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Nymus Muses: The Perfect Government
#1
inb4 Politics zomfg delete thread, but this is a really interesting idea I'd like to share with you all.

if you can name where this comes from you get a cookie

Quote:JC Denton: We're now ready to transform the human race. It became clear to me after the defeat of MJ-12 that the old answers to tyranny are inadequate. [...] I'm going to establish the first posthuman civilization, and you're my first citizen. Welcome.

Alex D: Tell me more about this "posthuman civilization."

JC Denton: Before the... disruptions, Helios and I had many months of productive thought. Up to now, all free societies have started with one premise: human nature is cruel, unjust -- a force to be controlled.

Alex D: I follow you so far.

JC Denton: The separation of powers -- from Aristotle to Montesquieu -- is designed purely to thwart the ambitions of individuals. How comical, the West's pride in its vast tangle of agencies, jurisdictions, arcane procedures...

Alex D: What's the alternative?

JC Denton: Address the flaws in human nature. Make all beings truly equal in both body and mind. If you start with minds that are lucid, knowledgable, and emotionally sound, the needs of government change dramatically.

Alex D: How do you control human emotions? Antidepressants? Is that freedom?

JC Denton: Is it freedom when one child is born to poverty, a chance combination of organic materials, while the wealthy child is shaped every day of his life, enhanced genetically, trained, educated, often augmented nanotechnologically?

Alex D: Why not get rid of nanotech and genetic engineering, the technologies that make people different from each other?

JC Denton: Then you go down the path of intolerance, as your friend Billie did. Is human nature perfect? No. Therefore, improvements are to be welcomed, not annihilated in Templar pogroms. As enhanced beings, we can establish a pure democracy that runs on instantaneous input from the electorate.

Alex D: What would this "pure democracy" look like?

JC Denton: The Helios AI has the processing power to handle all governmental functions worldwide, legislative, executive, and judicial. Once every mind has been enhanced and can merge with the AI, attitudes toward major legislation can be processed on a daily or even more frequent basis.

Alex D: You want everyone to be like the Omar and meld themselves together into one huge AI construct?

JC Denton: Helios will communicate, not assimilate. Life will go on as usual.

Alex D: Helios is starting to sound like an enlightened despot.

JC Denton: All governments have power. The benefit of giving this power to a synthetic intellect is that human affairs would no longer need to be ruled by generalities. Helios will have a deep understanding of every person's life and opinions.

Alex D: What if I don't want someone peeking into my mind?

JC Denton: Upon consideration, you'll see that this arrangement is for the best. "General ideas are no proof of the strength, but rather of the insufficiency of the human intellect." The words of Alexis de Tocqueville, an observer of the birth of modern democracy. Though general ideas allow human minds to make judgments quickly, they are necessarily incomplete.

JC Denton: So de Tocqueville noted that an all-knowing mind -- the mind of God, as he conceived it -- would have no need for general ideas. It would understand every individual in detail and at a glance. Incomplete applications of law or justice would be impossible for such a mind.

Alex D: So you see yourself as a god?

JC Denton: I want human affairs to be driven by wisdom. Finding the correct recipe for wisdom has been my project these long years under the ice.

Alex D: You seem to think you've succeeded.

JC Denton: Wisdom must first be human. You must start with what a human sees and feels. But wisdom must also be knowledgeable, logical, and fair to billions of other beings.






Quote:Paul Denton: If you want to even out the social order, you have to change the nature of power itself. Right? And what creates power? Wealth, physical strength, legislation -- maybe -- but none of those is the root principle of power.

Alex D: I’m listening.

Paul Denton: Ability is the ideal that drives the modern state. It's a synonym for one's worth, one's social reach, one's "election," in the Biblical sense, and it's the ideal that needs to be changed if people are to begin living as equals.

Alex D: And you think you can equalize humanity with biomodification?

Paul Denton: The commodification of ability -- tuition, of course, but, increasingly, genetic treatments, cybernetic protocols, now biomods -- has had the side effect of creating a self-perpetuating aristocracy in all advanced societies. When ability becomes a public resource, what will distinguish people will be what they do with it. Intention. Dedication. Integrity. The qualities we would choose as the bedrock of the social order.

Anyone else think this is a really interesting idea?
#2
Idealistic, but there would still be bias and what not. It's one of those things that sound pretty good on paper.

Spoiler:
LIKE 'DEM FILTHY COMMIES. CAPITALISM FOREVAAAH!

[Image: logo_communism1.jpg]

[Image: bald_eagle_head_and_american_flag1.jpg]

Also, Deus Ex.
Quote:[8:53AM] Cassius: Xigo is the best guy ever. he doesn't afraid of anything.
PM
#3
Isn't this uh... flirting the line of discussing politics?

Edit: Aware of the first sentence in your thread, but still!
[Image: desc_head_freemasons.jpg]

△Move along.△


△△
△△△
△△△△

PM
#4
This thread is discussing political theory without a doubt, Harmonic.

The claim that Western governments' separation of powers solely concerns the mitigation of individual ambition is nonsense. Most political philosophers have concerned themselves with tyranny of the majority, minority and individual. (Note the best factual culmination of these philosophies to date: the United States of America).

Substantially, these arguments boil down to a socialistic trans-humanist branch of modern political philosophy. They are sweeping and oppressive policies that would inevitably require world war to commit into reality. Idealism once more produces generalized, nonsensical ideas and plans that inevitably need violence and oppression to create. The irony is thick.

Thanks for the quote. I don't remember where I've seen this before.
PM
#5
TLDR Looks good on paper but think about it.

Inb4allthepoliticallyaggressivepeoplezergrushin
Though, in a meta perspective, I doubt this thread will end up like that. CoTH, for the most part, has people that are respectful with their opinions. Especially in matters such as this, it's strongly more of a philosophical question than political in theory. I doubt this would create an ideologically "perfect" government, unless the expression of opinions were held more anonymously, it simply allows for unrestrained instabilities among "minority" and "majority" populations, which would lead to violence and likely lead said minority populations to a more unified state in order to "defeat" the majority population. But since it analyses minds, it would have to be without "passive" or "I vote against this" since the AI already know their votes. They would have to disagree alternatively, with violence.

I honestly don't see this ideology promoting any sort of "unity" amongst the human race, or whatever sentient populations it would target, on a worldwide basis it would simply promote damage towards minorities of whatever political belief or religious. Do any of you honestly see it ending very peacefully if we suddenly started a worldwide vote on what religion or belief should receive X or be practiced by everyone else or etc.? We've had humans killing each other based on these sorts of disagreements almost since they were brought into existence. And even then, if it attempts to avoid "touchy" subjects, it would be inevitable that there would be political scandals, racism, and it's just flat-out impossible to avoid controversy. This ideal would simply alter and more than likely render it more visible.

I try to speak without bias here and at a third person perspective, humanity's status quo with government is unstable enough as it is. And there is one more flaw I see, exactly, who is representing this central authority? If there's an AI doing it, then there's obviously going to be problems. Humans like to be led by a human, as history often dictates.
Hand me some feedback!
Spoiler:
Quote:I don’t want you to protest,
I don’t want you to riot,
I don’t want you to write to your congressman because I wouldn’t know what to tell you to write.
I don’t know what to do about the depression and
the inflation and the crime in the Streets.
All I know is that first, you’ve got to get mad.

You’ve got to say:
I’m a Human being God damn it !
*MY LIFE HAS VALUE!*
PM
#6
I tried to think of two calm ways to respond to this. Both ended with hostility, and I erased the both of them. Politics is a tricky thing. Me personally? I land more on the Political right-Stay off my property, no government programs that aren't necessary, and especially privacy!* Better yet, let the states decide their own laws according to their own local population's wants and their needs, huh?

*What I do with my sheep is of no concern to you.
[Image: 54079-Dr-Evil-air-quotes-lasers-gif-A6nY.gif]
PM
#7
While it is a neat idea, we do maintain that politics should not be discussed on the forums in any form. It's just too heated of a subject that can cause a flame war. To quote the rule:

Quote:We also request that things like OOC politics and religion not be discussed directly on the server or forums. There are plenty of places to have intelligent conversations about these topics on the internet, and we have no interest in the OOC drama it inevitably breeds. We don't mind if you discuss it elsewhere but leave this baggage at the door when you come to CotH.

So I'll be locking this thread.
PM


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