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MoP Ending Cinematic
#61
To be fair, the Kor'kron aren't to blame. The Kor'Kron are the bodyguards of the Warchief, his own personal force he can trust. Very alike to the Ottoman Janisseries (minus the child kidnapping), in that they are a force loyal tone man, the Sultan, or in this case the Warchief. They follow the order of their Warchief to the letter, regardless of who that Warchief is. If Thrall was doing this, the Kor'Kron would follow his order to the letter and, in fact, they did when he was Warchief.

As for the Dragonmaw, really? Gonna use that against him? The Dragonmaw are just one of several overzealous, bloodthirsty, primal orc clans. The Blackrocks, Shattered Hand, and Laughing Skull are no different. The issue is that for in game purposes, the Dragonmaw were the only clan with actual representation in the Horde. There are no Blackrock NPCs in the Horde, they're there ICly, but not in game.

Just adding that.
Do you have what it takes to join the Fighting Blues?
Do you have what it takes to defend your homeland?
Will you stand up in defense of the innocent? The weak?
Will you stand up in defense of Justice and the Law?

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#62
(09-12-2013, 11:21 AM)JVNemesis Wrote: You're right, that's a good example. It was well-done. Now, however, look at the counterexamples, off the top of my head:

Lion King 1/2, Little Mermaid, Fox and the Hound, Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Cinderella....can't think of anything else, at the moment. It's easy to just pick out one good example and go from there. I could do the same thing with WoW, find one quest that was really well done, but I'm trying to look at it overall.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with these examples, as I feel most of these are perfectly fine movies with clearly spelled out motivations and motivation switches (I can't speak for Lion King 1/2 since I haven't seen it.) The Fox and the Hound is actually especially interesting in this sense, I'm honestly a bit confused why you'd even bring it up. If you want to debate specific movies, I'll do that, but I honestly don't see any of your "counterexamples" as actually being counterexamples. Most of them actually reinforce the point I'm trying to make.

Quote:I suppose I'll just leave it at: show me another MMO where there's even half as much character development or face time for major characters. Show me one where they have the character spotlights and development you want.

Guild Wars.

Quote:He probably meant new Horde, in which case, he's right.

Thrall became warchief because Doomhammer passed the title on to him. It's...kinda silly to just discount them.

Quote:...And, again. Seriously. It's the Kor'kron that's doing all the really bad stuff for Garrosh. The Kor'kron and Zaela's Dragonmaw. There are orcs in the rebellion. Not every orc just sided with Garrosh. I wish people would stop saying that.

They're saying that because that's how Blizzard portrayed the rebellion. I've seen the Darkspear Rebellion quest chain: it's orcs vs. trolls. That's it. You apparently get a few orcs that help you in the raid itself, but they're a minority. Otherwise, Blizzard portrayed the entire arc as "orcs are bad, rest of the Horde is good." Considering the treatment they got in Cataclysm on top of that, I think I'm justified in saying orcs were treated very poorly by these two expansions.
Have you hugged an orc today?
- I am not tech support. Please do not contact me regarding technical issues. -
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#63
This is just a case where you can't really make everyone happy. It's a work of fiction that we as fans don't control, so, when someone writes something different than what we are used to, a lot of us tend to freak out or say it doesn't make sense... when, really, they could do whatever they wanted with the writing. It's always been dramatic, it's always been different... really, it's about like when that one guy killed off Chewbacca in the Star Wars books.

Sometimes, you piss off fans. Sometimes, it really shouldn't matter to the fans. I'm more worried about them killing off everything I love in Game of Thrones than them giving Garrosh a fair trial. *Shrug*
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#64
Quote: Is that enough time to show a developing and convincing love?


This is what I was referring to with the Disney mention, and those movies. Apologies for not specifying again.

Quote: Guild Wars.

I see Guild Wars more as a single player story game that you can go elsewhere for multiplayer modes more than an actual MMO, but fair enough.

Quote: Thrall became warchief because Doomhammer passed the title on to him. It's...kinda silly to just discount them.

Well, Doomhammer gave him the title when it was still just orcs and a few trolls in the Horde, to be fair. So, Thrall became the first Warchief of the orcs, trolls, tauren, and forsaken. Doomhammer wasn't a leader of the new Horde, and shouldn't really be factored in, IMO.

Quote: Orcs


I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree, then. I don't think orcs were that bad off, particularly in Cata. Garrosh is reverting back to the WC1/2 orc type...bad. Which is what they were. The bad guys. Kinda stands to reason that some of them would follow him back to the old ways. I'd bet some of them were a bit bitter about having to be the good guys for a bit.


Either way. Getting a bit far afield of the cinematic discussion, at this point. I'll step back!
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#65
Here's how I see it. The Horde has had a hard time with Orcs as Warchief. You have Thrall, the hippy-orc-Jesus, who really doesn't -want- to fight, and isn't very good as a Warleader... and didn't actually start any fights during his time as Warleader during WoW. With the escalation of fighting in Cata, they needed someone else---handed it to Garrosh, who, was good at war, but obviously blood thirsty and reckless. So, now with him out of the way and -failing-, who are they gonna turn to? Vol'Jin. He's been around for a long time. He knows war, and he's also -compassionate- for his people. Is he an Orc? No, but he's a natural choice rather than some other Orc for the sake of adding Orcs in the role.

It's not like he's a Tauren, Elf, or Forsaken. Trolls are fit to lead the Horde. Sorry, that's my opinion.
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#66
Just a question, hoping not to interfere in any discussion.

How has Jaine become so.. aggresive and hating, of the Horde? Didn't she have a good relationship with Thrall? I would've imagined her to be happy that Garrosh was done and the 'normal' Horde would be back.. but to tell Varian to dismantle the Horde? I think that's unlike her.
"Life is offensive, people; it's brutal, stupid, annoying, dirty, and at the end, ******* pointless. Seriously, folks, you need to get a grip, alright? Relax yourself!" - Foamy

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#67
(09-12-2013, 01:00 PM)Kira13 Wrote: How has Jaine become so.. aggresive and hating, of the Horde? Didn't she have a good relationship with Thrall? I would've imagined her to be happy that Garrosh was done and the 'normal' Horde would be back.. but to tell Varian to dismantle the Horde? I think that's unlike her.

Theramore got nuked, and the radiation messed with her head so much that she wanted to drown Orgrimmar in water elementals. Because Garrosh ordered the nuking of her city, and Thrall approved of Garrosh as Warchief and didn't listen to her when she told him Garrosh was out of control, she isn't on good terms with Thrall anymore.

Then in Mists it was a cycle of I only want to kill Garrosh -> Death to all Horde -> I only want to kill Garrosh -> Death to all Horde -> repeat.
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#68
(09-12-2013, 10:39 AM)Grakor456 Wrote:
(09-12-2013, 04:17 AM)Rini Wrote: I just don't understand the hate for a non-orc warchief, it seems really silly and... well, racist, especially considering that Vol'jin is a pretty darn good character as a whole.

Before we start using politically-charged buzz words, keep in mind that racism between fantasy species and RL racism are very different things. We good there? Yeah? Moving on.

No need to establish this with me, I know perfectly well! I never confused the two. However, racism IS racism, regardless of its medium! :p

Hours later edit: Something I neglected to mention was that I felt your response in the above quoted section was also unnecessarily hostile.
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#69
Filthy speciesists.
Quote:[8:53AM] Cassius: Xigo is the best guy ever. he doesn't afraid of anything.
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#70
As far as conversation goes about these cinematics and writings, I'm sure it's easier to just stick with your own attitude. I personally think dey dun goof'd, but that's just me. I'm sure everybody else here feels a little different shade of like or dislike for these decisions.
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#71
@JVNemesis, the Fox and the Hound is one of the best and most heartbreaking Disney films and I will fite ur faise over it m8 >:V

#putupyourdukes
Your stories will always remain...
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... as will your valiant hearts.
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#72
(09-12-2013, 12:35 PM)Harmonic Wrote: Elf, or Forsaken

The only races unfit to lead the Horde. :x

Edit: DANGIT RENSIN

CHANGIN YER NEEM
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#73
(09-12-2013, 02:41 PM)CappnRob Wrote: @JVNemesis, the Fox and the Hound is one of the best and most heartbreaking Disney films and I will fite ur faise over it m8 >:V

#putupyourdukes

Eh, it's mediocre and overrated.
Quote:[8:53AM] Cassius: Xigo is the best guy ever. he doesn't afraid of anything.
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#74
Okay lads, time for a Nymus Serious Post!

I just watched the videos. Holy crap... okay, has anyone noticed that since Mists, every Orc moves their mouth in a kind of cartoony way - every time they speak, their tusks kind of sway? I just needed to get that out.

Firstly, Varian blocking Thrall's "you just got p0wnd" hammer - why? "You can't decide what to do with him"? That's the worst excuse EVER, Varian. Is it me or has Varian kind of become a Mary Sue, now? He's perfect in every way, best sword hand ever, cannot die, has a floating sword, scars, and a hot girlfriend. I'd much rather prefer it if Varian was never brought back and parts of the Alliance story were based on Anduin instead learning what it is to be a King, making harsh decisions like all the junk that happened WoTLK to Mists, rather than Varian "perfecto" Wrynn giving Tyrande, a thousands of years old woman who has led a faction that literally exudes patience, lessons on patience.

Secondly, the horrible character models. Baine looks so out of place next to the high-res copy Blood Elf models of Lor'themar and Sylvanas. Also Gallywix's engineers have cooked up a new invention - ANTI-GRAVITY HATS. Please, for the love of god, give Tauren a new model!

Thirdly... what the hell is going on now? Varian threatened Vol'jin about not breaking honor... so does that mean every battleground and PvP server has to be shut down? This doesn't make any sense. They've ended the war but fights still exist because player mechanics?

@Grakor456 and @Everyoneelse, we really need to talk about custom server lore. The way things are going right now... I'll be surprised if Thrall doesn't ascend to Titanhood, Varian becomes a badass biker, Vol'jin is the best Warchief since forever, Jaina becomes a raid boss after Varian goes off to become a biker and makes the Alliance into evil killers, (killing for good though because erks err berrrd) Bolvar rises and the Scourge are repainted with a lot of fire, and Argus becomes the new Draenor/Outland and a new portal opens.
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#75
(09-12-2013, 03:46 PM)Nymus Wrote:
(09-12-2013, 12:35 PM)Harmonic Wrote: Elf, or Forsaken

The only races unfit to lead the Horde. :x

Edit: DANGIT RENSIN

CHANGIN YER NEEM

Rensin? Who's that?
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