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My opinion differs depending on the type of custom lore. Because 'custom' lore in a sense is what I had a problem with. There being no proof to support OR disprove an idea was possible, so someone took it upon themself to decide what they preferred and enforced that opinion with their powers as a staff member.
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I've observed that cliques mostly have to do with what certain people are interested in playing and the dependabilities that result from that rather than position on the server (not to say that could also play into it in certain cases).

(10-22-2013, 11:10 AM)Aadora Wrote: And what is it that the staff are always so busy doing. So far it's been made out to sound like they are nonstop working. In my mind, I picture the staff sitting in cubicals constantly tapping on a typewriter or scribbling across a document. But I doubt it's anything like that in reality.

So far it's been written off as things like "Staff stuff" without much detail. I'm not even sure what it is the staff does besides enforce the rules and work on profiles. As for taking so much out of free time to work on profiles...

You go to the profile section right now and there are 4 profiles in there. Only one of those profiles would take me personally more than maybe 10 minutes max to read through. Give me an hour and I could probably have those four profiles spell-checked and be close to, if not finished with checking that they match up with lore and server policy.

As for this, I wasn't meaning to say that the entire team is filled with people who have very little time on their hands, and free time was only one of my points/reasons for why there might be a rift between staff and players - I elaborated on that point at a personal level because it's my case, taking 16 credit hours and having a weekend job at the moment. Some staff members don't invest as much time as others do, as Lox mentioned.

As for the time it takes to read and make suggestions, everyone has a different pace, and mine is a bit longer than what you said you could do yourself, and that amount of time, in the midst of all of the other things I'd like to do with my free time, takes up a solid fraction of it.

Quote:But in all seriousness, before we start to detract from any issues at hand---we need to quit looking for some deep dark secret burried away in those mean ol' GM vaults we can't see, and tackle the real problems we can see--- strictness, stagnation, and the general un-approachableness of CoTH right at the moment.

This would be a pleasant direction to direct this thread, since these are indeed the issues at hand, along with the turnover of new players that come to the server, and what can be done about keeping them interested enough to commit to RPing here.
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As someone who's had new players in a guild and had to watch them leave because of being banned I think the issue really is cliques. Most of the people in the DR (Dawns Reach) who were active (Or about half) were new players. Most of whom none of you will ever know. DE is one of my closest friends from the DR, and only those who were in the DR would know about him. After I got banned he stopped coming online. There was nothing else for him. Why? There was nothing for him to join. Nothing for him to participate in.

When I first came onto the server as a new player I had the same issue. I couldn't get into rp. And the RP I did actually get into? I wasn't really there or important. I felt more like an npc which sucked. @Reigen and @ThePharaoh were two people I had amazing rps with and neither of them remembered me from those first days.

I idle now in then in GMI and occasionally I hear something about how new players suck. Yeah, I reported it. But any new player that was around then? Probably didn't want to come back to the server. You want to keep new players? Invite them into rps. Bring them under your wing. I remember a post about that. A shadowing program for peons to follow volunteer grunts around and get into rps. Make connections with people. Seems a bit silly, but with connections comes a reason to stay.

I wouldn't have left for the six months that I did if I just had someone to rp with when I first got here. Be that person. Reach out and rp with new people daily. You'll be shocked at meeting people you really like but never would have known if you stayed with just those you normally rp with.
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  • MstrCorvus
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That's the issue with forming friend groups on the server. People who join these groups or are a part of them tend to only spend their time with other members of said group. So people outside are alienated not just by feeling looked down on or feeling like they aren't worth the time of these groups, but rather that there aren't hardly ever calls for RP because people are too busy with other members of their groups, or when those calls ARE made nobody answers because people would rather RP with others of their group.

It's much like Kage said. Imagine playing a game for the first time that doesn't take you apart from the more veteran players.

For example games like Halo. You start out with your rank as SR1. That may not mean anything. You could be like me and have been playing since Halo 1 and go in as an SR1 and play really well compared to what people expect. But the expectations are still there. Just like with new players to the server. When people don't know anything about a person, especially over the internet, they tend to expect the worst.

And speaking those feelings gives the server a feeling of not wanting to teach new players, not expecting much from them, and a general unwillingness to put up with them. Pretty much, the very meaning of elitest.

(10-22-2013, 04:27 PM)Geoni Wrote: I wasn't meaning to say that the entire team is filled with people who have very little time on their hands, and free time was only one of my points/reasons for why there might be a rift between staff and players - I elaborated on that point at a personal level because it's my case, taking 16 credit hours and having a weekend job at the moment. Some staff members don't invest as much time as others do, as Lox mentioned.

You may not, but the most common complaint I hear from the staff is that they hardly have any time for themselves, and that's what causes them to be distanced from friends and other members of the server. My closest friend said that was the reason. They they were busy with "staff stuff". This as a reason for not talking to me for a month straight.
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I wanna put out that I RP with anyone if they're free. Regardless of my friends, how long they've been on the server and whatnot. Heck, I've only been here eight months or so (Wow, I'm really new) but I feel like an included member of the community and I have since day 1.
“Fairy tales do not tell children that dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children that dragons can be killed.”
— G.K. Chesterton

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Have a puppy Ruby and a nice day.
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  • Ormica
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I... am not sure what to say at this point and I guess it doesn't really matter, but... There is one thing I suppose I can say, and that is that we have been working on something for a while to at least address the issue with new players and integrating people into the community more. We hope we'll be able to launch it soon, once we've ironed out the last few details, but it's in the works and will hopefully help.

We've every intention of seeing this one launched, so that's not an empty promise. ;)
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Let the grunts take them under their wing~ Dooo iiiittttt (I'll do it anyway :| )
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Okay I may not have been on since the Cata switch in game but from what I remember... everyone I knew helped the peons, hell I don't even know all the stuff :P So wheres that mood? The RR let just about everyone in, the events are for all and all that good stuff so it may be something we can't help. I have a friend who joined CotH and loved it, but he just stopped playing. Of course I asked him why in RL and he said he didn't really know, just his motivation gave out. Hoped the rant helped >.>
In darkness we are born, in shadows we are raised

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK4h9xR7Dec
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  • Kage
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I actually choked on my Red Bull when I saw Ormica posted.

After like, a long time... ERMIKERS BERK
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  • Kage
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From what I remember of the events I went to, either it was combat where everyone participated except the DM decided what happened. I went an entire event without rolling a single hit or dodge. I finally got a hit. Rolled a 100.

What the DM said: The ghoul falls over dead.

Someone else had been rolling hits the whole time. They rolled a 100.

What the DM said: The bullet hits a ghoul right between the eyes and breaks through to kill two more enemies behind it. Triple kill!

Or there are the social events, in which the groups tend to come into play and people gather in little groups around the area so socialize amongst themselves.

I've had a few good events, but most of them just consisted of me not really catching a break with rolls.

I don't mean to just throw out negativity and bad experiences at every turn, but... it's what I got.

The chances for people to get involved are there yes, but I don't think many new players feel welcome and even some older players don't. It may be open to all, doesn't mean they feel welcome.
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Brick 
Obviously the solution to all our problems is to bring back vouches for gruntship. The ball's in your court now, staff!

EDIT: Also, a ruling on how prevalent and how high-tech firearms are in the Warcraft lore.

EDIT2: Uh, also, giving Maulbane .addgo, .delobject, .moveobject, .targetobject and .turnobject for recreational use.

EDIT3: I swear these things'll fix everything.




Move him into the sun—
Gently its touch awoke him once,
At home, whispering of fields half-sown.
Always it woke him, even in France,
Until this morning and this snow.
If anything might rouse him now
The kind old sun will know.

Think how it wakes the seeds,—
Woke, once, the clays of a cold star.
Are limbs, so dear-achieved, are sides,
Full-nerved—still warm—too hard to stir?
Was it for this the clay grew tall?
—O what made fatuous sunbeams toil
To break earth’s sleep at all?
[Image: 62675bf4fd.jpg] [Image: 0e7357dcfe.jpg]
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  • Cressy
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The biggest thing for me, that's keeping me away, is that there's no real -intriguing- RP to be found, or very little anyway. The events are all well and good, when you can work your way into them, but like has been going on for a while now people seem to stick to their core groups. I myself am affected by this. It's a caste that's hard to break out of.

Outside of that, another big deal for me is the lack of conflict! IC conflict is huge. Even small stuff, like a fist fight outside a bar, or a person haggling with a merchant. Small stuff like a derisive jab aimed to hurt add realness, a textured feel to the world. As it is now, financial RP is borderline non-existent.

Here's a hypothetical that I see go down more often than not:

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Innkeeper: "What can I do yer fer?"

Adventurer: "A pint for me, and a pint for the whole bar!"

Crowd: "Yay!"

Innkeeper: "Well, that's a doosey, that'll run ye' 20 silvers."

Adventurer: between scoffs, sets a sack of precounted coins on the counter "Only 20? What a bargain."

I mean, it's not what goes on that bugs me, but what doesn't go on. Instead of that, the conversation could go as follows:

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Innkeeper: "What can I do yer fer?"

Adventurer: "A pint for me, and a pint for the whole bar!"

Innkeeper leans in close, gesturing for the adventurer to pull in closer. Her perks a brow: "Ye sure ya gots the coins for that, lad?"

Adventurer scoffs: "The weight of my purse is neigh limitless!"

Innkeeper himself scoffs, by now realizing he'll need to spell it out: "It'll run ya's 20 silvers, coin, not openin' a tab fer ya ta' waste my ale."

Adventurer pulls back from the bar, digging around in his purse a moment. He puffs his cheeks as he counts silently: "...teen, eighteen, nineteen, twenty. Some kind of racket you're running her, but I don't back down." Adventurer then hands the man a fistful of silvers.

Conflict, even things that seem petty, hell, especially the things that seem petty, add so much more flavor to the world. They make it a world worth living and being in.

But that's not the upwards limit of my complaint. I have a character, Liridon, a Farstrider who fought and bled in many battles for his nation. He holds a lot of animosity for the Blood Knights, as many Farstriders do. I make it a point to bring this animosity up, antagonize Blood Knights. In every occasion, spare one, Liridon is ignored. Either outright ignored or the Blood Knight being antagonized simply shrugs it off, offering that he might be getting a bit excited. Yes, he is, that's the point. I've purposely been a bit offensive with him at social events, as a lifetime special forces soldier might be when told specifically not to step on toes, trying to coax a response, often to no avail. Even when there is a response there's a 'hands off' approach to handling it. People will dance around the subject without directly addressing it, or just emote a stray glare.

I guess what I'm saying is people are too passive. They just drift. They don't want conflict. Possibly because they're told conflict is bad. Possibly because that's them as a person. But the conflict makes characters seem so much more alive. All I'm asking is for something between the cold shoulder and a gentleman's duel. Where's my middle ground? Where's my drunken fist fight? Where's my heated, namecalling, mudslinging argument?
[Image: tle2012sportsliridontar.gif]
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I agree so much with up above.

I think again though it's just because everyone's worried about OOC perception these days, and there isn't ever any real threat or anything. It's all this... "Ahh, I'll just be able to sit and RP."

It feels more like a heavy amount of social conversation than actually doing anything constructive.
[Image: desc_head_freemasons.jpg]

△Move along.△


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  • landashua
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Well, to be fair, we won't and can't force the players who don't want to partake in any conflict to actually do so. ... We'll definitely look into ways we could generate natural conflict, though, since this is a problem we've discussed in the staff for some time as well.
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I too agree that conflict is an integral part of good RP, but I argue that this is another symptom of the main problem behind most feelings of boredom towards CotH RP - IC stagnation. People don't RP because it doesn't achieve anything - it's like playing an RPG where you have to restart the game every time you play it, and the only sign of progress is your own word.

I've long been a proponent of creating a more D&D-esque style of RP on CotH that gives many players what they signed up for - immersion, being able to interact with the world. I know that's why I joined. I don't really mean assigning five players to a DM and just playing D&D on CotH, rather having the immersion, the changing world, the alive world that we all love. Creating conflict and drama would be a natural product from this change. It would also make the GMs a lot more accessible and close to the community - if they're often hanging around, helping out RPers and making the world a more interesting place, their good sides will be more exposed and they get to truly be GMs, not just moderators.
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