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I did report them for one or two things. Other times it was their behavior towards other people directly and publicly insulting others and cursing at them. And the people their behavior was aimed at said that they reported the person. But I never saw anything done. I didn't see them get banned or their behavior change. And the things they said, not to mention the fact they had done it before and after that did it again... they should have been banned long ago. But never were.

But in a situation like that, what are you to do? I mean sure, I or my friend could have taken it to Kretol or Grakor and said here's what they said, we never saw anything done about it.

But the problem wasn't really that we didn't feel a need to pursue their punishment. It was moreso that as far as we could see, the clique they were a part of wasn't just being a favorite of one or two GMs or something like that. In our eyes, most of the staff were together in this. Their behavior towards these people was much different, and much more respectful and friendlier than it was with us and others.

As far as we could tell, pursuing punishment for this person's actions would just get us in even more trouble since they had so many people on their side.

And one time it did. Much of the server was turned against me and a couple others just on the word of the person that started it. And nothing we said could change people's mind, and in the end we got banned for trying to defend ourselves.
Cliques are only bad when you don't let other people join in.
Your stories will always remain...
[Image: nIapRMV.png?1]
... as will your valiant hearts.
[-] The following 1 user Likes CappnRob's post:
  • Rini
A lot of the times when GMs/other staff members are in trouble, they go through similar processes that players do. You have a certain amount of warnings 'n what have you. Are talked to by either Grakor or Kretol and punished accordingly.
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It's important to remember something about "defending yourself".

Most of the time, arguing a decision in public is not the right way to go. I don't know how many times I have preached this in my many years on the server. The Rules on the Wiki also state, in bold text, the following:

Quote:Remember that above all else, a GM's word is final, and you should always follow their direction. If you have any comments regarding the GM's word, or if you disagree with it, FOLLOW IT WITHOUT ARGUING (so as to avoid any unnecessary drama or further issues). After which, feel free to contact Grakor with any concerns, if necessary.

If the staff member is wrong, confronting them about it right out there in public on the forums is usually not the way to go. Discussion threads like these are different; here, we're all just discussing our opinions on things with one another as fellow community members. When it comes to decisions made regarding, say, if a profile is valid and clear for approval or not? If the staff can't be convinced (in a respectful, constructive manner instead of protesting and defending yourself as if the decision is personal against you; it isn't, I'll tell you that right now), then take it up with the admins. They can, will and have reprimanded staff members many times if they receive reports and complaints. As a member of staff, I can say that there is nothing more terrifying than hearing Kretol, in his serious voice, say; "I need to talk to you."

There seems to be no faith in the professionalism of the staff. A lot of people assume that denials are personal; they pretty much never are. But because of that assumtion, the argument that springs up in the wake of that denial is going to put a lot of people off, staff as well as fellow members, because the tone suddenly gets very toxic.

Ramble. I'm not sure where I was going with this. Oh well.
[-] The following 1 user Likes Loxmardin's post:
  • Cressy
I know why some people can feel like that "Doing it in public" is the way to go. And a lot of time it's because then you -know- exactly what is happening, and the reactions. It's not a good thing, I'm not saying that. It's as bad to attack a GM openly and in public as it is another player.

However, a good look at why this intimidates people is private discussion. I hate private discussions. I loathe them. The reason is, is because -often-, you make one, and if it's something you know the GM's might possibly disagree with, it feels like you're wandering into a lion's den alone. Suddenly, you're topic has five responses, all of them saying the same thing about how they don't agree with you, and all those posts have six likes by all the GM's that also posted.

It's intimidating, and it feels futile---because when doing that---gm's don't get to see "Hey, I might have support too. Look, I may not be popular with you guys but some -players- agree with me on this."

I'll be honest, it's easy... when you're a GM... with other GM's who can be jerks... to just turn your blinders on and say "Well, anyone can report us! Trust me, we do get in trouble!". I bet. I bet that there's been GM's that have been talked to. But, we as players get no notifications, no assurance, and no word that the person has been punished. And, often times, that GM will go right back to their old habbits, and it makes us feel powerless. Especially if we are the one person that has to deal with it over and over.

I've been called a whiner/sensitive over that crap before. Rather than being listened to, it's been assumed that I'm the one with the problem and not the other person in question. As a whole, yes, sometimes it can be hard to approach the GM team especially when it's over a GM that's got a lot of buddies on the GM team.

Why? Because a lot of you like to say "I've never had a problem, it must not exist." Sorry guys, it -does- happen. It just does.
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△Move along.△


[-] The following 3 users Like Harmonic's post:
  • Kage, Aethon, Etmosril
Or you can just post an idea in the general discussion thread and let everyone discuss it.

Private discussion exists so you alone can have privacy in discussion with the GMs. If you want something to be open to discussion, then post it where it can be open to discussion ya nincompoop.

Though it sounds less to me like you want a discussion and more like you want a mob of chaps backing you up and going YEAH WE DISAGREE WITH YOU GMS which is rather silly.
Quote:[8:53AM] Cassius: Xigo is the best guy ever. he doesn't afraid of anything.
I believe he's talking about "X is being a jerk!" Xigo.
[-] The following 1 user Likes Kage's post:
  • Harmonic
That, as well as topics that are asked by GM's to be put up there instead of the regular forums.

Edit: Also the whole "YEAH WE DON'T AGREE WITH THE GM'S" thing takes it far. Although, it feels like in PD? It's "YEAH, WE GM'S DON'T AGREE WITH YOU!" *Spams the like button*
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△Move along.△


When you go up to a group of people with the intention of saying that one of them is doing something wrong, well it is a -very- intimidating situation. Especially when these people have more power then you, and influence. I'd like to have some people at my back if I were to report a GM.

Then again if the extreme happens and I make a PD about x gm not doing their job right (I don't think there's any gm not doing their job right though) and I was met with extreme backlash I'd either copy said thread and send it to Kretol or copy and post publicly for the sake of "I need help guys". It's not so intimidating where you know you can just copy the thread and show people what happens.

Oh, no this doesn't actually happen. The GMs are good people and really aren't jerks on this server. I've seen other GMs on other servers who made it their mission to rip and tear someone apart because they don't like them and had the other GMs at their back. I'm just pointing out that there are some things that can be done if the PD turns hostile (I don't think it ever will though..)
If it's something already disliked by the GM team as a whole, it doesn't really matter how much support an idea has otherwise. Sure, it's possible to change the minds of individual GMs, but you should know as well Harmonic that there's more to making any changes and approving any ideas than just that. Some things are out of our hands and if something disagrees with the current policies we adhere to, no matter what they are, then we can like the idea all we want but that doesn't mean it's possible or doable at that point in time.

Ideas are turned down for a wide variety of reasons, but there are always reasons. These reasons generally don't change because a larger amount of people agree to say the same thing. Sometimes, steps can be taken to change the factors that prevent certain ideas from ever coming to fruition. Most of the time, though, too much would have to change too quickly for it to be plausible. Then, it might just be that there's no available manpower for certain ideas to get off the ground (in the case of grand storylines).

The reason, most of the time, that such discussions are asked to be moved into private? Because it flows much smoother then. It stays on topic. It rarely does when left out in the public because a bunch of people feel the need to get involved and more often than not will drive the topic off the side of the road which, really, makes it all that much more difficult to reach a good conclusion and leave everyone the time they need to think it through. It's also because of what I mentioned in an earlier post. People get so easily disappointed because they get their expectations up and if we can prevent that until we know for sure what we can and cannot do, that's generally what we do try to opt for. Some discussions just aren't mature for the public, and some are just magnets for vastly unnecessary drama.

You don't see GMs reprimanded for the same reason you don't see your fellow players reprimanded unless they're banned or suspended. Or, in a GM's case, demoted. Reports are treated the same way in those cases as they're treated for any other player. Like I've also said before in another thread; not every report leads to action, but every report is recorded. It's up to the reported player/GM to take the criticism to heart, and for the rest of the GMs to look at the report from an objective point of view, in context, and figure out what happened from there.

This goes for everyone; Please, stop expecting things to happen just because you ask for/want them to. I know that is a blunt way of saying it, but there really is no other way to say it.
You're right, I don't expect things to happen every time. That's silly and irrational to think that it would happen. I'm not speaking for anyone here, or agreeing with what anyone else has said, I was speaking from my own perspective, and from that perspective I will be blunt and honest back, it sometimes appears---APPEARS (not saying it's absolutely that way) that there is a fair bit of bias when it comes to GM's and interactions.

Along with this, little ol' CoTH has waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much gossip. I do it too. Everyone does it. But it's stupid. We are all stupid for doing it.
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△Move along.△


Can't fix it either. You could be more open about punishment, but that wouldn't be fair to those being punished. Could stay the same way, but people will think nothing happens. In short, Coth Gossip will always exist and you can't get rid of it. Just agree that its there, accept you can't, and press on to new things. Gossip was around when we were at our highest point, and at our lowest. So move on from it and fix the other issues.
Yep. Gossip won't go away. It's hopeless to try and make it.

Ultimately, I guess people just need to take things with a grain of salt more often. "What actually happened" isn't the same as "What you think happened", and most definitely not the same as "What you tell others happened". Then again, usually neither of the involved parties in "What actually happened" know "What actually happened". And even if they do, they can't exactly tell everyone about it most of the time.

Well, personally speaking, I'm going through Senior year right now, applying to schools, preparing auditions, and that itself is hard to manage, and then I've got all this classwork and scenework, working on the show I'm in right now and BLAGH

I tried to log in for a while for RP when I could, be it event or casual, but I could rarely make it to events and whenever I logged on for casual RP I couldn't get any started and ended up chatting in GMI (or whatever we're calling it now haha)

I do think about CotH sometimes, and really want to be active again...
[Image: Ml7sNnX.gif]
Well this died rather abruptly. Kind of alarming. So to the people who are left (Cause I've noticed more and more people are leaving), why do you stay? What is it that keeps you on Coth when others are leaving? Maybe your reasons will help other people stay. I'm looking for a reason myself now. So, Why are you still here on Coth?

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