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Lore Death
#1
I have a question, for all the folks out there, what do -you- think about Bliizard and their lore, and obvious killings of lore. What are some suggestions on how it could be made better? And if Custom Lore would help any? I know they kill off -alot- of important figures for the fun of it, and it's usually by 'five unnamed adventurers', which is -really- stupid. It kills off alot.

What are your thoughts on it, what has Blizzard made -you- think about Lore?

Death List;

Edwin Vancleef
'Who becomes Leader of the Defias?'
Kael'thas
'Who lead's the remnants of Kael's forces, are they cured, is Quel'danas emptied of evil?'
Varimathras(Assumed)
'Is he really dead?'
Illidan
'Who becomes lord of his forces, who owns Black Citadel now? Why hasn't Maeiv returned to the new world tree after her release? Why hasn't Akama made any moves?'
Putress
'Who becomes Grand-Apothecary?'
Varok Saurfang Jr.
'Who replaces him as leader of the Kor'Kron in Northrend?'
Bolvar Fordragon
'Who is Regent-lord, and what really happened to him?'

Some of these havn't been killed by random adventurer's, some of them had good reasons to die, but that's alot of important characters wasted. /nod
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#2
Just gonna note that Putress wasn´t the leader of the RAS, Grand Apothercary was just another title, high up sure, but not the number one leader (in the case there wouldn´t have been another Grand Apothecary in Northrend). The leaders of the RAS are; Master Apothecary Faranell, Master Apothecary Oni-jus and Master Apothecary Brightflame Masjenal who each lead on branch of the Society.

Oh, and I don´t think what they do here is killing of lore, rather clear signs of progression, however such things as bringing back characters after claiming that they´ve been killed (Muradin, Mal´Ganis, Cho´Gall etc) makes me go a bit... "Meh".


But I can understand why they brought back Cho´Gall, he was awesome after all.
All makt åt Tengil, vår befriare!

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#3
But of course, but somebody would replace him for one reason or another, and what are his motives and such, I'd like to know why the others died more then him, but he still got beheaded.

The thing that really messed with my head, was Illidan's death, He died by -random- people that are unknown, helped by Akama and Maeiv, yet Maeiv hasn't returned to the Night Elves yet, and Akama hasn't done much.

It would be like, The Lich King dying, because he captured Bolvar and Kel'thuzad betrayed him, and killed him when the next expansion came out.
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#4
I ultimately stopped caring about the lore characters when Blizzard showed the apparent disregard of them, by ruining the overall sanctity of their lore so they could profit by selling game content. Nothing strikes me like a greater kick in the teeth than watching these key figures evolve by playing the Warcraft games and reading the novels that they put out, just to see an anti-climactic end: like getting killed by 25 capslock-riding asshats that will simply go "lol lore". It's seeing that overall decade-long investment (financial and emotional) be tumbled down as an empty premise because Blizzard decided that they no longer care about storytelling; instead pandering to the most generic player-base imaginable after their inductions of retcons and space Paladins.

With that realization, I make a conscious effort to make no mention or any association with the lore characters in the game. (Aside from it being against good taste to do so anyway.)
[corners=forumbg forumbg-table][table=tablebg table1][thead][tr=0][th=4]Character Information[/th][/tr][/thead][tbody][tr=bg1][td=1,]Name[/td][td=1,]Affiliation[/td][td=1,]Status[/td][td=1,]Title[/td][/tr]
[tr=bg2][td=1,]Ivy Killinger[/td][td=1,]The Lodestone Company[/td][td=1,]Inebriated[/td][td=1,]Drunken Fightin' Wench[/td][/tr]
[tr=bg2][td=1,]Uulari[/td][td=1,][/td][td=1,]Alive[/td][td=1,]Seer[/td][/tr]
[tr=bg2][td=1,]Vyrsallia Scythefall[/td][td=1,][/td][td=1,]Alive[/td][td=1,]Guttersnipe and Ne'erdowell[/td][/tr][/tbody][/table][/corners]
[Image: badge.jpg]
I'm a Shaman? Really? Huh.
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#5
Nostra Wrote:Oh, and I don´t think what they do here is killing of lore, rather clear signs of progression, however such things as bringing back characters after claiming that they´ve been killed (Muradin, Mal´Ganis, Cho´Gall etc) makes me go a bit... "Meh".

Mal'ganis is pretty much legit though, considering we already established that Nathrezim can't really die. Every single one of them that dies comes back again, they seem to regenerate eventually, much like vampires in more classic lore. (Which Nathrezim are obviously based on.)
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#6
I think only the ones who have been killed by key figures are dead we are a private server we can decide not to follow some of the things Blizzard has done.. Some BUT not all of the people who have died are dead in my mind.
[Image: classic-76561197997915481.png]
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#7
I was very surprised at the first sight of Malygos, killable in the new dungeon. I mean really blizzard? The dragon aspect of magic along with all of his followers all being killed by 5 and/or 25 unnamed adventurers?
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#8
I'd think that people who go into 25 man raid dungeons are of hero-quality. Many quest lines you go through make your character to seem like some hero of the Alliance and probably widely known by most. Maybe ICly your character isn't, but in retail, if you've done the quests, you're character is OOCly at least.

I've noticed this when going through places like the Argent Vanguard, people thank me for saving their place and all. These famous Lore characters like Tirion don't recruit the help of just anyone, you know. You gain quite the reputation questing through Azeroth and the OutlandsYou are the new hero that Azeroth need. That's how the WoW system is built, in my eyes. It just doesn't work well in tight-knit RP communities such as this.
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#9
Lore characters were not meant to be killed by random people period... Illidan's death makes sense because it says Maive and Akama did it.
[Image: classic-76561197997915481.png]
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#10
But you're character on retail aren't unknown. People screamed my name when I killed Onyxia. People thank me when I wonder around Argent Vanguard for saving them. We aren't nobodies.

On this server we're nobodies though, seeing as we've never done any of that.
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#11
The whole relationship between your character and the game world is kinda touchy. There -are- Heroes out there other than the names you've seen in Warcraft 3 or read on WoWwiki or something. You can't deny that, but I am sure that Blizzard cut more than enough corners to try and force-fit the mess that we have today. I want to remind you all that Role-play is in many ways Fan-fiction, and under certain circumstances and settings, I think it would be fine to say "Yeah, I was there when that happened." Don't take it outta proportion like "Oh, I murdered Illidan with my buds the other day." But if you said something like- "I was in a raid on Moonbrook, we lost men, but I did it for my country." I think it slides fairly well if you know what your talking about.
ಠ_ಠ : Like Fo Fi Cops.
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#12
Then another thing would be, are we saying all of those on the list are dead ICly? Can the GM's flex it to keep some of them alive? Would we be able to give some input on it? What ones would we like to keep?

I personally think all orcs should live. /nod :)

But Illidan, he's a major lore figure, and I doubt 5, nor twenty five 'heroes' from retail would kill him in an IC setting, he's only been bested by a few.
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#13
Tales23 Wrote:Lore characters were not meant to be killed by random people period... Illidan's death makes sense because it says Maive and Akama did it.

The problem is that neither Maiev nor Akama have done anything in the year or so since then. Blizzard only focuses on one area at a time for their lore, just enough to do the one expansion.
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#14
ulteo29 Wrote:The problem is that neither Maiev nor Akama have done anything in the year or so since then. Blizzard only focuses on one area at a time for their lore, just enough to do the one expansion.

That is sadly true. Although I have only been on this server for 24 hours, let me assure you I have been around in world of warcraft a very long time as I have been playing it before its' release. And with every patch there comes some gut wrenching sadness to go with their "progression". For example in the past three years, we witnessed the Amani Trolls fighting back (A slight against Lore); The launch of the Burning Crusade (Went well all together for the most part aside from the Space Goat/ Davey Jones Character Models of the Draenei) and the inception of the Lich King. During all this lore and so called lore story progression they forgot about so many zones and historical people not in the game physically.

For example Hyjal, Hyjal was only added in the Caverns of Time as a slight to calm the fan base in fulfillment of their desire to be apart of the background and to stop people from breaking into the zone in game. Another would be Gilneas and the Greymane Wall. Metzen admitted in an interview that with the Great Sea expansion tanking and Vivnedi along with the rest of Blizzard wanting to push WoTLk they simply and conveniently "forgot" about such zones. If you recall Gilneas is the last untouched by the Plague refuge along with Kul Tiras.

But the good thing is since I have come to find you all, I've come to understand that you all have a strong sense of the lore, and a strong will to except and choose what is implemented in our current lore on the server.

End rant, hope I did not scare nor make anyone's eyes bleed in that wall of text.
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#15
Me and Johnwolf have been arguing for weeks now over what could possibly be done to actually 'kill' the Lich King, The only way to do is have The Ashbringer himself fight him we think. No players could ever hope to. This conversation just made me think of it, we think best case scenario, the raid should get wiped purposefully.
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