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#61
Agreed, Rigley. Agreed.
[Image: desc_head_freemasons.jpg]

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#62
There seems to be as many reasons and causes for the drop in activity as there are members of CotH. Some of them align and overlap, but I suspect that most people's justification is pretty personal, which is why it might feel like debate on the subject is affecting people on a personal level.

Pinpointing a general feeling is tough, and blaming the actions of other groups of people for the quietness of the server seems silly. It's our choice whether we log in or not. If we choose not to because we feel the quality of roleplay is low, that's our problem, not the problem of the people who are engaging in roleplay we deem sub-par. Those people are under no obligation to seek improvement because their fun is undesirable to others, nor is anyone obliged to roleplay with them, even if that's all there is going on at the moment.

Abstaining is an option. So is hooking up with like-minded people and roleplaying with them.

The fact of the matter is that groups are a lot smaller, now. You are less likely to come across someone whose style of roleplay clashes with your own if you only roleplay amongst friends, so the only moderation and scrutiny most characters come into contact with, nowadays, is found on the profile boards.

In the past, I saw people give helpful tips and pointers in general, party, raid chat, or whispers. Since oldies and newbies mingle infrequently now, there is far less of that going on. What little of it I've seen is usually met with flat disregard. It is hard to teach when folks don't want to learn, though I admire the persistence of those who try anyway, and I luff people who go out of their way to learn and improve.

On the matter of CotH becoming somewhat unfriendly: You might not want to see it, but CotH's general atmosphere hasn't actually changed all that much. I've been here for three years and a bit, and nothing has massively altered in that time. As a server, CotH is better. Could be better still, but it has improved on the past. As a community, we've improved as writers and as people. Nonetheless, to quote, the more things change, the more they stay the same. There were people complaining about the good ol' days the day I joined, so I am pretty sure that's something which is just peculiar to the human psyche. Rose-tinted glasses, or something.

I kinda want more people to stand up and say what they think, regardless of who it might hurt or why. No one should be afraid of making a point just because someone might disagree. You can hold a discussion or a debate without infringing the first rule of the server. And you can believe someone is wrong without thinking less of them as a person.

Anyway, those're the musings of someone who really isn't interested in many aspects of CotH beyond roleplay, writing, and discussion. This is a great place, and there are many great people here, but I didn't sign up to coddle people, nor to be coddled. I'm here for stories.
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#63
Considering that COTH prides itself over its quality, and strives to uphold higher standards than other roleplaying servers (the reason a good majority of people came here in the first place), I don't believe just leaving roleplayers who are unnecessarily hostile or unaware of how out-of-the-setting their roleplay is should go without someone telling them they're either doing it wrong (gently of course) or having some other sort of way to be approached. It may have been an a-ok plan to follow in the past, to let poor quality dwindle out, but with the low server population, it is more prevalent than ever before, and will not fix itself. It feels contradictory to... what is essentially the mission statement of Conquest of the Horde.
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#64
I think we need to decide what exactly CotH's mission statement is. I think it's rather up-in-the-air as to what 'CotH's purpose' is at the moment.
Quote:[8:53AM] Cassius: Xigo is the best guy ever. he doesn't afraid of anything.
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#65
Is it not to create a fun and welcoming role-play environment? Last I heard retail servers are less then adequate when it comes to role-play. Thus Coth.
[Image: dean2s.png]
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#66
1) Foster quality RP (definition of 'quality' is subjective and up to you until I write a two-page document outlining it)
2) Create a friendly and cohesive community around this fostered RP

Those are the two things I think CotH is about. Are they doin' em? That's up to you!

Honestly, I see the problem is with the playerbase. This isn't a criticism, though - I mean the playerbase as a gooey, amorphous blob of people rather than singling people out.

Persons 1 through 10 stop RPing because the holidays have ended and they've got to work/study - then Persons 11 through 15 stop because the aforementioned were their friends, and they were probably only hanging out to RP with them in particular. Person 16 thinks "Wow, there are not many people RPing anymore!" and 17, 18, 19 and 20 agree - they all start logging on less, or only logging on to GM Island and idling. Soon, there's not enough people around to find casual RP available - so the people who do log on are usually already skype friends, RPing their own little thing which is usually closed. Thus, everybody else (let's say it goes up to a hundred) starts to feel that RP's dwindling, when the real issue is that nobody's talking or logging on at the same time - or hit-and-run logging where they stay online for a couple of minutes before going back off.

We've got a skype group and a ventrilo (teamspeak? It's been so long) for a reason, folks!

Of course, there are legitimate concerns people have with the GM team / quality of RP around here, but I don't really see eye-to-eye with them. I think the GM team, while potentially a little aimless, is doing a totally okay job when it comes to running the server - and I think the quality of RP (at least from what I've seen in the past month or so) hasn't deteriorated so far from when I was banned way back when. If it has, I haven't been bumping into the right (wrong?) people - and even then, most of the newbies I've seen are patient, adorable and more than willing to learn (shoutout to @Ogbar and @Drair !). I dunno, I think this is another case of making mountains outta molehills - there's always a bit of a panic mindset when it comes to smaller communities, but I think all we have to do to sort out this problem is just RP more, and maybe iron out some of the inefficiencies with the systems we have on the forum.

Otherwise, I give everything a [Image: thumbs-up-icon.png]!
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#67
Sorry about the 'quality of RP' post. Somehow it blew up to big proportions, but at least it got talked about. Now I have to agree with Delta. We all started pretty newbish. We all started learning the ropes and such. Quality has waxed and waned, but mostly its people learning for the first 4 months of their stay here from the GMs, veterans and other people who generally gave good RP. It's mostly how I learned, especially from Piken, Vrahn, Cressy, Duskwolf and the 2 other people I usually roleplayed with. With that said, nothing needs to be forced really. But mostly people learned from the GMs and they guided their roleplay groups.

Which is why I suggested having visible famous GM characters or 'server lore characters', like Kretol and Grakor used to be, to actually be there with everyone having fun and roleplaying. Nothing's forced, but having GMs as idols really formed much of how I RPed and how it improved (I hope). Generally, the idea of the GMs being there from what I've seen so far isn't so negatively received either.

Apart from that, the only real personal thing that somewhat irked me recently is how a Forgotten One and his tentacles and melting skin-walls didn't faze Stormwind soldiers and how people just joked around in RP like they were watching a cartoon show with LOREBREAKING, TRYING TO BE FUNNY ONE-LINERS and not RPing like being there stuck in a castle that could kill you. Really, Old God minion's tentacles would be fuckin scary, and my dwarf was given flak for being a 'scaredy-cat' apparently. But like I said, good guidance and visibility of GMs would be a great role model for others to follow. I didn't want to stop roleplaying because of that, but instead I'd continue doing my own character's thing.

Also, I do agree that we shouldn't be put off by the other players we come across. Be the start yourself. We shouldn't lose heart logging in the server because you feel quality of RP is bad. That's their problem and if they have a problem with your character, let them bother with it. Create a great character, have them influence the others around you, gain fame OOCly to other players as 'that character'. Start plots, storylines or even events revolving that character, and always have a reason of 'being there' with other characters to have fun with (Except suddenly appearing at another character's secret hideout and killing them LOL). Of course, everyone should listen to suggestions every now and then instead of 'reacting violently', as someone put it.

And I do agree Nymus that some people are put off by custom RP. It's just that a lot more people are put off by Blizz in general and its cartoony way of depicting good guys and bad guys. Heck, the Horde has gotten so much flak that Paladins who eventually find the warlock's lair and kill them like some cartoon villain is the name of the day, leaving out a very uneven playing field for everyone. I'm not saying custom lore is a solution, but expanding on possibilities on lore Blizz has forgotten is a nice idea, even if we don't alter so much of it. Giving the Horde more color, giving the Alliance more variety, giving neutral ideas a throwaround is a great idea and can be expanded on by events; events not necessarily custom, but stuff we just don't see Blizz has made.

As much as people say there's a lot of 'hateful' environment within the server, I'd hate it even more seeing good roleplayers, possible character connections and fun in general, just losing heart in the server. It's a great server then and a great server now, and an even great sandbox to start stories in, make friends (not enemies) and generally have our own world. Not necessarily Blizz's, but our own.
[Image: 2r3hym9.png]
Main Characters:
Riggs Ravenhook - Swarmy Old Goblin Thief and Corporate Nuisance
Gorudo Goldforge - Goldforge Clan Remnant and Ranger
Turic Carsten - Stormwind Regular

http://diethe.deviantart.com/
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#68
I was Xavier in that event, Diethe. Now, I'll say something here, and this is my personal issue and something I was talking about earlier in this thread. That's kind of what I mean when I say people are watching other peoples RP a little too much. Granted, you were in that event but honestly... if people are RPing as unafraid, what's the big deal? Also, what were the lore-breaking one-liners that you saw, because I really didn't see any being there for the whole event.

It just feels like that you can't win lately. Everyone has a problem with something you do, and gives you flak with it, because it doesn't "suit their style". While sure, CoTH needs to figure out what it wants to be... I think that personally, I don't want this place to become super strict -again- like it has gone through fluctuations of being. Basically, there -really- isn't a lot of bad RP on CoTH.

I'll say that again.

There isn't a lot of bad RP on CoTH. We don't have people playing cat girls, or outrageous things. We don't have a lot of lore-breaking items going on... the worst we have is apparent mis-interpretations (Mostly actual disagreements on how NPC's should be handled) of how something/someone should act, when actually we are kind of reaching for straws when it comes to the idea of "quality". It's not that bad. Just, some of us -really- need to define our own standards I think and let people be, instead of constantly trying to police what others enjoy.

Why? Because you can concentrate on having your own fun and letting others have theirs, or kill theirs and wonder why noone is logging on much lately. (During all times. There's probably a few hours through the day where we get a handful on, but it's not often.)

To phrase this another way... we are either open and welcoming, or clammed up and reluctant to let people do things within reason. If we get cat-girls on the server then yes, we've got cause for alarm.
[Image: desc_head_freemasons.jpg]

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#69
Policing a hobby is something we should avoid. It is a hobby, we role-play because we enjoy it. We should care less about what others do and more about what we are doing. What fun we are having.

I have lost the drive to Rp on Coth as of late because of some hostile attitude that I, and my guild, have received. Thus most of us have taken a hiatus for the time being. Why RP on a medium that earns you flak? We would prefer not to keep our RP private, but if all we get is menial dislike we might as well.

I also tend to avoid the forums, for I see this... Hostility that surrounds so many posts. I will not point fingers, but I do want to point out that it is rather annoying. So many posts are shrouded with hidden daggers and immature remarks at numerous people. It drives myself and a few others from a great place to talk about (And with) the server in general. I would love to just talk on here, about anything in particular, but I would prefer to not have 'daggers' thrown at me at every post.

For now that is all I have to say. I hope we can change this server to be a more enjoyable experience both IC when it comes to RP and OOC when it comes to the community.
[Image: dean2s.png]
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#70
I forgot really heh, but its mostly references to real world quotes and stuff. Sort of like an out-of-nowhere skit from Family Guy where Peter tries to be funny referencing some real world reference. Not really a big thing, like I said just a small thing that irks me, and I'm not talking much about quality, but like I said, it should be people roleplaying as their characters, their personalities, strengths and weaknesses, not people roleplaying with online avatars like a Skype session. Now there's a difference, and Xavier pretty much felt like a decent 'I didn't sign up for this shit but alright' mercenary so I had fun fighting the impossible castle with him.

Now that I thought about it, maybe people just need to be more reactive as a guy in WoW instead of a guy behind the screen. Maybe that's the quality of RP we're talking about. And yeah, there isn't too much bad RP anyway, but it did lower a bit and that isn't a problem at all and easily cured.
[Image: 2r3hym9.png]
Main Characters:
Riggs Ravenhook - Swarmy Old Goblin Thief and Corporate Nuisance
Gorudo Goldforge - Goldforge Clan Remnant and Ranger
Turic Carsten - Stormwind Regular

http://diethe.deviantart.com/
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#71
I might be a little late on posting this, but I'll keep it short and sweet.

CotH has always been about keeping true to Blizzard lore and keeping the field static because of past troubles with custom lore, which is and has always been a major turn off for me. It might seem a bit 'gamey', but I always want to see and feel progression with my character. However, the server's policies passively hinder such. There's no more prestige classes, conquest RP is forbidden, most world dynamic events are simply ones that we already know the outcome of. It just feels so controlled and restricted that I've literally taken the majority of my remaining CotH RP and put it in Skype so I didn't have to obey certain rules and tread on others' toes.

I've used the majority of my creative mind to make RP with our limited tools(granted I'm not very creative), and I reached a point where I just found myself bored. Everything feels lackluster, and I was attracted by greener pastures.

But, no doubt I'll return at some point, just not anytime soon.
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#72
(10-05-2013, 12:21 AM)McKnighter Wrote: I might be a little late on posting this, but I'll keep it short and sweet.

CotH has always been about keeping true to Blizzard lore and keeping the field static because of past troubles with custom lore, which is and has always been a major turn off for me. It might seem a bit 'gamey', but I always want to see and feel progression with my character. However, the server's policies passively hinder such. There's no more prestige classes, conquest RP is forbidden, most world dynamic events are simply ones that we already know the outcome of. It just feels so controlled and restricted that I've literally taken the majority of my remaining CotH RP and put it in Skype so I didn't have to obey certain rules and tread on others' toes.

I've used the majority of my creative mind to make RP with our limited tools(granted I'm not very creative), and I reached a point where I just found myself bored. Everything feels lackluster, and I was attracted by greener pastures.

But, no doubt I'll return at some point, just not anytime soon.

Despite being pretty content with things, if I were to voice a grievance it'd be this. Not specifically the big conquest RP stuff, but everything else broached - particularly how sedentary the server's become in terms of world progression. I'd like to gauge how many people agree, because this has come up a lot.




Move him into the sun—
Gently its touch awoke him once,
At home, whispering of fields half-sown.
Always it woke him, even in France,
Until this morning and this snow.
If anything might rouse him now
The kind old sun will know.

Think how it wakes the seeds,—
Woke, once, the clays of a cold star.
Are limbs, so dear-achieved, are sides,
Full-nerved—still warm—too hard to stir?
Was it for this the clay grew tall?
—O what made fatuous sunbeams toil
To break earth’s sleep at all?
[Image: 62675bf4fd.jpg] [Image: 0e7357dcfe.jpg]
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#73
(10-04-2013, 11:30 PM)cartoonkarl Wrote: Policing a hobby is something we should avoid. It is a hobby, we role-play because we enjoy it. We should care less about what others do and more about what we are doing. What fun we are having.

This is where another divide makes itself known, really.

While some might argue that policing the RP kills the fun for some, there are others who avoid RP because there are people who just plain ruin the mood for them by throwing out senseless and extreme concepts that, to them, don't mesh very well with the setting. It doesn't happen too often on CotH, but it has happened. Recently, the way I understand it. The server has always prided itself on quality checks and the fact we do Character Profiles in order to check lore accuracy and make sure that newcomers to the Warcraft setting can get a good idea of what's going down.

That way, it won't completely and utterly destroy the immersion of some of the players. We are playing in the Warcraft setting, after all. Giving too much slack will just make it a mesh of a bunch of different settings. It'd be like someone trying to play Shadowrun in a Dungeons and Dragons game. It doesn't sit well with some of the players and ruins their fun.

But at the same time, other players think we should just keep our hands out of it, or we destroy their fun. When it comes to policing, it's really an either/or situation. Of course, we could always become a little bit more lenient with the policing (we've several examples as to why in pretty recent times). But... Well.

Imagine what would happen if we did take our hands off of things entirely. That'd be a huge turn-off for a lot of people.

EDIT: And let me add that it doesn't have to be something as extreme as cat girls for a concept to not "mesh" with Warcraft.

EDIT2: Also let me add that this isn't defending players policing other players. That is something I definitely agree that we need to hammer down on. I'm all for people giving eachother constructive criticism, but... Not everyone wants that criticism, so if someone's truly having a problem with the way someone else is roleplaying their character; ask first if they'd welcome a bit of constructive criticism. If not, speak with a staff member about it. Don't take matters in your own hands if you can help it. Please, and thank you.
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#74
The reason I stopped coming on is a lack of interest, not from me, but rather, from people I've gotten into long-term friendships with or had desirably decent RPs with just suddenly loose their desire to come on. Or alternatively they decide to leave CoTH, and there's like a 30% chance they can continue Skype RP, and then return to CoTH a while later. It's happened so often I've simply given up on attempting anymore, sure I'll try and hop on for the frequent tavern RP when I'm free and bored, but I no longer see the point in heading on. I could elaborate or rant further, yet it's likely more complicated a problem than it is for me.
Hand me some feedback!
Spoiler:
Quote:I don’t want you to protest,
I don’t want you to riot,
I don’t want you to write to your congressman because I wouldn’t know what to tell you to write.
I don’t know what to do about the depression and
the inflation and the crime in the Streets.
All I know is that first, you’ve got to get mad.

You’ve got to say:
I’m a Human being God damn it !
*MY LIFE HAS VALUE!*
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#75
(10-04-2013, 10:07 PM)Diethe Wrote: Sorry about the 'quality of RP' post. Somehow it blew up to big proportions, but at least it got talked about.

I feel like this is directed towards me, and my post in response to your mention of lower quality in your post. If it's not, no worries! But I didn't feel my post was blown out of proportions, nor do I want anyone to, and I feel like this is kind of off-handedly directed at me. (Again, sorry if I'm reading into this wrong!) Considering how very many people on this thread have complained time after time amongst their friends about the declining quality who are now contradicting themselves in their public posts, I'm slightly confused as to the matters, but I still believe that some action - matter how small - should be taken in terms of helping poorer roleplayers do better with gentle pushes and words of encouragement. If that doesn't work, and they become utterly hostile, it should indeed be taken to the GM team. I'd just like to see how, if any actions are being planned to be taken, things will turn out!
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