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Personally, I think CotH's better than it used to be. Short post for short thoughts!




Move him into the sun—
Gently its touch awoke him once,
At home, whispering of fields half-sown.
Always it woke him, even in France,
Until this morning and this snow.
If anything might rouse him now
The kind old sun will know.

Think how it wakes the seeds,—
Woke, once, the clays of a cold star.
Are limbs, so dear-achieved, are sides,
Full-nerved—still warm—too hard to stir?
Was it for this the clay grew tall?
—O what made fatuous sunbeams toil
To break earth’s sleep at all?
[Image: 62675bf4fd.jpg] [Image: 0e7357dcfe.jpg]
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datz becuz you're the old timer every other old timer hates on an u know it, @Cressy
Quote:[8:53AM] Cassius: Xigo is the best guy ever. he doesn't afraid of anything.
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Spoiler:
Dear @Xigo




Also, even when I was a GM, a majority of the stuff I did didn't include npcs or awesome things.
[Image: anigif_mobile_9893b2566588ab845c7985f71769a9f2-7.gif]
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(11-09-2013, 03:47 PM)Xigo Wrote: People gotta chill.

I'm going to break my policy of not getting into coth politics and just say that this is the best and truest comment ever.
[Image: 293D4BE4-7170-4C2A-B8BF-7EA572513EBD.jpg]
Spoiler:
[Image: Lazuri65.png]
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Just too awkward here, man.

Every time I wanna come back, I get reminded of that awkwardness. Going over threads like this remind me how silly things are, and it deters me from ever coming back.
Spoiler:
Video/Audio embedding in signatures is disabled. To enter the URL as link, please use the "amoff" MyCode. [amoff]URL[/amoff]

"What a mess we made, when it all went wrong..."
[-] The following 4 users Like Krent's post:
  • Loxmardin, Rowgen, Psychyn, Roxas65
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Got to agree with that one @Krent . Actually playing (including the RP, which all in all, ain't bad from my perspective.) retail again since my last couple of posts, funny how my mindset changed. See people wandering about the Stormwind streets, can walk up to anyone in a RP hub and find some RP; Found a RP guild with no problem or questions asked, friendly folk. Waiting on the IC interview but pretty sure it won't be a problem either.

No stress, no worries, no silly threads. Just RP.
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I'm not being "that guy" that just pretends to come in and say something important, but really doesn't. I'm actually not going to say anything that hasn't already been said.

Loxmardin Wrote:Silence helps no one.

Xigo Wrote:People gotta chill.

Both these short sentences should be engraved into every brain on CotH. These two things are the single-handed key to getting along; speaking up when there's a problem, but remaining calm and relaxed.

That's all from Valicor. /thumbs up
[Image: 4ab673a110e5324a7acf57e330a6c8eb.jpg]
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  • Rowgen
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I feel like I should elaborate a bit, and I will. First off, I wanna address something that Spiky made in his post, here;
(11-10-2013, 05:51 AM)Spiky Wrote: I believe a strong part of what's causing the mass exodus from CotH is that everyone has way too high standards and believe themselves to be messiahs of RP, sitting on their clouds and judging the "lesser" masses simply because they're 'better' in their eyes. They'd rather complain about it and make posts on the forums when they haven't been actively online on the server for several months. They -think- they know what's going on through their friends who "still log in" but half of them don't.

The old-timers sit in whatever number of skype groups they have, talking to other oldtimers about "the good old days" and complaining about the current lack of RP or the quality thereof. Usually this lamenting includes people from their closed RP circle that they RP'd with strictly back in the day. ... ... ... ... ...

How about you log on and RP? With the ones you're chatting / complaining / lamenting with? It's all some of you ever did anyway.

Lowering your standards might help as well. Realising you're -not- a godsend RP'er, every emote and exclamation a golden egg on your part, that everyone on this server started somewhere worse than they are now.

And I'm not going to namedrop or hint at any names, because no. This is to the general masses, "offenders" and non-offenders alike. Because I'm tired of seeing people that think they're "above" people. Sure, you can have dislikes, strong dislikes towards certain people on the server.

....Don't RP with them? Don't, however, use this as an excuse to remain a snob with your nose in the air who "knows what's wrong with the server" without being an active part of it.

I would say something along the lines of "Make do with what you have, or leave." but most seem to have left anyway. (When in actuality they're back here checking every few days / weeks.)

Also, it does not 100% fall into the hands of the GM's to make events and keep this server running with events. Not a year ago we had player driven events everywhere, active storylines and more. All people needed GM's for were playing the game that is idea-ball, tossing it back and forth, and maintaining NPC's if such were needed, open offices, tickets, and levelling their profiles characters, as well as spawning new sites and locations.

Now, I don't mean to speak for the entire "Old Timer" faction. We are definitely a stratified group, chopped up into various generations and disbanded cliques. There are definitely individuals, and clusters of individuals, who definitely fit Spiky's criticism. Like any grouping of individuals, there in lies a cluster who definitely falls into the category Spiky pointed out. I'll call them the "Rose Colored Nostalgia" types, who spend their time waxin' the good ol' nostalgia, barkin' up about dem good ol' days.

Definitely, that's a thing. Not just in the microcosm of COTH, but also in society in general. You'll always have a group of people (*cough, cough* OMFG LIEK DIS STATUS IF U GREW UP IN DA 90S AND WERE A 90S KID OMG DA 90S WERE DA [email protected]$[email protected]$!$#@@@*cough**hack**hernia**Dial911pleasesomebody) who has an illogical adoration of the past. They look back on everything with rose-tinted goggles, praising antiquated sentiments while denouncing anything modern. I'm not denying that as being a thing, at all.

But, I have to disagree with Spiky's criticism, on a personal and anecdotal level. While I don't deny that the sort of "Rose Colored" nostalgia exists, from my experience, a lot of us "Old Timers" suffer from the exact opposite of what Spiky's post calls attention to.

Summed up; I, and many other "Old Timers," have had a lot of bad experiences on COTH. Terrible experiences. Drama storms, COTHtroversies, the bleeding Roman Senate--just to name a few. We (and by "we," I mean a very small sect of "veterans") have suffered a fair share of bad experiences in the past. Experiences so bad, I don't even want to get into them for fear of opening old wounds and regressing the server for no productive reason.

Even when multiple people tell us "Dude, COTH has totally changed now! Just come back in and RP!" the memories of those bad times stick true. We don't look at the "Good ol' days" as "good," or even "old"--we look at them as a testament to all the bad memories and experiences that drove us away.

In other words, the past isn't something we look fondly on. To the opposite, it's something we remember as being terrible, full of strife, and unnecessarily wasteful.

Because of that, viewing the past in our "Shit Colored" goggles, we are hesitant and completely wary of joining the RP server again. For me, personally, the main barrier I have with coming back to COTH lies in the fact that every time I consider coming back, I remember how terrible things were before.

And I ask myself, "Do I really want to put myself through all that again?"

The isolation. The alienation. The constant feeling of being an outsider. The political game. The climbing of a ladder. The desperate struggle for validation of anonymous peers. The manipulation. The barriers to entry. The hierarchy of those who belong to the privileged and those who do not. The people who can get away with anything vs the people who get chastised for not. The GM's who don't really need to be GM's but are GM's anyway. The constant rebel faction that stupidly fights against the GM team just for the sake of doing so. The people who say that none of these problems exist, because they haven't experienced them. The people who dwell in the problems, and are unwilling to work to resolve them.

Just to name a few.

Do I really want to put myself through all of that again?

Even in the face of multiple people telling me, "lol Krent the server's changed! I swear! Just come back and RP! 8D," I can't rightly believe it.

Because I have a pair of Shit-Colored goggles strapped on my face, and nothing as of late has pried them off.
Spoiler:
Video/Audio embedding in signatures is disabled. To enter the URL as link, please use the "amoff" MyCode. [amoff]URL[/amoff]

"What a mess we made, when it all went wrong..."
[-] The following 9 users Like Krent's post:
  • Maulbane, Cressy, Piken, Rowgen, Roxas65, Kage, Harmonic, Spiky, Etmosril
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I don't know about any of this stuff, although it's interesting. I'm a bit new, still. The last several times I logged on and tried to find or make roleplay, it didn't work. I'll try again in the future. Hopefully the population and roleplay bounces back.
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Though most of what I have to say has probably already been voiced, I'm honestly too lazy to really look through all the replies and maybe reinforcement on whatever the reason is will only show what the deeper roots of the lack of activity is maybeh.

Anywho, I find that one of the most problematic things that people see are a lack of RP even when the server has people. I know that oftentimes, when I log in, I see a lot of people in GMI with no drive to actually start any RP, and stranger still, just one lone player hanging out in any given location, doing nothing and not appearing to try to create any RP.

I think that a sort of laziness is at the root of this problem, and it is one I've been guilty of myself, I'm sad to say. I think people are, for varying reasons, just not fond of starting RP for themselves. They'd rather just jump in on an open one that's already happening. So when the server hits a dead time, even after it recovers and there's an online population actually in game, nobody really does anything because there's no RP already. I think this builds into what Kretol said in the main post, where people see that there's no RP to be had, and log off, which then triggers a massive vicious circle. I truly believe that were people to begin more actively trying to actually start RP, not just look for pre-existing RP, then this terminal chain reaction would be broken.

I've observed it firsthand, coming on, asking if anyone wants to start any RP, and being met with basically no response. People sit in GMI and either socialize or simply go AFK, no longer even paying attention to what's going on around them, and then log off some time later. It's a problem that lies in having a socially accepted OOC hub. Though unfortunately, it's not like we can just up and get rid of it. I think more than anything else, we need to actively encourage people to get off their bums in GMI and start the RP more.

I think that sometimes personal disputes between players that happen and breed a little bit of contempt for the players also has been a problematic factor in the server's decline in activity. It's not as large a problem, so far as I can tell, but from some of the things I have heard across conversations, people seem to try to avoid certain players entirely on the server due to disputes that happened in the past and left a bitter taste in their mouth. And being on a relatively small server where we all seem to know each other in one form or another, that can really hurt the server at its very core. I may be entirely wrong on this, but it seems to be a behavior that I've picked up on from people here and there over the course of my time on the server, and I have to wonder if it happens more often than people actually admit.

Just my two copper, feel free to ignore meh. I'm probably wrong. ^-^
"The most precious thing in life is its uncertainty. Leaving something incomplete makes it interesting and gives one the feeling that there is room for growth."

~Yoshida Kenkō
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(11-10-2013, 05:51 AM)Spiky Wrote: Also, it does not 100% fall into the hands of the GM's to make events and keep this server running with events. Not a year ago we had player driven events everywhere, active storylines and more. All people needed GM's for were playing the game that is idea-ball, tossing it back and forth, and maintaining NPC's if such were needed, open offices, tickets, and levelling their profiles characters, as well as spawning new sites and locations.

This I completely agree with. Relying entirely upon the GMs is really, really silly. However, a GM that isn't active with the community in some form or another looks like they think they're "holier than thou" by avoiding the average serf in places like Teamspeak or the server itself.


(11-10-2013, 05:51 AM)Spiky Wrote: I believe a strong part of what's causing the mass exodus from CotH is that everyone has way too high standards and believe themselves to be messiahs of RP, sitting on their clouds and judging the "lesser" masses simply because they're 'better' in their eyes. They'd rather complain about it and make posts on the forums when they haven't been actively online on the server for several months. They -think- they know what's going on through their friends who "still log in" but half of them don't.

The old-timers sit in whatever number of skype groups they have, talking to other oldtimers about "the good old days" and complaining about the current lack of RP or the quality thereof. Usually this lamenting includes people from their closed RP circle that they RP'd with strictly back in the day. ... ... ... ... ...

How about you log on and RP? With the ones you're chatting / complaining / lamenting with? It's all some of you ever did anyway.

Lowering your standards might help as well. Realising you're -not- a godsend RP'er, every emote and exclamation a golden egg on your part, that everyone on this server started somewhere worse than they are now.

And I'm not going to namedrop or hint at any names, because no. This is to the general masses, "offenders" and non-offenders alike. Because I'm tired of seeing people that think they're "above" people. Sure, you can have dislikes, strong dislikes towards certain people on the server.

....Don't RP with them? Don't, however, use this as an excuse to remain a snob with your nose in the air who "knows what's wrong with the server" without being an active part of it.

I would say something along the lines of "Make do with what you have, or leave." but most seem to have left anyway. (When in actuality they're back here checking every few days / weeks.)

This is a lot harsher than I think of it. I'm not sure if others are thinking of the quality drop (I specifically saw a few months ago) this harshly (or maybe it's just over-exaggerated) - but if they are, it's not a healthy mentality. Additionally, if one's used to RPing in cliques and not with the whole of the community, they'd naturally see no issue with a nosedive in quality. Either way, this rings truer than ever:

(11-09-2013, 09:00 AM)Kage Wrote: Blown out of proportion or not you are -loosing- members. People who have been here for -years- are leaving. If people weren't leaving? I'd agree. But people are -leaving- the server. Don't just tell the people kind enough to let you know why that they are poofing that they're just exaggerating.

Ignoring or putting up with a problem by no means fixes it. Sitting in your house going "Jeeze, it sure is cold!" doesn't make it any warmer. Yeah, you can wait around for someone else to change the termistat but you can't wait for someone else to take the initiative and then complain that it's cold to all your friends. And I really don't want this to come off wrong, but I can't scrape my mind to form these words any better - Spiky, with the stuff you're saying, telling people to lower their standards and suck it up, they may as well go someplace with lower quality standards AS A WHOLE like Prologue. If standards aren't enforced, they drop. That's how standards WORK. A lot of standards need to be enforced by peers, however. That's how the ball rolls. But when peers stop helping and sky off or entirely avoid those that don't satisfy them in RP, it's not going to go anywhere, certainly. (I know I'm going to get a lot of hate for disagreeing with the masses but it really needs to be said by SOMEONE.)

I'll just ride out the waves on this one. I've tried pointing out problems in the past to GMs with other GMs, and it's exploded in my face more than once... or I've been met with an attitude of "Oh that's nice that you have an opinion Rini, go back to work now kay?" I've lost a lot of hope in particular members of the GM team, quite frankly, but I still love the server and the people in it to death, even if they irk me at times or don't satisfy my RP needs. I'm just going to sit back and see how things roll from my little hide-y hole over here.

We don't need radical change. We've never needed radical change. We just need to fix the problems as we see them.
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Here's what happens when we try to enforce something, from a staff point of view.


"OMG GM'S BEING OPPRESSIVE, LIMITING MUH IMAGINATION AMGAWD FKU GMS"

And as individual members of staff we can't make that enforcement alone. Because that'd probably cleave a rift between the staff with the ones who want to outright enforce the quality, and the ones who want to encourage it, on either side of it.

And so, yes. It falls to the people I mentioned sitting somewhere, looking at CotH and complaining about it's quality but not actively doing anything. (None of you have the Force. It won't come to you just be thinking hard enough. Breakfast doesn't fly out the fridge and pantries, onto your plate. You have to actively work for it or at least make an effort. Like everything else.)

I'm aware a few people have been actively trying this, some still are, others lost interest in WoW and didn't want to get through the day RP'ing / keeping stuff rolling for others while they themselves had burnt out on WoW. Which is understandable. What's not, and what really rubs me the wrong way, is the people who complain, nag and moan and do nothing. Like a backseat driver, thinking they know how to do it without adding anything but noise and annoyance to the whole ordeal.
Feedback Thread.

Common Sense; Questionable, still there.
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  • CappnRob
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What problems would you fix, and what would you change?

I'm personally just burnt out on the World of Warcraft setting at the moment, and admittedly most the characters on the server don't strike my fancy. The drug-using naive yet stubborn young adults. The rough and gruff middle-age adventurers. ETC.
Quote:[8:53AM] Cassius: Xigo is the best guy ever. he doesn't afraid of anything.
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I'll probably get called out on this but.. I don't really see.. Many.. People.. Sitting back.. And complaining.. I really don't. The people who do complain? Try. Those who stand around on GMI and do nothing? I don't think I've seen a single one of them complain unless they were trying to fix it. So... I feel like you're slapping a very rude label on a large number of people when in fact its only one or two if there is any.

I work with a lot of the people who sit around 'not doing anything' and do stuff. Try to make things. Don't sit there and say we're not doing anything when we are. We don't, however, get the same support as others. We make ideas, try to start, and people don't seem interested. But the ones who don't seem interested? They don't complain.

That's what I've noticed. It pisses me off that such a label is being slammed on those who complain. Guess what? We tried. We got brushed aside. Our offers for rp weren't interesting enough. Weren't what the masses wanted. But don't you sit there and say people are only sitting about and doing nothing when in fact they are trying.

Also.

Quote:"OMG GM'S BEING OPPRESSIVE, LIMITING MUH IMAGINATION AMGAWD FKU GMS"

Really? Are we children on this server? Preschoolers who can't look past the fact that the GM's are doing what they are -suppose- to do? The people who think like that? Don't. GM's are volunteering their time to try and make the server work for you as best they can.

But the fact that the staff looks at the server like that? Inexcusable. That's insulting that you expect me to throw a tantrum (Like I am now, but hey, that's a line you crossed right there) because you're doing your job? I don't do that. I doubt a single person on this server does that. It's your job. People should respect that, and the staff should respect that we won't act like a bunch of preschoolers.
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I think this thread's getting more heated than anybody intended it to get.




Let's be cool.




Move him into the sun—
Gently its touch awoke him once,
At home, whispering of fields half-sown.
Always it woke him, even in France,
Until this morning and this snow.
If anything might rouse him now
The kind old sun will know.

Think how it wakes the seeds,—
Woke, once, the clays of a cold star.
Are limbs, so dear-achieved, are sides,
Full-nerved—still warm—too hard to stir?
Was it for this the clay grew tall?
—O what made fatuous sunbeams toil
To break earth’s sleep at all?
[Image: 62675bf4fd.jpg] [Image: 0e7357dcfe.jpg]
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