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I agree with Maarten's second paragraph. Respect is earnt not just given and if someone doesn't respect you, why do they deserve your respect? But I think upon first meeting someone, you should be respectful until they show that they don't want to respect you back.
“Fairy tales do not tell children that dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children that dragons can be killed.”
— G.K. Chesterton

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Have a puppy Ruby and a nice day.
Er. So I edited my post three ages ago (Damn this thread got a huge amount of posts suddenly) and what I tried to say was lost. And I do view it as something important, so Imma repost it below (Hate it if you want).

(11-08-2013, 11:37 PM)Kretol Wrote: I also keep reading about all this downright horrible stuff that is happening or has happened, but I... really don't recall anything of note. My memory may be bad, but I also think things may be blown out of proportion a bit.

Blown out of proportion or not you are -loosing- members. People who have been here for -years- are leaving. If people weren't leaving? I'd agree. But people are -leaving- the server. Don't just tell the people kind enough to let you know why that they are poofing that they're just exaggerating. I know a lot of x members (Yeah, that's what they consider themselves now) who say pretty much the same thing and don't want to post on here. Why? Cause they don't care anymore.

Once more, felt it needed to be said. Do with it what you will.
[-] The following 1 user Likes Kage's post:
  • Rini
It is unfortunate, but I do believe there are some exaggerations, or in some cases differences of opinion. While it's true everything is not exaggerated, the amount of time someone has been here does not mean all of their reasons are with complete merit or unexaggerated.
That said, the examples recently submitted have been verified, but I still haven't really seen anything as horrendous as what has been made out. Are there other specific examples that people would care to submit?
I Am the Sea

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Try to never just say, "My character isn't interested in that adventure." A lot of people mistake this for good roleplaying, because you are asserting your character's personality. Wrong. Good roleplaying should never bring the game to a screeching halt. One of your jobs as a player is to come up with a reason why your character would be interested in a plot. After all, your personality is entirely in your hands, not the DM's. Come up with a reason why the adventure (or the reward) might appeal to you, no matter how esoteric or roundabout the reasoning. -(Source)
[-] The following 3 users Like Kretol's post:
  • Cressy, c0rzilla, Loxmardin
In a restaurant someone can come up to you and say they found a hair in their soup. You -never- tell them to prove it. Why? You loose the customer.

Is this different? Yeah, but not by much. Sorry that myself and others don't take screen shots when we feel harassed and just leave the situation. S'not how people work. Sometimes you just -can't- verify the horrid things, and expecting people to wont help this server. The point is, there are these issues. More then -one- person has said so. You don't need proof when you got six or seven people -telling you flat out- that they see this stuff happening.

Stop trying to fix the past and focus on preventing it further. Or you can just watch as this server dwindles down to the GM team and their closer friends. Once more, no more sugar coating. You keep loosing members, so no more trying to be nice. These issues -need- to have better prevention for future cases. Not a lot of people I talk to trust the GM team. Personally? I'm indifferent. I don't know enough about what they do behind the scenes to trust them or distrust them, but I know enough to not go either way.

TL;DR- Stop asking for proof and address the issues and put new rules in to help fix it.

On another note, GM team. Stop doing so many different things at once. I know there are three different discussions going on about different things. Character Death, Runemasters, and a third I can't remember. There is probably more. Focus on one and resolve it, then move on to the next issue and repeat. I don't mean to tell you how to do your job, but more often then not you don't seem like you're doing a lot because you spend a little bit of time on each issue, then suddenly crank out four or five new rules in the span of a week with many months in between.

If I'm wrong about that, let me know. But from some of the conversations I've had and posts I've seen, you're trying to do a lot instead of focusing on one topic.
A hair isn't an extremely subjective issue. Three people won't look at the hair and debate about its length, or coarseness, or how it might conflict with the flavor. It's a hair. It's a physical object, unable to be contested. Unless someone puts it in a box and calls it Schrodinger's Hair. You toss it out, then get a new bowl of soup. Done.

However, on the issue of how...apparently terrible and fraught our server is with viper like tongue-lashings...it is very subjective. So, the team cannot take anyone's word for it, no matter how many people say it's so. You ask them to prevent it? How? How can they when they don't know what to prevent, if you cannot offer proof or verification?

This issue of acidity you bring up is only one issue, even if it affects you personally, and even it's your only issue. There are many more things that affect the server than potential caustic attitudes.

And I think you're very wrong on the work the team is doing. I like seeing such a variety in topics.
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[-] The following 5 users Like c0rzilla's post:
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A few weeks ago, I was reported to the GMs for something I'd said 'aloud' on GM Island. I believe that I was complaining about the state of current roleplay and lamenting the disappearance of old friends. It should have been a private conversation, I admit upon reflection, but I didn't notice unrelated additional people on the island 'til it was too late. In that sense, it was a private talk that was in the public domain. There were three others online besides myself; the person I was talking to, someone out in the world doing dailies, and the reporter.

Throughout mine and the my friend's conversation, the other person was silent. Neither of us were asked to quieten down or take it elsewhere. There was never any indication that the individual in question was affronted.

A GM approached me over Skype regarding the report. I was not warned, nor suspended, nor banned for what I'd said. I hadn't explicitly broken any rules, after all. Just said some stuff that obviously rubbed someone's fur the wrong way. Since the brief talk me and that GM had, I've refrained from making further careless comments in public channels.

For the sake of my confidentiality, the result would never have been publicly aired, and I doubt the reporter was informed regarding what came as a result of their report. As such, here you go. Cause, effect, and an outcome that you couldn't possibly be happier with.

My point? Things do happen if you raise the issue. No, I wasn't punished tangibly, but I didn't do anything tangible, to be fair. If anyone would like the logs (which were sent back to me) to decide for themselves, you're welcome to PM me and I'll send 'em freely in their uncensored glory.

Quote:Is this different? Yeah, but not by much. Sorry that myself and others don't take screen shots when we feel harassed and just leave the situation. S'not how people work. Sometimes you just -can't- verify the horrid things, and expecting people to wont help this server. The point is, there are these issues. More then -one- person has said so. You don't need proof when you got six or seven people -telling you flat out- that they see this stuff happening.

But if there's no evidence, how can you expect the GMs to act on it? Would you like them to level suspensions and bans against individuals when there's no proof they even did anything? I have no doubt that unpleasant things are said sometimes--I'm guilty of that, as you can see--but what is the use in complaining if you won't act?
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I think a big problem is that a good number of roleplayers are incredibly touchy, and incredibly quick to take offense.

There's way too many little mini-feuds going on. People gotta chill.
Quote:[8:53AM] Cassius: Xigo is the best guy ever. he doesn't afraid of anything.
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When people are bullied, it's a hard thing to prove. Especially when the people being bullies are friends with GMs. Even more so when they are GMs. If you know how the rules work, you'd only make it so it's harder to prove you're guilty because of it.

As a note, I'm not saying that's what you did Delta.

Also.. I think I'm being misunderstood. @c0rzilla thats.. What I meant. You don't tell the person that their wrong and you act and fix the issue. .. You literally repeated what I was trying to say. What I meant as the reason behind it wasn't so.. Literal though. I meant you don't tell the customer that there never was a hair and their exaggerating, and then tell them you have other issues to attend to.

This may just be one smaller issue, but I remember a post about how Coth is just filled with small issues. Fix the problems you know are there.

Cause there are a lot of posts, I'm answering randomly. As to how to fix the issue, I'm not saying make things striker. I'm not saying slap the ban on someone doing something wrong. But.. A good bully won't get caught. Specially over the internet. What doesn't seem offensive to a whole might seem completely offensive to a single person.

On the topic of GMs bouncing around different topics.

X gm team bounces around five ideas/issues. At the end of five months, they get all the ideas/issues finished and bring them out.

Y gm team focuses on one idea/issue out of the five at a time until they are finished. They finish one idea a month. At the end of five months they have the same amount of work done.

And that's it on my part for a bit! Gonna take Xigo's advice there and go chill for a while. Clearly I'm not saying things people like so Imma just gonna shut up for a bit and let others talk!
Kage Wrote:When people are bullied, it's a hard thing to prove. Especially when the people being bullies are friends with GMs. Even more so when they are GMs.

On Skype? In-game? All it takes is a screenshot and talking to a GM to get something done. Bullying is not a hard thing to prove when you're online and can just take a screenshot. And saying it's a GM bullying you? Which GM? Why haven't you come forward? Those few sentences get to me because it seems like you don't trust anyone on the GM team, especially with that last sentence. We're not secret club. GMs have been banned before. Nothing can get done if you don't provide a screenshot and talk to one of us about whatever problems you have with a player, no matter what color their forum name is.

Kage, you got me on Skype. You can tell me about whatever problems you have with players or GMs. Why aren't you talking to us?
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To emphasize on what Mathias is saying, you can always use the PD as well. Then there's no risk of you "picking the wrong GM" to speak with since every single GM on the team will be able to see it, along with the admins. If there's an issue, we'll all be able to discuss it with you and with the staff member(s) it concerns. At least, that way you make sure the report is heard even if it's a specific member of the staff that it's aimed towards. No one's going to throw the report back in your face.

"But that's what I feel will ha-" Stop. Just do it. Take a leap of faith and you'll be helping everyone out in the end. You, the staff, the community, and even the one you're reporting. Silence helps no one.
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It's been a long time since I made a post in this thread, or any thread of this kind. I always get melodramatic, but it's how I express myself.

I've got the wrong avatar for it, but I've got a challenge for those of you who are afraid of speaking to us;

Will you speak up? Submitting reports won't get me angry.

No, what makes me angry? The cowardly apathy that we've all allowed to fester here. The resentful silence we've allowed to build between us. I'm tired of singing that song I linked above. The song I want to sing is Breaking Out.

I've spoken up now. I am calling you out. You are not helping. Getting things sorted out, talking about them man to man (figuratively speaking) will always beat whispering about it. Not reporting offenses is to silently accept them.

@Kage asked why we stuck around: The reason I stick around on this server is because I've got hope for it. I've got hope for this community. I love you all to bits, and I won't keep my mouth shut. Not even to let you feel comfortable about yourselves, or to save face.
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I believe a strong part of what's causing the mass exodus from CotH is that everyone has way too high standards and believe themselves to be messiahs of RP, sitting on their clouds and judging the "lesser" masses simply because they're 'better' in their eyes. They'd rather complain about it and make posts on the forums when they haven't been actively online on the server for several months. They -think- they know what's going on through their friends who "still log in" but half of them don't.

The old-timers sit in whatever number of skype groups they have, talking to other oldtimers about "the good old days" and complaining about the current lack of RP or the quality thereof. Usually this lamenting includes people from their closed RP circle that they RP'd with strictly back in the day. ... ... ... ... ...

How about you log on and RP? With the ones you're chatting / complaining / lamenting with? It's all some of you ever did anyway.

Lowering your standards might help as well. Realising you're -not- a godsend RP'er, every emote and exclamation a golden egg on your part, that everyone on this server started somewhere worse than they are now.

And I'm not going to namedrop or hint at any names, because no. This is to the general masses, "offenders" and non-offenders alike. Because I'm tired of seeing people that think they're "above" people. Sure, you can have dislikes, strong dislikes towards certain people on the server.

....Don't RP with them? Don't, however, use this as an excuse to remain a snob with your nose in the air who "knows what's wrong with the server" without being an active part of it.

I would say something along the lines of "Make do with what you have, or leave." but most seem to have left anyway. (When in actuality they're back here checking every few days / weeks.)

Also, it does not 100% fall into the hands of the GM's to make events and keep this server running with events. Not a year ago we had player driven events everywhere, active storylines and more. All people needed GM's for were playing the game that is idea-ball, tossing it back and forth, and maintaining NPC's if such were needed, open offices, tickets, and levelling their profiles characters, as well as spawning new sites and locations.
Feedback Thread.

Common Sense; Questionable, still there.
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As a note you don't even need the GMs for storylines. You don't need puppeting, spawning, phases. All you need is an idea and imagination. S'how I use to run. Course, make sure it's approved. But once it is? Y'don't need the green to have fun.
(11-10-2013, 05:51 AM)Spiky Wrote: The old-timers sit in whatever number of skype groups they have, talking to other oldtimers about "the good old days" and complaining about the current lack of RP or the quality thereof. Usually this lamenting includes people from their closed RP circle that they RP'd with strictly back in the day. ... ... ... ... ...

:c Why am I never invited to these skype groups?

On a more serious note, I do find it hilarious when some of my old timer friends do this. I came to the realization a couple years ago that, man, back in the old days it was a different breed of wrong with the server. We will always have those happy memories, but to the people that say, "coff is worz den evur now! et iz ttly bad n bak den wuz gr33t." Well, to those people....Give now a chance. You can have just as awesome RP as we did then. We can have rad experiences as long as you are willing to leave the past...in the past!

Moving on...There was something said earlier, about the players not over exaggerating...Or not being over dramatic about stuff. I just want to stop you right there.

Coth is a Roleplay server. The entire reason why we are here is to do theatre...but on the computer. The server is our stage and yes, if you have ever been around any time of theatre geek, oh my god, can you say dramatic? Is it a flaw of ours? Sure. Does it make us awesome? Sure! But does that mean that we do not over exaggerate to get a point across or to make our claims seem more valid? We do. It is okay, it is how drama works out. Does that mean we are always over-dramatic about ish? Nah. But it does happen. One thing that is the end of the world to me, can mean less to you and whatever.

I had another point, but am distracted by vomitting.
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[-] The following 3 users Like Cressy's post:
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…I've seen some crazy things in storylines. Faceless Ones, a worgen spirit with a massive ego, trickster tree spirits, and other things. Some of those were pulled off by a GM. Some weren't. They were fun nonetheless.
Perhaps it is your imperfection that which grants you free will, that allows you to persevere against cosmically calculated odds. You prevailed where the Titans' own perfect creations have failed.

- Algalon, The Observer

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