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Inactivity as of late - Feedbacks!
(09-20-2013, 04:23 AM)Nymus Wrote:
(09-20-2013, 04:12 AM)Rini Wrote: "You're not my buddy, guy"

You're not my guy, friend

You're not my friend, buddy

You're not my guy, buddy!
[-] The following 3 users Like Rini's post:
  • Dug, Nymus, Alliicce
(09-20-2013, 04:24 AM)Rini Wrote:
(09-20-2013, 04:23 AM)Nymus Wrote:
(09-20-2013, 04:12 AM)Rini Wrote: "You're not my buddy, guy"

You're not my guy, friend

You're not my friend, buddy

You're not my guy, buddy!

You're not my buddy, frieeeeennnnddddddd
[-] The following 2 users Like Nymus's post:
  • Dug, Alliicce
The economy thing. With each time it's been brought up, and tried, it failed. Why? Because you have the people who're -realistic- about their character's income and wealth, and then we have the "I am rich as all hell bro, I got all the money because thats what I do, hawhawhaw" - Okay, FARMER John.

Over half the playerbase did this. And that punks the rest who follow the IC currency system. They only go by the coins represented by the tokens. "So, I have.. Five tokens, okay, I'm not that rich." And then we have Sir "I AM STACKED" who's a farmer but somehow manages to pay one to two gold for a drink (Which is just a show off emote, isn't it? No drink is worth one damn gold.) So yeah, IC currencies don't work because there'll always be people who completely disregard it.

Sure, we gave people tokens as a reward from daily quests. What happened? People mailed it to their mains for extra IC money. If this was to work, We'd need a wide show of interest and ACTION on it. Making craftsman guilds / characters, what have you. This could potentially work. Make Sub-forums, maybe called "Craftman's Tier" or whatever, in here people could apply or make their store IC threads and OOC order threads. You place an order OOC'ly, set a time for the RP ect. Then maybe IC currency would have a better start.

It'd make it easier for the Staff as well to reward players, by letting us hand out the IC currency tokens. (With less gold handouts this time. Geez. Everyone got gold for killing five spiders.)

But, why stop just because there's no IC currency? Make the craftsmen, artisans, what have you. Nobody is holding that concept back. If these things existed, it'd make it a lot more feasible and interesting to develop and work with this IC currency that we've tried time and time again.
Feedback Thread.

Common Sense; Questionable, still there.
[-] The following 3 users Like Spiky's post:
  • FlyingSquirrel, Rowgen, Alliicce
I'm a firm believer that the only way an IC economy would work would be to enforce it so everyone uses it. It simply doesn't work if we let people sit it out and RP their economy as they like, which is basically what we've done in the past. People could make the choice to partake in the economy or they could go on with what they were doing before.

This doesn't work. The money you get is absolutely worthless if not everyone's using it. Therefore, implanting some sort of IC economy that's expected to work at all, you would first have to revise the entire server to fit this purpose by balancing an entire economy so all the characters that are profiled as "rich" can still be rich without inflating the entire system. Then, we'd likely have to implant some sort of way to trade coin in a way that prevents, preferrably, peoples' mailing of gold between alts since gold-farming with the daily quests and the character creation itself was far, far too easy. The system broke almost the moment we introduced it to the server.

After that, we would have to establish clear guidelines for what things cost in the world, since people just use their own imaginations and interpretations to decide the costs of various kinds of merchandise these days. Usually based on the OOC prices. So, we really have no clear guideline of what a copper, silver or gold is actually worth. It would be a very huge project, and not everyone on the server are too happy about the idea of an IC economy that's enforced everywhere. It adds an extra level of OOC management to the RP, and people like to be vague about their money.


To elaborate a bit on the OOC area, as well.

I believe that the OOC area brings its positives and negatives. Sure, people log on to mostly just loiter around and not really RP, but at the same time... It's better than people not logging on at all. And it's also good for people who just want to hang out on days when they don't really feel like RPing or don't have the time, but still want to participate in the community. It's also commonly used by people who come on to wait for their friends that they're supposed to RP with. Removing the OOC zone entirely would kick the community surrounding the RP on the server in the gut and sweep it off its feet. Not having an OOC zone only works on servers where the population is large enough that they're always out in the world and ready to RP. CotH doesn't have a community of that size.

And, like Spaks said, forcing people to RP is never a good way to go about it. Then people just won't RP and they'll stop logging on the server altogether. Then, suddenly, there's barely any RP left at all. :P
[-] The following 3 users Like Loxmardin's post:
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School. Getting closer and closer to actually drawing semi-decent. Can't do much about that.
Quote:[8:53AM] Cassius: Xigo is the best guy ever. he doesn't afraid of anything.
[-] The following 1 user Likes Xigo's post:
  • Alliicce
I have been asked to confer a response to this topic on the behalf of a former member of the community who cannot do themselves for reasons soon to become obvious.

Quote:I'd have to say the biggest detriment to my activity is how I'm banned.

...Dark humour aside, while I'm here, I might as well chip in my own two cents.

As with a large portion of CotH, life is beginning to take its toll on my free time, and the setting, while still enjoyable, is one I've fallen out of love with a little, lately. I find myself playing characters in other settings these days. Of course, there is nothing that the administration can feasibly do to solve these problems, nor would I necessarily wish either of them solved. I like learning, and it's naturally to develop an interest in new things, even if the old things remain dear to your heart.

A couple of people--even before now, actually--have mentioned that closed roleplay seems to be hampering their ability to involve themselves. I can appreciate that, and as someone who is primarily involved in closed storylines nowadays, I recognise that I'm partly to blame for that. However, might I suggest that the ones seeking open roleplay... seek it between themselves? If you're one of those regularly asking in LFG or GMI for open roleplay, perhaps you'd benefit from getting together and roleplaying with other such people.

...Or is the problem that folks wish to RP with specific groups or people, and have been rebuffed? I'm just curious.

Edit: Oh, about the OOC zone...

People idling on GM Island is not the problem. It's the symptom of a problem, which I assume is their lack of motivation to roleplay.
[-] The following 5 users Like Delta's post:
  • ImagenAshyun, Geoni, Rowgen, Zarquon, CappnRob
So I've been pretty inactive too. Contrary to what I might have told other people it wasn't due to me favoring retail rp [which I've since dropped from, 'cause -MAN- MoP], or text rp, or me playing Guild Wars 2. I drifted away from CotH for some specific reasons.

First and foremost, I've found the community to be very caustic. This is, admittedly, something of a thing more notable from being a GM. Essentially I was going through some rough periods emotionally for reasons I can't readily communicate, and feeling hated and reviled by an entire server population wasn't aiding matters. Possibly amplified by my depressive state at the time, but the negative mindset towards the GM team was not entirely a conjuration of my mood.

...So once I started feeling better, I just didn't come back. When I tried to I took a look over some pressing matters on the GM side of things and just went 'do I really want to be here anymore?'. And I was unable to come to a conclusive answer for that.

So yeah. That's one. Beyond that there were just a few interpersonal issues with me. Not feeling welcome in the major groups going on, loss of activity from friends, so on, so forth.

I'm back now, kinda. Struggling a bit to bring back my motivation, but uh. We'll see if it works out. I've been asked to build something and I intend on doing it, so there's that.

My thoughts on the stuff posed thus far:

There's been some talk of -forcing- some thing, such as an IC currency system or no OOC zone. The matter is force, and I don't think its conducive to making a more welcoming or enjoyable environment.

If we're to make either of those changes, it has to be something supported. People have to want the change to like the change. This goes beyond 'if they don't like it tell them to leave (which isn't a viable response either way)'. If people don't want or support IC currency, it will fail. If people don't work on a manner of an 'honor system' with the IC currency, it will fail. To elaborate:

Lets say I see a merchant character selling an awesome sword. It's a sword I haven't seen before, and I'd like it! It'd look cool on my character's back. The problem is... money. I don't have much cash, and buying from him will cut it in half. I want my character to be reasonably wealthy and I want to be able to buy stuff or spend as I need. Now, would I really be compelled to go buy a sword from the merchant...

Or just .addrp it? I would wager it's a split. Some people would want to roleplay out that exchange, while others are too fearful of needing the cash at another point. As well, IC currency either requires a lot of honor system for the players, or an unfeasibly strong GM presence. When you buy a drink at a bar, are you going to delete a silver or a few copper from your inventory? Are you going to delete some cash when buying a room for the night IC?

Well, I don't really get anything out of the latter. My character takes a nap, I log off and park him in an inn room. Why would I want to pay silver I've earned ICly for something I won't roleplay out at all?

The matter is, those inn expenses and dining expenditures are actually the most common expense, in real life. People don't drop tons of cash on clothes and shiny toys many times throughout a month. In real life money often goes towards necessities that wouldn't really require a payment to anyone other than an NPC. And 'giving' money to an NPC that won't respond whether you pay it or not isn't a compelling idea. On the other hand though, picture an economy where all people need or want to buy is luxury stuff-- the money kinda... amasses, I would imagine, until a big purchase is made. It wouldn't seem realistic and it'd be easy to become rich in.


OOC zone works much the same. Without support, people will gather in some corner of a map and start talking, or just make groups or raids for OOC discussion. I've never been too supportive of 'total IC' sorts of things. I agree that it's more of a symptom than a cause, even if it can be an annoying symptom when you're trying to find rp.
[-] The following 8 users Like Rigley's post:
  • Loxmardin, ImagenAshyun, c0rzilla, Harmonic, Rowgen, Dae, Altaine, Alliicce
God, please don't force anything. That's just really crappy to do. General consensus is that things shouldn't be forced, but I just want to echo it even further.

Forcing people to go out and RP is bad, why? Because sometimes you need to idle a bit -before- you go out and RP, not only to organize things but to get your bearings before going out. Think of it like... getting ready for a date, or waking your butt up and brushing the crust out of your eyes. Sometimes, you need to prepare an outfit, run around in a circle to do something, or just chat. Taking this away leads to some awkward situations -and- removes the central meeting point for everyone, something that complicates things further rather than helping. Forcing everyone to be IC all the time is just plain unrealistic. It's like saying "You always have to be awake, you always have to pay attention."

Sometimes you can't.

As for IC money... I just hope it never comes back. I hope it never comes back, and is never forced. It's hard enough to manage a character's personality, traits, and the -idea- of wealth, rather than having to try to balance a forced economy that really I want no part of. On a server this small, that would only pigeon hole everyone into using something that only a handful of people want, and for reasons that are -really- just outright unknown to me. Why do we need an economy? Why do we need a representation of IC wealth? We have people that play nobles, commoners, and the poor---do we really need something that says "Oh hey, I have x amount of gold, OH HEY, look, screenshots!". Again, it just comes down to waving around your... ego. Something that's unnecessary, especially if you've got nothing to actually do with your money. Trading it around with other people is as pointless as doing so "ICly", a physical representation doesn't mean -anything- if there's nothing tangible to spend it on.

BASICALLY, echoing a lot of others? Please, no IC money or forced IC. Both would just chase more people away.
[Image: desc_head_freemasons.jpg]

△Move along.△


[-] The following 2 users Like Harmonic's post:
  • Kage, hiddengecko
I'm on the inactive side of active in terms of RP time and the super-active side of active in terms of OOC stuff. I talk to my friends here every day, but I RP maybe... once, twice a week? I'm trying to change that by my own means, like setting up storylines and character opportunities, but I'm not particularly optimistic about the long term. I do my best to facilitate RP, even with people I'd rather not RP with, whenever I do get the chance to start some up, but it's not always successful.

The point I'm trying to make here is that it's me - every sentence started with 'I'. Inactivity has been a topic I've discussed privately for a long time and very passionately, and I'm so thankful it's coming into the spotlight officially.

I'm just going to go ahead and say that I think that no-one RPs because they don't get anything from it. Yes, it's fun, it creates friendships, writing is cool, yeah. But why would we RP on CotH? What's the point, when it doesn't offer anything but a (mostly) well-moderated version of retail? That's not enough to bring people in. The problem is one rooted in the fundamental ethos of the administration - it's a choice that was made that has had its pros and cons over the years, but I think it's time to change. We need to start adding more to the server. I proposed this to the GM team in the meet and greet, but I'll do it again here:

I want to host a thing. I don't really know what to call it, but it'd be about a month long, set in a entire zone, and not an event. Ideally, we'd kit out a whole zone and host something awesome and broad, like a war campaign. Say... the Blood Elves take up the offensive again on Azuremyst Isle, and both the Horde and the Alliance send help respectively. (Credit to Xigo) This creates a huge wealth of roleplay opportunities, and it's not just military; exploration, PvE, PvP, diplomatic, peace promotion... hell, anything. Then we add OOC systems to reward people. RPed out some X, Y or Z (which we'd let players do without moderation)? Tell an event-leader and you'll get points toward a reward - influence with a faction, a new sword, an enchantment on your boots. Little things, but they'd give RP a meaning. What's more, we make it official - Server News posts to announce major happenings, GMs on regularly to hold mini-events and puppet faction NPCs, etc.

Yeah, it's true that the CotH ethos on 'custom lore' (though not really) would have to be broken. But I don't think anyone believes we're on a sustainable set of fundamentals anymore.
[Image: RtK7PiZ.png]
[-] The following 7 users Like Zhaei's post:
  • Xigo, Geoni, Loxmardin, Rowgen, Maulbane, Kage, Alliicce
I can't post much right now, but I'd propose that any major change to the server should be decided by consensus. Giving the players a voice in matters like the IC economy, for instance. I do believe that's obvious, but such decisions should be made by the community as a whole.
[Image: 6RpTZgI.gif]
[-] The following 1 user Likes Rowgen's post:
  • Maulbane
For Roleplayers, Cataclysm is stupid.
Not so much for what it brings; I can deal with a lot of lore twists and turns, and can even deal with the derpy female worgen model. (mostly.)
The thing is, though, Cata is all about "oooh, look, stuff's gonna happen! Stuff's gonna happen! Oh man, a lore figure just did something epic!! Oh, look, other lore stuff just happened!"
Yeah, there are some genuinely neat things like the Delfias or Uldar, but most world events actually just feel stuck in a liminal state of "oh man, you're in battle all srs!!"

Edit: I realize this was a bit strongly worded regarding Cataclysm. I don't find it that bad, neither as a game, nor for what it did to Warcraft lore, I just don't think that these two elements work very well together as an MMO from an IC perspective. In my own personal, perfect world, WoW woulda ended with WotlK, Warcraft 4: the Cataclysm woulda been a thing, then WoW 2 would have been made, picking up the lore torch.
But that's a different rant.

Honestly, I think we should allow a degree of custom lore. Nothing major; we simply don't have the population to enact major faction events. But I do think that we have some really creative people here with ideas that are honestly more interesting for small groups than what Blizz is offering lately. At least, let the GMs re-imagine some lore events to better suit the server's needs and interests.

As for involvement in general, I would like to increase the server population in a way that would not sacrifice anything the server's about at heart.

Also, perhaps we could impliment "dailies"? Perhaps have someone be online for an hour a day or something, and receive a mcguffin of some sort that could be used to purchase character name or appearance change, or used to purchase those cosmetic CMCs I mentioned elsewhere.

(09-20-2013, 10:19 AM)Zhaei Wrote: Then we add OOC systems to reward people. RPed out some X, Y or Z (which we'd let players do without moderation)?

If we do something like this, which I think would be pretty great, can we make sure to include the little things? As a player of generally pacifist characters, there's a lot of emphasis on big and combat events when it comes to IC rewards (and IC gold in the past) and much less about throwing a party, or doing some wandering about Elwynn. All RP is important to foster, after all.
[-] The following 2 users Like Dae's post:
  • Maulbane, Alliicce
A large event you say? Something crazy and completely custom? I believe I made such a thing in my first couple of months here like that. Sure, way out of proportion and I was an idiot and used the wrong words, but.. Perhaps it is indeed time to do something large and drastic. But I will say this. Don't exclude the server as a whole if you plan on doing anything. Oh so long ago I was told that one) we'd probably be getting cataclysm so there's no need to think about custom lore and 2) if we had to, the GMs would handle it. Don't do that. This entire server is a resource of ideas that can be implemented in.

Grant it this was two years ago, but in case that mindset is still around, don't exclude the server as a whole for anything that may or may not happen.
I honestly have nothing to rant about this topic. Everyone has something they DESPISE about this server but I can say I love the server. It's fun and i enjoy being here but the only problem I have is the lack of people online. This is understandable because people have IRL commitments which always come first but seriously, you make it sound like CotH and Cata are the worst things to ever happen to RP.

Just my personal opinion but you make the best with what you have.
“Fairy tales do not tell children that dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children that dragons can be killed.”
— G.K. Chesterton

[Image: tumblr_n9hl98KKPd1r4fnslo1_500.gif]

Have a puppy Ruby and a nice day.
CotH is fun and all, but as the above post says there's a lot of hate and irritation, but I can't say I absolutely love it either. I'd rather not voice my opinions about the community in the thread but there are a lot of issues I have with the server.

IC money?
[Image: jon_pall_sigmarsson_b35428d97635b2e7c405...2df3c3.gif]

[Image: SQ0XvlU.gif]
Quote:If we do something like this, which I think would be pretty great, can we make sure to include the little things? As a player of generally pacifist characters, there's a lot of emphasis on big and combat events when it comes to IC rewards (and IC gold in the past) and much less about throwing a party, or doing some wandering about Elwynn. All RP is important to foster, after all.

The entire goal of my 'thing' is to foster RP that everyone can do. A warzone is just one idea, but it's a good one because there's a hundred and one things you can do with it, most of them not actually involving hitting someone with a stick.
[Image: RtK7PiZ.png]
[-] The following 3 users Like Zhaei's post:
  • Rini, CappnRob, Dae

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