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MoP Ending Cinematic
#31
I honestly don't quite see all of the hatred for Vol'jin as warchief. *Scratches head*

The trolls were always portrayed as being possibly the closest allies the orcs had, and the Horde isn't just OrcQuest :B While I feel like this ending was a real cop-out, I just don't understand the hate for a non-orc warchief, it seems really silly and... well, racist, especially considering that Vol'jin is a pretty darn good character as a whole.
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#32
I'm not really mad about this. The reason is very simple; I didn't expect any better. *shrug*
[Image: 293D4BE4-7170-4C2A-B8BF-7EA572513EBD.jpg]
Spoiler:
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#33
Didn't Garrosh unleash ancient sealed gods of evil that once enslaved the Pandaren in Mists?

And sort of bring war to Pandaria in the hope he could kill off Anduin? Thus unleashing ancient spirits that get angry if you yourself are angry?

I'd think that's pretty bad.

Anywho, I actually like this cutscene, and am extremely happy they didn't turn Garrosh into that half-sha abomination. And I'm extremely happy that Garrosh lives. To me, this is the perfect way it could have ended as far as the footnotes go, though I agree execution could have been done better as far as the Alliance cutscene goes.

Will be extremely disappointed if we go the route of custom lore just to retcon Blizzard lore we don't like. Will probably leave CotH ASAP if we go down that route.

(09-11-2013, 09:21 PM)Mathias Wrote:
(09-11-2013, 08:40 PM)Grakor456 Wrote: 2. Yo, panda-man, stop being so self-centered. Yeah, Pandaria got wrecked, but saying that you were the race that got hurt the most by Garrosh is...actually kinda laughable.

Southshore, Gilneas, Ashenvale, Theramore, and more are nothing compared to the Vale, Grakor!

How many of these things were Garrosh, again? Theramore definitely. Aaaand Ashenvale was a warzone long before Garrosh, he just kicked it up a notch because HOT DAMN HORDE NEED THAT WOOD. The other two were Sylvannas.

But... really? I know we like to hate on everything Blizzard writes lately, but at least the Horde and Alliance were already WAY into war when that happened. Why would Garrosh ignore Theramore? A human settlement right next to Durotar? That place was doomed.

Pandaren were just sort of chilling when suddenly HORDE AND ALLIANCE ON PANDARIA. AH GAD. ANCIENT SPIRITS AWAKENING. OH GOD. EVIL GOD AWAKENING! ALCOHOL ELEMENTALS AWAKENING! HORDE AND ALLIANCE BRINGING SUPER-MURLOCS AND MONKEYS INTO WAR. WHAT'S GOING OOOON!?
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#34
NO RINI, EVERYTHING HAS TO STAY THE SAME FOREVEEEEER JNDFSNJKLFDSNJKLFDNJKLFDS


http://images.wikia.com/leagueoflegends/...Select.ogg

Vol'jin is fine. I like him, in fact. And everyone would be raging even harder if Thrall was back in power, and who else are they going to put in there? Aggra?

As Kha'zix says, change is good. The Horde's been led by an orc for, what, nine games now?

Something a lot of people continually forget is something I continually remind everyone about when I can muster the effort to enter the Warcraft conversations anymore; it's a game, first and foremost. Hey, it would've been totally awesome for the Alliance to decide to stomp on the Horde right there in Orgrimmar!

Wait, that would've wrecked the game a little, wouldn't it? All faction leaders dying, capital being ruined...huh.

They need to still be at war, though!

But Cata was the war expansion. They're not gonna change the maps again so soon in the next expansion. Economically unsound.

But, but...war!

Nop.jpg.


Regardless of how messed up Pandaria is to due to Garrosh now, wasn't, like, the whole point of the pandas teaching peace/love/harmony so that people actually learned it?

So, Blizz needs a way to end the war, aaaand we have this semi-neutral faction (who the expansion is centered around, by the way; still not sure why people are surprised) that can do juuust that.

If anything, people should be raging about how obvious it is, but it's Warcraft. It's not exactly Game of Thrones-levels of subtlety and intrigue, here. Never has been.

I've kinda started relating WoW to Disney storytelling, in a way. They don't have the time/opportunity to show everything that happens. Disney movies happen in a bit over an hour, usually. Is that enough time to show a developing and convincing love? Well, no. So they rush it, and we nod and go with it (or cry about it being unrealistic, but it's Disney, come on). WoW's an MMO. The player's not going to be able to see every little thing that happens in order to change a character, so sometimes character changes are out of left field. Sure, they could try to focus super hard on one character, but what about all the people that don't like that?

Hard balance. No one's ever going to be completely happy by what they do.

At least they can console themselves with moneeeey.

Though Jaina's still giggle-worthy. I don't mind the direction they took her, I just think it was a bit overdone.

Anywho. Above all has the 'IMO' disclaimer.

And I'd be okay with custom lore, on some levels. Not "let's change all the major plot turning points" levels, though.
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#35
I, for one, support our new Warchief.
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#36
Looking at WoWs story so far, the world is in such a state that it is ending, and it is relatively ugly. One would think desperation would rule the WoW universe along with war exhaustion which would contribute to horrible economical situation everywhere. Blizzard seems to skip that notion and it irritates me. I am having difficulty portraying how is Azeroth sustaining it self. Because all farms are infested with something, all mines are filled with hostile critters. The world is always ending and someone is always trying to destroy it. You'd think you'd have civilian rebelions everywhere in an attempt to stop the wars.
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#37
No use reiterating points: Blizzard's writing isn't as good as it seems it used to be, but I'm glad the trolls are finally rising from the ranks of 'orc sidekick'. The Alliance video could more accurately be described as the human cinematic, though. I suppose the dwarf, gnome, elf, and draenei leaders didn't have anything meaningful to contribute to the situation?
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#38
..It's a game. The farms and caves are not all filled with level 10 quest mobs.

I'd also point out.. When has it ever been tradition that the Horde be led by an orc? Let's see who's been Warchief.. 2 People.
Some tradition there, huh? Thrall and Garrosh. And Garrosh solely because he did well during a time of war and the legacy of his father. Just because Vol'jin is Warchief does not make him Warchief of Orgrimmar. That's not how the title works. It's Warchief of the Horde, not a specific city.
Feedback Thread.

Common Sense; Questionable, still there.
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#39
(09-12-2013, 06:13 AM)Spiky Wrote: ..It's a game. The farms and caves are not all filled with level 10 quest mobs.

Eh true. Still I think there's just too much world devestation. And I'm one of those who looks for realism. But I think I'm looking at the wrong place. WoW is not reknown for realism, it's far from it.
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#40
(09-12-2013, 06:12 AM)Delta Wrote: No use reiterating points: Blizzard's writing isn't as good as it seems it used to be, but I'm glad the trolls are finally rising from the ranks of 'orc sidekick'. The Alliance video could more accurately be described as the human cinematic, though. I suppose the dwarf, gnome, elf, and draenei leaders didn't have anything meaningful to contribute to the situation?

Well these days Wrynn is the only leader that matters.
Quote:[8:53AM] Cassius: Xigo is the best guy ever. he doesn't afraid of anything.
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#41
[Image: your-tears-are-delicious-360x500%5B1%5D.jpg]


But seriously., I actually enjoyed this cinematic. I am glad that Gallywix decided to show up, but I am still peeved that they haven't added in his fat-model yet. And Jaina will be as poorly written as she has been since 2008.

That being said, here are some things I noticed.


1. The Pandaren, in truth, have really suffered more than the other races in the world here. As several others have pointed out, most of the War going on in Cata was a continuation of what was going on during Vanilla. Ashenvale always had a sizeable force of Orcs harvesting an isolated section of the forest for Orgrimmar. Southshore and Hillsbrad were under constant raids from the Forsaken just down the road. And Theramore, a previously neutral contender, just declared it's own status by, and everyone seems to have forgotten this, SEND A MASSIVE ARMY INTO THE SOUTHERN BARRENS AND STONETALON. Sorry for the caps, but I felt it was needed.

Theramore wasn't just some neutral city when it was destroyed. It supported and played host to the many Armies and Supplies coming from Stormwind and then sent it's own force to conquer the Barrens and Stonetalon. ANd besides, Baine warned Jaina of the impending attack. The only casualties in Theramore were soldiers from Theramore, Stormwind, the Night Elves, and even a regiment of Shattered Sun soldiers were sent by A'dal.

2. Garrosh may not have been the worst written character we all want him to be. Yes, there are a few issues here and there, but every character has those.

Let's see he started out as some angsty punk in Nagrand who was terrified of having leadership of the Mag'har. Then Thrall makes him the Warlord in charge of a simply MASSIVE army in Northrend because "yer dad saved the orks, now lets see what you do, kiddo". And even then Garrosh only had a few lines. A few bits and quips with Saurfang as his advisor and mentor during the invasion.

Suddenly, because of the marginal success in Northrend, Thrall makes yet another mistake. Putting some punk with near minimal wartime experience that was thrust upon him... in charge of the ENTIRE HORDE. Now, he did his best to police the Horde. Executing Generals who forsook honor to wipe out villages, berated banshee queens who wanted to plague everything in sight, and was overall trying to do his best for the Horde in their time of need.

Remember, Garrosh is still rather young at this point. Have you ever played a strategy game where you have a vast number of soldiers and resources at your disposal from the beginning? It almost makes you feel like you have the supreme ability to conquer everything near and far. "What does that matter, Thoradin? He had a big army in Northrend, what of it?" Yes, he did. However he also had other generals and warlords present with the same authority as him, not to mention Saurfang was beside him advising him to do this or that.

Garrosh was unprepared for leadership in the long run.

3. Garrosh's sudden corruption.

Okay, this one is tricky, but from actually playing Cataclysm and Mists on retail, I think I got a good grasp on it. Garrosh's corruption was not sudden, if anything it was a slow process that started when he was introduced in BC. The Sins of the Father fall upon the shoulders of the Son. When Garrosh was brought to Orgrimmar he was met with positive responses and negative responses, all directed at his father. Although Grom saved the Horde from Mannorath, don't forget he was also the one that Damned it before the others. Garrosh has always lived with the knowledge that his father was both Savior and Damner of the Orcs. He felt he had to be better than his father in regards of saving the Horde.

He needed to take over the fertile lands that surround Durotar, which if you forget, is a near-barren wasteland almost devoid of life. Thrall built his capital city in the most horrendous of spots. Garrosh had to compensate by waging a war he was certain he could win.

4.Pandaria.

A city can be rebuilt. An army can be recruited. A population can regrow with time. Pandaria has been forever scarred, and not just in the Vale. Wherever the Sha appeared (Jade Forest, Krasarang, Kun Lai, Townlong, Dread Wastes, and the Vale) the corruption spread deep into the land itself. It destroyed the land at best where -minor- Sha showed up. Where the visages of the Sha like Anger, or Fear showed up the land died in all sense of the word. The flora and fauna forever scourged from those areas. And you know what? The Sha showed up in a LOT of areas, the Major ones as well.

Southshore and Hillsbrad may have been plagued, but the disease and chemicals there will wash away with time if given. It may take a hundred years, but it will heal. The Vale of Eternity will forever remain a dead land, which makes it worse because it was the single most holy, most revered, most respected tract of land in Pandaria. It is where Shao Hao gave his life, merged with the land itself, and saved it from the forces of the Burning Legion.


I think we all forget, or just don't even know, about this stuff.

Also, it is just a game guys. No need to get your panties in such a twist.

<3
Do you have what it takes to join the Fighting Blues?
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Will you stand up in defense of the innocent? The weak?
Will you stand up in defense of Justice and the Law?

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#42
(09-12-2013, 05:39 AM)Xigo Wrote: How many of these things were Garrosh, again? Theramore definitely. Aaaand Ashenvale was a warzone long before Garrosh, he just kicked it up a notch because HOT DAMN HORDE NEED THAT WOOD. The other two were Sylvannas.

But... really? I know we like to hate on everything Blizzard writes lately, but at least the Horde and Alliance were already WAY into war when that happened. Why would Garrosh ignore Theramore? A human settlement right next to Durotar? That place was doomed.

Pandaren were just sort of chilling when suddenly HORDE AND ALLIANCE ON PANDARIA. AH GAD. ANCIENT SPIRITS AWAKENING. OH GOD. EVIL GOD AWAKENING! ALCOHOL ELEMENTALS AWAKENING! HORDE AND ALLIANCE BRINGING SUPER-MURLOCS AND MONKEYS INTO WAR. WHAT'S GOING OOOON!?
I'll concede to most of your points. I did put down Southshore because Garrosh basically did nothing about Sylvanas. However, even if he didn't order the plague, he did order the charge into Gilneas that would kick thousands of people out of their home. While Garrosh isn't directly responsible for most things I put down, his crimes against the Alliance (and Horde) are still worse than what the Pandaren had to go through.

(09-12-2013, 08:11 AM)Thoradin Wrote: The Vale of Eternity will forever remain a dead land, which makes it worse because it was the single most holy, most revered, most respected tract of land in Pandaria. It is where Shao Hao gave his life, merged with the land itself, and saved it from the forces of the Burning Legion.

Already being healed.
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#43
I like Vol'jin as warchief, but why would Thrall pass the mantle to him like that?

I mean, ok yes Thrall and Vol'jin are BFFs to the end, and there is noone better to succeed Thrall than Vol'jin probably, but that's the thing- Thrall is still -theeeeere-. And will still be the racial leader of the orcs. Now if Thrall was still busy with shamany things and couldn't work with the Horde and left someone like Saurfang or Nazgrel or Drek'thar in command of the orcs, then I could see Vol'jin making sense as warchief, but as is I can't really fathom why Thrall would step down to Vol'jin if he's still going to be active in politics.

That said, Vol'jin is a cool guy so I'm hoping things will look up from here. Other than that, blah blah blah, Jaina is now Varian, blah blah blah Garrosh wasn't even executed, blah blah.

... personally I want to believe that Varian only stopped Thrall from killing Garrosh just because he wanted a piece of him too :| /hopespot
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#44
On a side note, voljin as new warchief I actually like. I also want to point out that Garrosh is is older (our only slightly younger) then thrall. It would be nice if folks stop claiming he's young. He was an adult at the end if the second war.

[Image: c36335d73555714146b393bce05c4a74.jpg]

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#45
Well, alright. So the Vale is being healed then. Also, Gilneas is an interesting note to bring up Mat.

Garrosh wanted to build an orcish port in Gilneas. Why? Staging ground in the EK. "BUT BUT, THE FORSAKEN". Yeah, the Forsaken. Who are slaughtering innocents by the hundreds, raising them into undeath and forcing them to be cogs in the war machine. If anything, Garrosh wanted to send his own army to EK once Kalimdor was his and his alone so that the Forsaken would not completely massacre everything there.

Remember, just because Garrosh hates the Alliance, doesn't mean he'll want every man, woman, and child of the Alliance put to the sword. He wants to dismantle their governments and armies, kill their leaders, and then rule their lands under one banner. They would be treated as Second-Class citizens at best, but they'd be alive.

Sylvanas would kill every man, woman, and child she could get her cold, dead hands on. She doesn't care and she'd raise them all into undeath, as well as force them against those they called family and friends. It might just be speculation, but Garrosh very well may have had the intentions of saving the inhabitants of EK from Sylvanas, albeit in a more warlike manner without as much green goo and flying BBB
Spoiler:
Big Booty Bitches
raising everyone into undeath.
Do you have what it takes to join the Fighting Blues?
Do you have what it takes to defend your homeland?
Will you stand up in defense of the innocent? The weak?
Will you stand up in defense of Justice and the Law?

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