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Just a little thought.
#1
I'm aware that there's another post about this, and I don't want to look like I was "copying" from someone else. All I want is to let you know that I'm departing from this server, heading somewhere else. This is not a simple "goodbye" post, since noone got to know me really. I just want to let you know what this server looks like to my eyes.

First of all, lovely setup, it's probably the best organized RP server out there, and I'm sure it'll be even better once you implement the special class titles. Plus, the server background is just lovely. I also appreciated events such as the Stormwind siege by the scourge, even though I couldn't really do anything about it IC.

Bad sides...
I'll copy textually, this time, what the other posted said, because it really gives the idea. "You are closed in your bubble". You get your RP, your events and such, and never think about doing something for those "newcomers". That's just fine by me, but I've realized it only after some days I'm playing (Hmm, I'd say around a week). Peoples are barely answering me ingame, and I felt like I was out-of-place. The global chat channel is barely used, since you know eachother well and can simply whisper to people. It felt like this is your world where you belong to, and even if I'd love to be part of it, I'm out. No matter what.

Something I'd like to add, which the other posted haven't said, is that GM's here have this tendency on going kinda.. hard.. on things. I've been reading all the stickies and a massive amount of posts, and I'm not surprised that you have problems with players "rumoring" about your behaviour. My humble, and also surely useless, suggestion is to soften a bit on things. It's a game, and everything can be solved politely.

I didn't want to sound rude or whatever, I'm just typing down my thoughts. I'll come and check the situation someday, but I'm almost sure that it won't be any better. Heh, miracles may happen though. Meanwhile, I wish you the best.
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#2
Well, I´m not going to address this much, there´s people who´re better at it than me.

I do agree that GMs can go pretty hard on somethings, I´m not sure if I agree if it is too hard though. It really depends on the situation, if you, like many others, refer to the level restrictions and such I can say that they are there for a good reason. If you just mean in general, well, I must honestly say that one week feels like a little short time to have acessed the situation properly.

About the bubble, well, here´s something that really grinds my gear (anyone got that one?); The talk about it, I didn´t think we had a bubbly-environment (not sure if I still belive it) but after the post I´ve tried, more so than before, to seek out those newbies and role-play with them. However, I tend to seek those that are away from cities, the adventurers, mercs, travellers and traders. People that will, hopefully, have a similar taste when it comes to RP as me. The dangerous, life-threatening adventure-kind! Or, if possible, some good ol´ plots and schemes. This means that the new people who run to the city to find their RP will go through the net, add time-zones and RL to that and we have some holes.

Now, how do we fill these holes? Should I devote more time to the game? Role-play in cities more?

To be frank, I´m not going to, I spend a lot of time on the game as it is and RP in a style/setting I don´t like? No, it´s not an option!

What is however is that players help, like you, instead of leaving you could help us. Any player can!

And about the globalchat, I hope and believe that it is because people are too busy role-playing to be having a lot of unrelated chattering going on. Otherwise if you want more posts in the chatbox, well, I´d suggest joining the BarrensChat, it usually have a heavy traffic.
All makt åt Tengil, vår befriare!

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#3
(I'm still lurking about 'cause I'm interested in what you think about it)

Quote:I do agree that GMs can go pretty hard on somethings, I´m not sure if I agree if it is too hard though. It really depends on the situation, if you, like many others, refer to the level restrictions and such I can say that they are there for a good reason. If you just mean in general, well, I must honestly say that one week feels like a little short time to have acessed the situation properly.

Level restriction? I find them pretty much appropiate, and I can also understand the delay it takes to accept profiles. I was referring to the harsh answers they give away quite easily, and the not-so "warm and welcoming" behaviour they should at least try to create. Not saying that they have to let everyone do what he/she wants, but act politely.
Maybe it's just me, but I'd be almost afraid to contact a GM on this server.

*About the whole bubble thing I'm not going to copy here*

I think that newcomers need some sort of occasion to enter in the server environment. For example few events "dedicated" to them, now I can't come up with anything serious (And academy for rookies led by gm's or experienced players maybe? Just throwing it.), but something like that would -surely- help their whole future relations with other players. They will get to know eachother's char, and make friends between the already experienced-players. With the actual system that you use, you actually need an huge amount of luck and of persistence, right because of those holes you mentioned. But it's very stressing and unmotivating.

Quote:And about the globalchat, I hope and believe that it is because people are too busy role-playing to be having a lot of unrelated chattering going on. Otherwise if you want more posts in the chatbox, well, I´d suggest joining the BarrensChat, it usually have a heavy traffic.

I don't like being a whiner. Let's say that I want to hope that you're right. *Smiles*
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#4
Well, I'm sorry to hear you don't like this server, but there are good reasons for most of the things you mentioned.

If you're referring to the responses you get when asking questions about the wiki and whatnot, then yes:
The GMs are hard, because they want to make sure we have the kind of community we like, that spend time checking over things, and aren't too lazy to read the wiki, look at the stickies etc. Though I can agree that SOME can be a little TOO hard, I had similar problems in my first week, all the stuff that's compulsary is a little hard to take in, it's a lot to remember, but as these things are referenced, just have another look, I did, and I understand most of what's going on now. Though I do still forget some things, but when a GM mentions it to me, or someone else, I just take a moment to minimise the game and take a look, believe me, it helps!

And as for the being a noobie thing, I do agree somewhat, people are always nervous around a new face, they're not sure what to expect. I had the same thing yesterday when I started to RP and talk on a character no-one had noticed before, but just persevere, and be nice, try to add structured points into the conversation, and I'm sure you'll start to get noticed, and people will be more reassured.

That's what I have to say,
Cheers,
KC
[Image: badge.jpg]
Cry Havoc! And let slip the Dogs of War!
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#5
BlackMinistrel Wrote:I was referring to the harsh answers they give away quite easily, and the not-so "warm and welcoming" behaviour they should at least try to create. Not saying that they have to let everyone do what he/she wants, but act politely.
Maybe it's just me, but I'd be almost afraid to contact a GM on this server.

This has been discussed a lot, actually. If you are patient, calm, and understanding with the GMs, they will extend the same to you. We aren't mean people, and we don't get a kick out of reprimanding people. If we have to reprimand someone, it's a very unpleasant experience for us. As Nostra said, one week isn't much to go on. We are currently dealing with the aftermath of a server population boom, a few large cases of OOC drama, and a lot of off-server stuff, too. We're a little frazzled.

I'd also like to apologize for possibly appearing intimidating, personally. I have a way of writing/speaking that is, compared to the usual standard of the internet, overly formal. I know that because of that, I can come off as way too serious. I just refuse to add smilies to everything to "lighten it up".

If you feel that a particular GM has treated you poorly, you may address the issue to myself or Kretol.

Quote:I think that newcomers need some sort of occasion to enter in the server environment. For example few events "dedicated" to them, now I can't come up with anything serious (And academy for rookies led by gm's or experienced players maybe? Just throwing it.), but something like that would -surely- help their whole future relations with other players. They will get to know eachother's char, and make friends between the already experienced-players. With the actual system that you use, you actually need an huge amount of luck and of persistence, right because of those holes you mentioned. But it's very stressing and unmotivating.

I'm sorry you feel that way about the community. It's too large for everyone to meet everyone, and demanding that all new players go to an "academy" would likely offend some players and disrupt some character's stories or personalities. An event of any type is also a HUGE undertaking for the GMs, and to have one every time a new player joins would be absolutely monstrous. I'll also point out that on the forums we have some players who do an excellent job of welcoming everyone who joins. Hawk and Aeonar spring to mind.

That said, if you are "still lurking", then perhaps you care enough about the server to stick around and work with the idea of some sort of welcoming service with input from other players and GMs. We have taken feasible ideas from players and implemented them before. But again, you would need to stick around for more than a week to see that.

In any case, I wish you the best of luck in your RP adventures here or elsewhere.
[Image: Q1-1.png]

"We are here on earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different."
~Kurt Vonnegut
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#6
Quote:I'm sorry you feel that way about the community. It's too large for everyone to meet everyone, and demanding that all new players go to an "academy" would likely offend some players and disrupt some character's stories or personalities. An event of any type is also a HUGE undertaking for the GMs, and to have one every time a new player joins would be absolutely monstrous. I'll also point out that on the forums we have some players who do an excellent job of welcoming everyone who joins. Hawk and Aeonar spring to mind.

The academy was just an idea that popped out in my mind while typing my post, there can be many more things which can be more "flexible" for all the chars. And I didn't say enforce, that would be terrible. Just an option.

Little edit to make my idea more complete: I don't think you'd have problems with overpopulation if an event like that occurs. I don't see *that* many introducing posts on the forum. Plus, I don't mean to offend anyone who welcomed me (Hawk and Aeonar did.), but even though it's nice to hear, a simple post like "Hi and welcome" sent to every new one surely isn't enough. That's why I thought about some sort of event (Weekly maybe).

Quote:That said, if you are "still lurking", then perhaps you care enough about the server to stick around and work with the idea of some sort of welcoming service with input from other players and GMs.

You are so right. This server is just too good to be left here. I'm not playing, but I'm still here on the forums. And now the last thing I want is to log in and see something like "Oh poor you let's RP" thingies. So I'm planning to sit here on this post until I see an opportunity as a normal newcomer to get into the community.

I understand that you GM's have probably better things to care about, and I see you're working hard (My whining was about the behaviour, surely not about the work!), but think about it. Unless you want to keep your community as it is, which is something I can understand. But you'd already have closed it to the public, I guess.
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#7
I'm sorry that you feel that you have to leave. I do see what you mean when it comes to those people that roleplay in their bubbles, and somewhat exclude others from RP. However, I will say this, if you were to ask for RP from me, I've -never- said no to anyone. I'm always up for it here, and I love to RP with new people.

As for the GM strictness part, yes, we are pretty strict. The reasoning behind this is pretty simple; people walk all over us and take advantage of our good will. Yes, I'm absolutely serious. For some reason, people see us as "The Man", and when we try to be nice, they take it somewhat, too far. All of us GMs have about a thousand and a half stories of people trying to take advantage of our good will.

Does this mean that we are faceless? Heck no. I'm actually, *shock* a nice guy that loves to joke with people, but I do that kinda stuff when I'm comfortable. Lately, the crowd here is one that I'm not too comfortable with. I do feel a bit of a clique restriction as well, honestly.

Does that mean that you should avoid us? I certainly hope not. I mean really, why are you guys scared of us? Look at it in truth, really. If you're afraid that you are doing something wrong, and that if you talk to us GMs, that it will call attention to that? Could you be actually doing something wrong? We try to help people as much as we can, but for four active GMs, that's a pretty big plate we have. And, honestly, a majority of the questions that are asked have been asked before, and it's a heck of a lot easier to either refer people to an area where it is already answered, than to take the time needed to explain everything needed.

When we ask you things on here, we are not being anal. When we boot you, it's not because we hate you. We are tasked with doing somethings on here that keep this place from being a mess.

I want you guys to ask yourselves a question. What would happen if we did "lighten up", and didn't handle situations?
[Image: desc_head_freemasons.jpg]

△Move along.△


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#8
To add my own thoughts...I do have to agree with some measures of BlackMinistrel's post.

The first thing I have noticed is that I often feel...less than welcomed by GM's in some cases. I also tend to dislike being silenced swiftly with a "Do not argue." tossed in my direction. It feels as though my opinion has become somewhat lessened suddenly, when all I had was a rather simple and polite question. I understand that arguements with GM's is something to be avoided fiercely, and I never intend to start an arguement with anything past a simple question. Then again, perhaps that's my own, selfish player reasoning. I can understand that you want to not appear soft and easy to take advantage of, but there are ways to do that without feeling entirely unapproachable and mildly hostile.

The second point! I do feel RP is sometimes clique-y, and I've been trying to overcome that honestly. With this new attack on Stormwind, I'm trying to include every refugee and character that I possibly can to attempt to help people mingle and understand one another. I know fostering RP and an open community can be a hard thing, but I'm absolutely willing to try.

Also, a more specific comment...nice job with this, Alis. It's a very good way to get people the hell out of Stormwind and out into the world, so they can actually add in some character depth and new interactions. Let me know if there's anything I can do OOC'ly or IC'ly to help!

After saying all that, I really do love this server to death and the people within it. I've had immeasurable amounts of fun here and made quite a few friends, and I have absolutely no intention of leaving it or ruining it in any fashion for myself and others. Only my comments and observations!
#9
I´m not the only one to thank, Rensin, the zombiefier and Qaza, the monster maker are to thank for Stormwind´s make over, though I think there are more appropriate threads than this to throw praiser over them, jsut do we don´t derail the topic.

Anyay, the no argument stuff, it doesn´t mean that you can´t come with reasonable questions. What it means is that if a GM has come to a final decision, then there´s no point to start an arguement about it. Better then to take a break, think about what happened, what was said etc and then send a PM to Qaza or Kretol, if you feel that you´ve been wronged or something similar.

I´m gonna take the chance to say this, again, the best way to break (into?) cliques is to RP. There are the people that stay in cities, no matter what, that will be hard for certain players to reach (large amount in Ironforge can force horde players to be alone) but then, I´m here! And I know there are others that play only/mainly Horde. Well, heh, most GMs does actually. And I know that several of them hordies are roaming around. Know that when I see/know that there´s a guy IC near a place I either can go to IC or where there NPCs I can temporarely control, I will. To RP. I´ve seen a few good role-players the last days that I likely will vouch for, when I´ve seen some more, I try not to vouch after the first interaction since that can easily lead to the induction of seemingly fine role-players that instead are destructive.

To break a clique and spread the RP, RP.
Alone in Durotar and see a large amount of players in Stormwind? ask if there isn´t anyone interested in some RP exchange in Booty Bay or Ratchet (two very lovely RP spots that should be used more often) or perhaps if their characters might think of an expidition to some horde controled area, or maybe your character could bump into theirs in, say, Elwynn? Different characters have different reasons to go to certain places, some only stay in a small area, others roam the worlds. I suggest having characters of both types to ensure that RP is always to be had.

Again, if you think our welcoming is lacking, throw your ideas at us, we´ll at least consider them. Also, if you see new players don´t hesitate to give them a welcome, here and in-game. Offer advise or tips about great guides (the Newbie Survival guide is great example), ask if they´d like an RP scene and work out where both could go to raise the chance to bump into each other etc.


Man, I´ll stop my blabbering now.
All makt åt Tengil, vår befriare!

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#10
For some reasons, this post became sort of... How do you call it? Rumormongering thread against GM's.

Well, it's from a day or so that I'm looking for another private RP server, and it's useless to act like an hypocrit. I like this server way more than the others. Or well, to better say, I like the.. "Idea of getting into RP in this server" .

I do appreciate that my topic hasn't been ignored, specially by GM's. I guess I will just do another attempt by following your suggestions. I hope I will poke the bubble strongly enough to open it and get inside.

And, as a sidenote. My newcomers-event suggestion still holds. Obviously.
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#11
I don't think it's so much of a rumormongering thread as a thread of concerns. :P But hey, come in-game and find me on Silverian. I promise I will get you involved in RP, with me at the least!




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