 lore because not everyone has access to read it all or wants to mess with it. There's more, and I could ramble on it longer, but for now my point is this: I don't hate d20 lore. There's good stuff in it. For example, I -love- the interpretations they gave for Spiritwalkers, and that's lore that I still use.

So, let's talk about ghostly characters!

Spirit companions for Spiritwalkers/Spirit Champions existed in the old prestige system, but the idea never gained much traction. Nonetheless, I'd like to posit their existence again because it's just too cool of lore to ignore, and does have at least some basis in the in-game characters that we see. The idea, essentially, would be the particularly ancestor-based shamanistic cultures being able to call upon the spirits of their ancestors/heroes/dead to fight with them once more. Now, I'll leave the specifics for personal interpretation, but I see this as being another possibility for a new type of "private discussion" kind of character concept, especially since we already do have transparency and ghostly aura trinkets that would work beautifully for this.

Especially because this would be another character concept that might spur on Horde RP, since this would be of particular interest for the Orc/Tauren/Troll characters.

Might ramble on this more, but it's a thought I had.
Have you hugged an orc today?
- I am not tech support. Please do not contact me regarding technical issues. -
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#2
It is a very cool concept that I would love to explore if I could shaman at all without looking like a dumb. Summoning your father to fight for you as you do your shaman thing? Yes. Hell yes. I would so approve of this. I would definitely approve of this.

Spoiler:
So long as you approve of me making custom lore for Varian Wrynn and those damnable Trials of the High King.
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#3
I've been contemplating that particular ability for some time, seeing as I have a Spirit Champion-to-be myself. While I may be biased in this matter, I can only say it's something I'd very much like to see.
[Image: 6RpTZgI.gif]
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#4
I can see this opening up a LOT of RP for several people. It'd add more populatiry to the shamanistic/ancestral sides of RP. Personally, I like playing support-type characters, so playing someone's dead dad to help them advance their story? You have my approval. I'm also trying to make a troll shadow hunter-to-be (distant future), so that might be really cool for his training, to have him literally get to talk to some spirits.

tl;dr - I approve!
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Lendri made me do it! Her signature sucked me in!

Spoiler:
[Image: 3801bacbd658b72b4b2b54b893f5ce535d54636d...264c_1.jpg]
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#5
I had always assumed the Spirit Champion's ability to meld into the spirit world or call physical manifestations of the ancestors would be considered a no-no and did not pursue the thought very far with Rentar. While it is still not detrimental to his concept (I'm more focused on the conflict between the demands of the ancestors vs. his own beliefs.) it would be an interesting addition to combat RP. Definitely one of those abilities that needs to be covered in PD though.
[Image: stonetalon-mountains.jpg?w=760]
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#6
(08-15-2013, 07:25 AM)Nikodemos Wrote: I had always assumed the Spirit Champion's ability to meld into the spirit world or call physical manifestations of the ancestors would be considered a no-no and did not pursue the thought very far with Rentar. While it is still not detrimental to his concept (I'm more focused on the conflict between the demands of the ancestors vs. his own beliefs.) it would be an interesting addition to combat RP. Definitely one of those abilities that needs to be covered in PD though.

Let me clarify: I'm thinking more along the lines of someone being able to roll the spirit-bro as a character itself. Something like this should be useful for much more than just combat RP. (The spiritwalker version of this in the d20 wasn't timed, the spirit-bro just hung around until he was forcibly banished (edit: or peacefully dismissed by the spiritwalker of course,) after which there was a delay before the spiritwalker could summon him again.)
Have you hugged an orc today?
- I am not tech support. Please do not contact me regarding technical issues. -
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#7
(08-15-2013, 08:41 AM)Grakor456 Wrote:
(08-15-2013, 07:25 AM)Nikodemos Wrote: I had always assumed the Spirit Champion's ability to meld into the spirit world or call physical manifestations of the ancestors would be considered a no-no and did not pursue the thought very far with Rentar. While it is still not detrimental to his concept (I'm more focused on the conflict between the demands of the ancestors vs. his own beliefs.) it would be an interesting addition to combat RP. Definitely one of those abilities that needs to be covered in PD though.

Let me clarify: I'm thinking more along the lines of someone being able to roll the spirit-bro as a character itself. Something like this should be useful for much more than just combat RP. (The spiritwalker version of this in the d20 wasn't timed, the spirit-bro just hung around until he was forcibly banished, after which there was a delay before the spiritwalker could summon him again.)

Now -that- is flippin' fun sounding.

I would totally play someones dead Orc father.
[Image: desc_head_freemasons.jpg]

△Move along.△


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#8
... I could see that as being interesting. Having some grumpy old dead Troll complaining about the Darkspear abandoning their old values.
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#9
Or some form of mentorship based on such....
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#10
I have used Grog's spirit companion (Spirit Champion ability) countless times during my time playing him and at times he even speaks with them openly. So Yea I like it and use it often because Grog is basically awesome, nice post Grak /nod.
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#11
We generally have not permitted players to play characters that are 'attached' to another. Hunter pets as the biggest example. Warlock pets are played, but generally these warlock pets are given a huge amount of independence in comparison to hunter pets.

Spirit companions are explicitly linked to a player character. It is literally a character being made specifically for a character, something I believe we've been against in the past. I don't think this should be done.
Quote:[8:53AM] Cassius: Xigo is the best guy ever. he doesn't afraid of anything.
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#12
(08-15-2013, 02:00 PM)Xigo Wrote: We generally have not permitted players to play characters that are 'attached' to another. Hunter pets as the biggest example. Warlock pets are played, but generally these warlock pets are given a huge amount of independence in comparison to hunter pets.

Spirit companions are explicitly linked to a player character. It is literally a character being made specifically for a character, something I believe we've been against in the past. I don't think this should be done.

I spent a while thinking about it, but I honestly can't understand the reasoning behind this. Is there a thread I can read or a post, or something?




Move him into the sun—
Gently its touch awoke him once,
At home, whispering of fields half-sown.
Always it woke him, even in France,
Until this morning and this snow.
If anything might rouse him now
The kind old sun will know.

Think how it wakes the seeds,—
Woke, once, the clays of a cold star.
Are limbs, so dear-achieved, are sides,
Full-nerved—still warm—too hard to stir?
Was it for this the clay grew tall?
—O what made fatuous sunbeams toil
To break earth’s sleep at all?
[Image: 62675bf4fd.jpg] [Image: 0e7357dcfe.jpg]
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#13
(08-15-2013, 02:00 PM)Xigo Wrote: We generally have not permitted players to play characters that are 'attached' to another. Hunter pets as the biggest example. Warlock pets are played, but generally these warlock pets are given a huge amount of independence in comparison to hunter pets.

Spirit companions are explicitly linked to a player character. It is literally a character being made specifically for a character, something I believe we've been against in the past. I don't think this should be done.

I'd say that if warlock demons are allowable, then this would be as well. At the end of the day, warlock demons are far less independent: they are bound to the warlock in question and unable to disobey his orders.

In comparison, spirits come to a shaman because they -want- to. They'd have far more freedom in comparison.
Have you hugged an orc today?
- I am not tech support. Please do not contact me regarding technical issues. -
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#14
(08-15-2013, 02:00 PM)Xigo Wrote: We generally have not permitted players to play characters that are 'attached' to another. Hunter pets as the biggest example. Warlock pets are played, but generally these warlock pets are given a huge amount of independence in comparison to hunter pets.

Spirit companions are explicitly linked to a player character. It is literally a character being made specifically for a character, something I believe we've been against in the past. I don't think this should be done.

Yet we allow Necromancer and Death Knight ghouls to be played and those also are explicitly linked to a PC. I see this as really being no different from that and think it would be a grand amount of fun.
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#15
As far as the topic goes, I'm going to extend a tendril and say that I'd be more than willing to play anybody's spirit companion. Be it ghost-dad, ghost-pal or ghost-enemy. If it's done properly - like, the character makes sense and everything - I think this could be one of the coolest veins of RP ever. Imagine communicating with the spirit of someone you weren't really fond of (and the flip-side) in life, for example - it's a dynamic that I have serious doubts has ever been done before.

I've rarely considered the spirit side of things (well, people spirits, not the element-y kind), but I think it's something that should be done. S'long as it's done tastefully.




Move him into the sun—
Gently its touch awoke him once,
At home, whispering of fields half-sown.
Always it woke him, even in France,
Until this morning and this snow.
If anything might rouse him now
The kind old sun will know.

Think how it wakes the seeds,—
Woke, once, the clays of a cold star.
Are limbs, so dear-achieved, are sides,
Full-nerved—still warm—too hard to stir?
Was it for this the clay grew tall?
—O what made fatuous sunbeams toil
To break earth’s sleep at all?
[Image: 62675bf4fd.jpg] [Image: 0e7357dcfe.jpg]
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